Winter driving in Snowy states

[tigger19687]

Since Winter is just around the corner, thought a nice discussion on how Winter/SNOW driving is.

My town is Great about doing the roads, but as soon as I hit CONCORD it is a crap shoot.
I still have my big diesel 4x4 truck so I am not worried. If it is snowing out and we are to get a few inches I will take that instead.

Any tips ?
Should I put a little more weight in it, if so where ? I put sand bags in the bed of the pickup, and in the Suburban put 2 as well- just for safe measure .

My trip to work is only 8 miles and I would RATHER take the 'i' as I have a spot in the Garage (truck doesn't even fit)...

 

[PV1]

Mine has done very well. Of course, Pittsburgh probably doesn't get the snow that you would, but even still, icy/slushy roads weren't a problem. Going uphill, if it keeps slipping just enough to enable the traction control, you might be better off to disengage it while climbing (hold down ASC button until the light shows on the dash). Just be careful doing that as now the car could spin around on you. I can post some winter driving videos I took if you'd like.

 

[sandange]

We live in ski/snow hilly country.
The Miev does surprisingly well in the snow.
The batteries are all the weight you will need and the skinny tires bite well in the snow.
The anti skid keeps you going straight.

Worst conditions are
Freezing rain that sticks immediately on your wind shield is a real power drain requiring using full heat & defrost.
Sheer ice with a film of rain on top leaves you with no control no mater what you drive.
Blowing snow can produce Deep snow drifts that can hang up the car.

In the winter I keep traction aides and a small collapsible shovel with me.

 

[tigger19687]

ohh videos would be fun , yes please.

I have a kind of kit that I keep in all my cars. The sand bags double as sand if I need traction and get stuck on ice or even the rubber feet mats.
Blankets, food (granola bars are the best) , drink (juice boxes), extra clothes/gloves/hat/scarf, Breakdown box (jumpers, flare etc), rope (to pull of trees in the road with my truck), matches/candle/can of buffet warmer "chafing fuel', reading material and a bunch of other things I can't think of.

I am lucky that my M-F job with the Trauma Surgeon will call off due to storm/bad snow. But I am always on call for the ER... so those days I will take the truck if I actually get called.... But it sucks as I HAVE to shovel out the truck just in case. I have yet to have a called off day and NOT shovel out the truck. SO can't wait to have a garage

 

[Don]

Any tips ?
Should I put a little more weight in it, if so where ?

5 pounds under the hood in the form of a diesel heater would be the best weight you could add if you live where it snows . . . .

Don

 

[jsantala]

That's what our typical winter driving conditions look like and everybody goes about driving as usual. Just to put things into perspective.

There's no need to add any weight or anything. You just need proper winter tyres. The best ones in our sizes are Continental Conti Viking Contact 6. Bridgestone Blizzak WS-60 should be the next best option. These are what we refer to as "Scandinavian winter tyres". Toyo Observe GSi-5 is also branded as one, but I don't have any test data available on them. Besides they are more expensive.

On previous non-electric vehicles I've opted for Nokian studded winter tyres, but they are not available in the sizes required.

 

[tigger19687]

Ahh yes, that is what it looks like here. But last Winter we got 9 FEET in 5 weeks time
My town would have full bare pavement, but Concord looks like that and not any sand either.
I am hoping to NOT repeat that.

Good to know that there is no needed extra weight. But I will not be getting 'winter' tires. Not worth it to me, I have the truck for active Snow driving.

Sorry Don, I already have a diesel, it's in my Truck

 

[justidutch]

I live up north, eh, and can attest that last winter my dear girl Eve handled just fine. I didn't even have winter tires though I really should. I don't see the need to add extra weight or any winter-specific mods. If these cars can handle a Winnipeg winter, they'll be fine throughout the rest of the planet.

 

[davidricardo86]

I hope this is relevant, otherwise i can create a seperate thread for this concern of mine.

I'm in Chicago and winters here can get pretty brutal. Snow, ice and salty roads just turn me off from wanting to drive my EV at all and switch over to my ICE Toyota Echo.

Just yesterday I went to go check out a climate controlled indoor storage parking as an option. My i-MiEV came from North Carolina and everything is rust free and in perfect condition. I don't want to put my EV through salt, and cause premature rusting so I'm seriously considering climate controlled storage. I know its a cheap car buts its my first "new" car and it has a lot of sentimental value to me regardless.

What do you guys think? If I was to forgo climate controlled, would I be risking damage to the batteries by leaving it in my cold garage for 3-4 months (temperatures can drop down to -15°F at worst case scenario based on past winters)? I remember reading something in the manual that it's not a good idea to store the car in extreme cold or heat for long periods of time at full or empty battery, best to leave it at 2 bars and maintian it there while in storage.

Also, would the tire suffer from flat spots? Should I put it up on 4 Jack stands instead with the tires touching the ground slightly?

 

[HParkEV]

Davidricardo86 - I think you should drive the i-MiEV as much as you need to, including the winters, as opposed to putting it in storage. If the car has sufficient winter range for your needs, then it makes sense to make full use of it. The wear and tear on the battery is actually going to be much less through the winter than the summer months. These batteries hate the heat, and don't mind the cold so much.
The only thing you should try to avoid is letting the battery cool off to a very low temperature (say, below -10F) while it is nearly fully discharged. It may be difficult to get it recharged in that case, since it will protect itself from damage caused by plating of the electrodes due to very low temperatures.
I live in Toronto, with similar weather to Chicago, and only have outdoor parking for the car. I keep the battery on the charger all through the cold nights by plugging it in after my daily commute is done and setting the charging current to just high enough for the charge to be complete by the time I leave in the morning. In the dead of winter that usually means 12A L1 charging from about 7pm to 7am. I may set the current at 10 or 11 amps if I have more range left at the end of my commute than usual. This seems to keep the battery pretty happy. I use the 'upgraded' stock EVSE to do this.

As for salt and corrosion - I think the aging of the battery, and its obsolescence due to its relatively low battery capacity will render the car nearly worthless in 10-12 years or so, regardless of being rust free or corroded. I think this car has much more of a 'best before' date built into it than ICE cars.

 

[Don]

If you plan to keep it for 10 years or more, I think storing it through the winter season isn't a bad idea. The underside of the iMiEV isn't that well protected against rust - I think driving it on salted roads for 3 or 4 winters *might* lead to problems. That plus the possibility of low temperature damage to the battery would make me think twice about it. Actually, there's no real *proof* that temps near zero will *kill* the battery, but there is evidence that it would probably shorten it's life, so if you're aiming to still be driving it 10 years from now . . . .

The other thing - The heater in the car is . . . . marginal. Getting any real heat out of it will significantly shorten the range, by as much as 50% in some cases. If I was contemplating driving one where winter temps get down in the teens or below, I would most certainly invest in a diesel heater, both for cabin comfort and keeping the battery pack warmer

I'm probably a bit strange (OK, admittedly, quite strange in many ways :lol: ) but I wouldn't consider owning a nice car in a harsh climate without also owning a garage to keep it in. If I didn't have a garage and wasn't allowed to build one, I'd be driving 8 or 10 year old cars that I paid a minimal amount for. It would bother me greatly to have nice machinery sitting outside 24/7 under blazing sun or 6 inches of snow . . . . but that's just me

Don

 

[PV1]

David, I understand how you feel, as Bear is my first car. Sure, I was driving a Cavalier before, but that was actually my Dad's car. Bear is the first car I've signed the papers on, and even got to drive it off the showroom floor :mrgreen: . It pains me when I find a new dent or paint chip, and I fear that one of the close calls with an idiot tailgating me isn't going to be a close call. Since I live in Pennsylvania, I do have rust under the car, but it appears to only be surface rust on the heavy steel components. I did have to clean and re-paint the wheels as the front wheels developed surface rust, which just looked bad.

Besides the chilly cabin on any day below 10 F, the i-MiEV is actually quite fun to drive in the winter. Usually, on one of the last nice days before the major cooldown, I try to wash the car and apply a good coat of wax, then when there is a day in the middle of winter when it is above 40 F, I try to wash the car with just water to wash the salt off. If you use soap/detergent, it removes the wax coating. I can usually get away with only 2 or 3 wax jobs through the year by washing with only water and a soft brush in between waxes. I only try to use the carwash soap before I apply a coat of wax.

If you are going to park it for the winter, I would try to leave it with about 6 bars, unplugged, and possibly a trickle charger on the 12 volt battery. Lead batteries can handle quite the cold as long as they are charged. The lower the charge, the higher the freezing point. The main battery's lithium ion cells only have an issue in cold when charging, where lithium plating can occur. If the car isn't connected to an EVSE while parked, there's virtually no chance of that happening. The temperature range for storing batteries is usually much wider than the operating temperature. I would probably use 4X4 chunks of lumber under the frame rails to prevent flat-spotting the tires. A car museum we recently visited did this to take all the weight off of the rubber, though the tires were just barely touching the ground.

When bringing the car out of storage in the spring, make sure it spends 24 hours at temperatures above freezing before you start charging the main battery, just to eliminate any chance of lithium plating. Periodically through the winter, start it up and make sure the charge didn't drop (it should still have 5-6 bars if you parked it with 6 bars).

 

[HParkEV]

...Actually, there's no real *proof* that temps near zero will *kill* the battery, but there is evidence that it would probably shorten it's life, so if you're aiming to still be driving it 10 years from now . . . .

Can you elaborate on this statement? So far, everything that I have seen points to the battery lasting longer in cold climates versus warm. The battery has a 10 year warranty anyway, so regardless of weather-related battery failures, you can be driving the car in 10 years - rusty or not.
At the same time, all normal battery degradation models point to the battery being in better shape in cold climates vs. hot.

 

[wmcbrine]

I remember reading something in the manual that it's not a good idea to store the car in extreme cold or heat for long periods of time at full or empty battery, best to leave it at 2 bars and maintian it there while in storage.

ISTR reading elsewhere in this forum that it's best to store it at about half-charged? And the main battery should basically keep its charge, but you'd want a battery tender for the 12V.

 

[Kuuuurija]

Several Estonian iMiev owners got corrosion warning from the reseller, claiming, that iMievs will have faster than normal corrosion in these climate conditions, and those cars need special additional anti corrosion treatment.

Source: Estonian newspaper Postimees. In Estonian - use Google translaator, if interested:
http://tarbija24.postimees.ee/3221323/tasuta-elektriautosid-ahvardab-roostetamine

 

[rkarl89203]

Good thing most of us are not in Estonia.
Seriously, those of us in the US upper Midwest should just be careful to wash our cars anytime after driving on salted roads after a snow or ice situation.
Perhaps Estonian imievs don't have the same rust-through warranty all the rest of us have.
Use common sense. Drive carefully in winter, wash your cars after driving on salted roads.
Period.
It really is quite easy.

 

[Phximiev]

What's a salted road? :lol:

 

[genec]

Get your car washed every April after all the snow is gone and the salt is washed off the roads.
Washing it anymore than that is just a waste of money and an exercise in futility.

 

[jsantala]

Warranty or not, the vehicle doesn't have any underbody coating, but then again hardly any new vehicles have anyway. If you're concerned about it, you do what needs to be done and get an underbody coating done. Personally I put some on from a can. It's nowhere near the protection that a proper one would give you, but it's something you can do for less than 10 €/$/£.

There was a recall regarding the battery pack rust issue, but I've had mine done and there was no problem. They just slapped some grease somewhere, I believe, and that's that.

So far my soon 5 yo. C-Zero exhibits no body rust, under or otherwise.

 

[DonDakin]

To store or not to store that is the question.....

Actually I am a fan of having a "Salt car" and a car that I pamper, and I have had a few over the years. THe last car that I kept in really good shape was a 2001 blue Honda civic. It was stored in the garage every year for 10 years while I drove a winter beater car. It was always a great feeling to get back in the Honda in the spring in a nice clean still polished car.

For the iMiev, (other) Don makes some good points. For sure the car will last longer and stay nicer especially the interior and underbody,brakes,etc. The fact that cold winters suck out the range on the car is another reason to store the car.

But..... unless you plan to keep the car 20 years, it will take a long time to put on the mileage and rack up some fuel saving running on electricity. Which besides saving the world is usually on the agenda.....

So I've decided to drive our iMievs thru the crappy winters. Even though we have a snow eating SUV I still love driving the iMiev in the snow. The diesel heater helps a lot on the range and comfort side. I don't put on the type of Mileage that Sandange does but I'm past 50K Km in my 3 years of driving and I'm really happy. So I would say go for it if you can manage with the reduced range.

Don.....