Charge does not stop when trigger pressed UK AC charging.

[michael8554]

I've tried two granny chargers on my 2011 UK MIEV, and neither stops the charging when the trigger on the plug is pressed.
But the triggers do stop the charging on my 2014 Outlander PHEV.
Looking at the wiring diagrams (Regular Charging Control System):
For 2011, Pin 4 of the plug (the PP signal) goes to CNCT on the EV-ECU, and to earth via an unspecified value resistor.
I measure 800ohms to earth on Pin 4.
For 2015 onwards Pin 4 goes directly to the On Board Charger/DC-DC Converter, no resistor.
So no-arcing disconnect doesn't seem to happen on my car - any ideas ?

 

[kiev]

I measure 800ohms to earth on Pin 4.

i think it is supposed to be 2.7k Ohms, don't know if that could be a contributing factor.

Charging stops when pulling the trigger on my 2012.

Some of the earlier version cars have a different configuration inside the OBC, that could be a factor also?

 

[MickeyS70]

According to wiki :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772

CP (pin 4 per standard, but pin 3 on car side)
The vehicle can request a certain charging function by setting the resistance between the CP and PE pins; 2.7 kΩ announces a Mode 3 compatible vehicle (vehicle detected) which does not require charging. 880 Ω says the vehicle is ready to be charged,

PP (pin 5 per standard, but connecting to pin 4 on car side)
The proximity pin, PP (also known as plug present), as shown in the SAE J1772 example pinout, describes the switch, S3, as being mechanically linked to the connector latch release actuator. During charging, the EVSE side connects the PP–PE loop via S3 and a 150 Ω R6; when opening the release actuator a 330 Ω R7 is added in the PP–PE loop on the EVSE side which gives a voltage shift on the line to allow the electric vehicle to initiate a controlled shut off prior to actual disconnection of the charge power pins

On the vehicle side PP pin 4 goes to the EV-ECU and via a 2.7kOhm resistor to ground to form a voltage divider when the plug is connected. You should be able to measure a voltage change on pin 103 (C-111, EV-ECU) when the actuator on the plug is pressed.

 

[michael8554]

Thanks.
Is pin 103 the easiest place to get to PP while plugged in and charging ?
Can it be back-probed if the charge socket is unbolted from the body ?
And what next if there's no change to the voltage ?

 

[MickeyS70]

Is pin 103 the easiest place to get to PP while plugged in and charging ?

Probably, easy enough to access under the back-bench and far away from mains voltage

Can it be back-probed if the charge socket is unbolted from the body ?

Never tried

And what next if there's no change to the voltage ?

Disconnect C-111 and measure resistance between pin 4 (and also pin 103, plug side) and ground, it should be 2.7kOhm as @kiev mentioned.

With C-111 still disconnected, plug in your charging cable (don’t turn on the EVSE)

Measure resistance again (Pin 103, plug side) without pushing the trigger, expect around 150 Ohm, that should rise to 410 Ohm with the trigger activated.

If everything is plugged in and turned on, the voltages on pin 103 (plugged in) should be (according to J1772) 1.6V, increasing to 2.8V with the trigger pushed.

If that all looks good, the fault is within the EV-ECU…

 

[michael8554]

Thanks for the comprehensive instructions.
I will follow them and report back.

 

[michael8554]

1. Disconnected C-111 from the EV-ECU.

2. Measured from the pink pin 103 in the plug to ground, got 2.7kohms - tick.

3. Plugged in unpowered charger cable, measured pin 103, got 150ohms, then 410ohms with trigger pressed - tick.

3. Replugged C-111, unpowered charge cable still plugged in, and turned key to first position, dash lights come on.

4. Turned the key further but car wouldn't turn ON.

Tried Charging, the dash red charge light came on, the charger indicated it was charging.

Stopped charging, disconected the charger, tried to start, still faulty.

Disconnected the 12V aux battery for a while then reconnected, no change.

12v aux battery (18 month old Yuasa YBS-3054) reads:
13.17V disconnected.
12.94V connected to car, key out.
12.46V key in
Does not rise to 14V when granny charging.

Help Please !!

 

[MickeyS70]

4. Turned the key further but car wouldn't turn ON.

That’s normal, car won’t go ready with charging cable plugged in (even only one end)

Tried Charging, the dash red charge light came on, the charger indicated it was charging.Does not rise to 14V when granny charging.

If the car charges, but not the 12V aux, the problem seems to be the DC/DC section of the OBC (it’s active when READY or during a charging session).

Do take it that the car doesn’t go READY any longer but still charges?
Do you get any DTCs? Checked C-111 for correct fit?

 

[kiev]

Probably should have disconnected the 12V battery before messing with the EV-ECU to make the passive resistance measurements. There are some always hot pins and ground returns that may not appreciate being interrupted at the box level.

1. Does the car now go to READY or not?

2. Does the car now charge from AC now or not?

3. If the car goes to READY, does the 12V battery get charged (14V) or not?

4. If the car does AC charge, does the 12V battery also get charged (14V) during the session or not?

5. Do you have an OBDII dongle and phone app to read any stored trouble codes, the DTCs?

 

[michael8554]

Thanks Kiev

1. What do you mean by READY ?
The key moves from Lock-Acc-On and the dash lights up.
Moving the key to Start, the car does not start and "chime".
The Aux Battery Charging Warning and Electric Motor Unit Warning symbols remain on.

2. Indications are it's charging, I haven't charged for long enough to see the range climb .

3. Again, which position is READY ? I will get someone to measure the Aux volts while I hold the key in the Start position.

4. The aux battery does not get charged to 14V when granny is charging.

5. I have a dongle, CanION, OBZero, CarScanner apps, and a iCarsoft JP V2.0 for Mitsubishi.

When I get a chance I will scan with all of them.

I didn't see any mention of disconnecting the Aux when doing the tests, the key was out of the car......... :-<

​

 

[MickeyS70]

1. What do you mean by READY ?
The key moves from Lock-Acc-On and the dash lights up.
Moving the key to Start, the car does not start and "chime".

The car is READY once you hear the ‘chime’ and see green READY on the dash (might be different for older versions)

The Aux Battery Charging Warning and Electric Motor Unit Warning symbols remain on.

There are DTCs present

2. Indications are it's charging, I haven't charged for long enough to see the range climb .

Might be worth a try

3. Again, which position is READY ? I will get someone to measure the Aux volts while I hold the key in the Start position.

No point

4. The aux battery does not get charged to 14V when granny is charging.

The DC/DC start command goes through C-111…

5. I have a dongle, CanION, OBZero, CarScanner apps, and a iCarsoft JP V2.0 for Mitsubishi.

When I get a chance I will scan with all of them.

CanION & ODBZero won’t show/clear DTCs

I didn't see any mention of disconnecting the Aux when doing the tests, the key was out of the car......... :-<

Shouldn’t have mattered, there are no ‘hot pins’ on C-111, but this connector is essential for the car to start, therefore make sure it’s in correctly and all wires are secure.

Might be also worth externally charging the 12V aux at this stage as it depletes very quickly without a working DC/DC..

 

[michael8554]

Thanks Mickey

Charged the Aux overnight and re-installed.

Tried the CarScanner app first.

Got U1116 and U1111
P1A15 and P1A14.

Cleared those codes, and the car now goes to Ready !

I had got halfway through the Trigger Test sequence, I don't think I will complete it :->

Phew !

 

[MickeyS70]

I had got halfway through the Trigger Test sequence, I don't think I will complete it :->

It all looks good from a wiring/resistor point of view, therefore the issue is most likely EV-ECU internal and you’re right, probably not worth further investigation.

 

[kiev]

So no problems now--the car goes to READY mode,
and it also charges up the HV traction pack,
and it also charges the 12V battery when in READY or AC charging?

The remaining problem is that it doesn't stop AC charging when the trigger is pressed?
If this is true then there is the potential for damage to the OBC if current is interrupted abruptly.

 

[michael8554]

Hi Mickey.

I didn't complete the test so I can't confirm "It all looks good from a wiring/resistor point of view,"

Please remind me what the codes mean.

Hi kiev,

What happens if I switch off the granny mains supply first ?

 

[kiev]

What happens if I switch off the granny mains supply first ?

Just pulling the plug out of the wall is not recommended.

Maybe do a Check of the ground connections on the EVSE and the car, i.e. the ground socket on the EVSE plug connects to the earth ground at the mains plug; and the ground pin in the charge port connects to chassis on the car. Continuity or resistance check, unpowered EVSE and car.

The PP line seems to correctly respond to the EVSE trigger press, but it is the CP line that "transmits" a control signal to cut back the current and prepare for disconnect. So there may be some defect on the CP side? But i don't know enough about how that might fail or get a defect. May need to open the OBC and monitor that signal at the control board connector to see what is happening when the trigger is pressed.

 

[michael8554]

Just pulling the plug out of the wall is not recommended.
Is that the same as switching the wall socket off ?

 

[MickeyS70]

I didn't complete the test so I can't confirm "It all looks good from a wiring/resistor point of view,"

What’s left is measuring the voltage change @pin 103 (when the car is charging), if it doesn’t work as suggested, then the fault lies within the EV-ECU.

However if the levels look good, then the EV-ECU either doesn’t ‘inform’ the OBC or the OBC ‘ignores’ the command to shutdown as @kiev mentioned.

The fact that this works with another car, pretty much rules out the EVSE side of the circuit.

Just pulling the plug out of the wall is not recommended.
Is that the same as switching the wall socket off ?

Yes, but not a problem, if the car has stopped charging, i.e. reached 100%.

There is another way to safely stop a charge as @kiev mentioned, by switching the CP line to 12V DC (standby, no charge).

It’s not easy to get access to the innards of a granny but I managed with mine and use this method to start/stop charging the car on a timer.

 

[kiev]

Is that the same as switching the wall socket off ?

So i take it that your wall outlet has a switch; which of the mains lines are switched by this device--one line, or both, done simultaneously?

Is it possible to wire up a dedicated outlet with no switch? i think that would be preferred. The switch internal contacts are suspect in my minds as there will be arcing at the contacts that will degrade and eventually destroy the switch.

 

[michael8554]

"The switch internal contacts are suspect in my mind"
Likely to run into the problem with UK switched socket outlets that aren't rated to carry 16A for hours on end.
So switching 16A would likely lead to problems.

Although I have tried two grannies, usually I charge with a Rolec 32A Wall mounted EVSE.

The Rolec is not a smart unit, so I modified that to give timed charging with a wireless SonOff, to turn the CP line on and off.
But disconnected that after a while, when I realised that manual charging during the afternoon Off-Peak period when the sun was shining was better :-<

So back to testing.
"If everything is plugged in and turned on, the voltages on pin 103 (plugged in) should be (according to J1772) 1.6V, increasing to 2.8V with the trigger pushed."

So Aux battery connected ?