Used 2013 Model S - Oh So Tempting

[PV1]

Here I go again :lol: .

I stumbled across a used 2013 Model S P85+ for $61,500. It's pre-Autopilot, but is very close to home and the right color combination. 31,000 miles and looks to be in great condition.

Probably the wrong forum to ask, but what are your thoughts on used Tesla buying? What things should I be on the lookout for? I've driven a Roadster, but not an S.

 

[Phximiev]

Try not to step on your tongue or slobber all over yourself with glee!!

 

[kiev]

Seems high, keep shopping. The SE sells for the same as the ES, so find a P85+ and get it for the same as an S85, or S70D, etc.

Check the 2013's record for replacement gearboxes, and factor that into the price equation. Some guys have been thru several.

caveat emptor

 

[JoeS]

Down, boy!

There is a big difference between "need" and "want". Before going any further, read these:

http://www.financialsamurai.com/the-110th-rule-for-car-buying-everyone-must-follow/
http://www.financialsamurai.com/net-worth-rule-for-car-buying-guideline/

Although still a bit pricey, a $6000 used i-MiEV is a prudent purchase of a practical vehicle.

That said and as an aside, in 1966 I had a chance to purchase an immaculate gull-wing 300SL from a widow who was willing to let me have it for $4500; but, no, I wasn't going to spend half my annual salary (at that time) on any car (even though I had the cash saved up). Um, maybe I should have thought of it as an 'investment' instead? DUH

My Tesla sits in the garage under a cover and only comes out for really long trips, which at this point in time is actually very often as a family necessity (long-distance fun trips aside). Otherwise, the i-MiEV satisfies >99% of our trip needs.

A Tesla is a very nice toy and I don't mind taking a 20%/year depreciation hit on the used car + registration/taxes + insurance, but I think you might not be comfortable with this. There's also a big unknown with the expiration of the 4-year 50,000-mile basic warranty (although battery and motor/drivetrain are good for 8 years and no mileage restrictions). As an aside, last month Tesla was kind enough to replace my entire pano roof assembly (it chattered when opening) and the year-old motor/drivetrain (it had a tiny noise and I asked if that was normal) under warranty. I'm at 45K miles and expect to cross 50K by Christmas...

PV1, think long and hard and do your homework and be objective at this point in your life. It's nice to sleep well at night.

Apologies for preaching...

 

[PV1]

Thanks for the input so far. It caught me off guard when I saw it. Just dreaming a bit.

I'm going to stop by this afternoon and look at it. If nothing else, show them how to charge it (their pictures show the dotted orange line on the power meter, meaning it's very low on charge).

It's kind of funny. This dealer used to run hate ads on EVs and hybrids.

This price is much better than the S60 I found a couple of years ago, although Autopilot drove (no pun intended) down the prices on the older cars. Compared to a couple of S 60s for sale, they are selling for $53,900-$54,900 with less desirable color options and no pano roof.

 

[mdbuilder]

The guidelines in those links are brutal <g>. I thought I was cheap!

Other than that, 60K is out of my range for any car, let alone a used car.

But in any case, if you'd be elligible for the $4K extended service deal which is another 4 years and 50K miles I think and you budget that in...

I wouldn't buy a Telsa without the service agreement, huge risk.

 

[PV1]

Also, I don't believe most of the points in the 1/10th article ring true for a lot of folks. I'd never have valet park a Tesla (I don't even like them parking my i-MiEV). I wouldn't need to superficially match my wardrobe with the car, and I drive and park so that I don't get tickets or the car beaten up.

Tesla or i-MiEV, these traits are the same. I take care of the vehicle as best I can not because of affordability, but because I want the vehicle to last as long as possible and for it to keep looking its best.

The odds of me actually buying a Model S are slim. It's fun to dream and figure out if it's possible, though. A new S60 built similar to the one I'm looking at is $77,750.

 

[JoeS]

To be eligible for the extended warranty I believe the car must have been serviced according to Tesla's schedule and is available to the original owner only. I'm going to stop by the Tesla SC to confirm this, but I've already decided not to get it because -
1. The car is already very well de-bugged (which is why I bought it in the first place)
2. The car is leading a very easy life, used only as a long-distance highway car on reasonably good roads
3. I protect the car from excessive heat and cold which are major causes of display screen and electronics failures
4. Yes, a $4000 repair is easy to rack up on a Tesla; e.g., a door handle repair is $1000 each, although do-it-youselfers on the Tesla forum have already detailed the usual cause of this problem and a $5 fix. But, how many repairs will one rack up in four years which will exceed $4K?
5. The battery and motor/drivetrain warranty is good for 8 years with unlimited mileage.
6. There is insufficient data to make an informed decision: for example, what are the top ten or 20 most-common failures on the Tesla and what is the repair cost for each ... only Tesla knows, and they're not telling...
7. I have (blind?) faith that Tesla will 'do the right thing' as cars come off warranty and have problems and will not gouge owners, in keeping with Elon's saying that Service would not be a profit center (or something like that) [cynicism regarding accountants deleted]. As far as I'm concerned, Tesla service to date for me has been exemplary and they have a budding image they need to protect as their M3 comes along.

I'm debating whether to take my Tesla in for a $1200 48,000 mile major service where they change the brake, battery coolant, and aircon fluids in addition to the usual way-overpriced 'inspections' and new windshield wipers, but don't include something like wheel alignment. I really worry about a tech damaging something while performing these operations as I subscribe to the "if it ain't broke or leaking then don't touch it" school of maintenance. That said, my chattering pano roof which Tesla kindly replaced was caused by a lack of track lubrication (I thought they'd simply squirt some special lubricant into it but instead replaced the whole thing with a beautiful latest-generation version) - it was chattering when I bought it.

Just sharing some of my thoughts, that's all... but then, I'm retired and playing with toys and spending my kid's inheritance after a frugal life driving my 1967 Saab forever ("Joe, how can you afford to retire early?" asked by a co-worker always driving the latest beemers and constantly belittling my little Saab - duh, do the math; incidentally, that was 20 years ago and he's still working).

When driving home from a 200+mile trip to a wedding late last Saturday and having put on 15K miles on our Tesla in the last five months, my wife and I agreed that buying the Tesla had been, indeed, a good move on our part. Remember, I'm wearing an anti-ICE zero-carbon green hat nowadays to rationalize my toys. :roll: :mrgreen:

 

[Don]

. . . . "Joe, how can you afford to retire early?" asked by a co-worker always driving the latest beemers and constantly belittling my little Saab - duh, do the math; incidentally, that was 20 years ago and he's still working).

Been there, done that . . . . and listened to the same 'song' a hundred times. Retired from the USAF at 40, worked a civil service job (in the same office as my USAF job) for 8 more years and retired for good at 48 and haven't worked a day for pay since. My house and all my toys were paid for (though no Mercedes or Beemers in my garage) and my retirement plans were all stocked up, so when my civil service job offered a buyout, I was the first one to the door

As Joe mentioned earlier, it's all about prioritizing your 'wants' and your 'needs' - I wanted to retire young and I didn't need to drive something just to impress anybody

Don

 

[PV1]

Check the 2013's record for replacement gearboxes, and factor that into the price equation. Some guys have been thru several.

Wouldn't they get an up to date drive module when it is replaced? How hard are people driving to bust gearboxes? I know that was an issue with the original 2-speed Roadster gearboxes, but that was solved by going single-speed.

The dealer was quite busy yesterday, so I was only able to look at the exterior. Definitely has air suspension (the back end is sitting on the bump stops). As far as condition, I didn't see any chips or scratches, although I did notice condensation in the passenger side reverse light and something looked a little off with the carbon fiber spoiler. They've apparently had it for a while, and given the rust-covered rotors and deflated air suspension, hasn't been moved for at least a week. I hope it was charged before they parked it.

As for the price, it continues to be in line with others I'm finding. A similar P85 in Florida is $57,550, but has more miles, is much further away, and isn't the color I like.

What does the Performance Plus package add, and what did it cost to add it?

 

[JoeS]

(Sigh), PV1 I hope you're only window shopping.

All of the used Teslas I had looked at were in excellent condition, and all were being sold because their owners had bought a newer Tesla with AutoPilot.

There are a number of key price points when looking at used Teslas. Here are my own opinions -

1. With or without AutoPilot, which was introduced in September 2014. At the time I bought mine (earlier this year) this commanded a $30K premium on the used car market.

2. Battery size. I didn't even bother looking at anything less than 85kWh because I was looking for a long-distance car (my i-MiEV is 'better' for everyday driving). 60kW battery models take at least a $5K+ price hit.

3. Mileage. A HUGE breakpoint exists perception-wise at 50,000 miles when the warranty expires. I haven't dollarized this, but it must easily devalue the car by at least $5K. I believe if the car comes with it that the $4K extended-warranty is transferrable (for a small fee?). Uncharted territory as Teslas are now approaching this breakpoint. Looking at the Tesla forum one finds lots of owners unloading their cars before the 50K mileage point.

4. Previous repairs - I, for one, was delighted to buy a Tesla which had the motor/drivetrain and the contactors within the battery and the 12v battery replaced, even though the previous owner had never had it serviced. What I got was a fully-debugged car with all the electronics nicely burned-in that I had no qualms about hopping into and doing a 10,000-mile trip around the US. As I said previously, Tesla just replaced my Pano roof and the (previously-replaced) motor/drivetrain under warranty and I'm a very happy camper. There was a detailed technical explanation of the very subtle motor issue in the Electric Auto Association newsletter a few months back. Hey, on a Tesla replacing the motor/drivetrain is WAY simpler than replacing an engine/transmission on an ICE car.

5. Options such as pano roof, air suspension, tech packages, 21" wheels, performance packages, etc. are simply up to your own 'wants'. I bought a fully-loaded pristine car (plain not performance S85) despite not being interested in the pano roof or some of the other features, and the previous owner transplanted the 21" wheels to his new Tesla and I got brand-new 19" wheels/tires which is what I wanted. Tesla's options have all changed with time so you're often left with a bewildering array: I simply listed everything possible by going back in time and used it as a checklist when looking at used cars. Oh, and make sure it is SuperCharger enabled.

Look on CraigsList in major metropolitan areas such as San Francisco and Los Angeles and you'll find Teslas in the mid-40's. For example, I just jumped onto SF Bay Area CraigsList (~100 used Teslas) and found this one for $45.5K:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/5760554228.html
On the other hand, a used Tesla in an out-of-the-way place might be ripe for negotiation due to low demand. Remember, everything is negotiable.

That's just for starters. Otherwise, all the usual caveats when buying a used car apply.

PV1, please do your own personal financial analysis first: unless it is truly unusual, a car is a very depreciable asset, and don't be trapped by the "I can afford X$/month". In my own conservative case, with the exception of my house mortgage, if I couldn't pay cash I didn't buy it. Simple as that.

 

[PV1]

Depending on how the dealer works numbers, it is very unlikely that I buy it.

As for legitimate uses:
1. At some point, I would like to start taking road trips. A Tesla would allow that (and would be able to tow a small camper trailer).
2. Given the rumored end of production for the i-MiEV, I don't want to continue racking up miles on a car with so few copies in the US. I would still drive the i-MiEV most of the time, but I would defer a fair portion of trips to the Tesla, especially longer ones.
3. I rarely drive Koorz (my Dad drives it the most for going back and forth to work). A guy has asked about buying it, and I might sell it. I don't regret the purchase, as it served some very useful purposes last year (RV show display, something to drive while Bear was getting the battery replaced, loaner for my brother when his car blew up). I could likely get most of my money back out by selling it directly (others on lots in the area average $8,000, I paid $10,000).

This Tesla is optioned almost exactly as I would order a new one (minus the Performance). While AutoPilot is really neat, I think it would either cause more fatigue while on the road or make me totally bored, depending on how the latest firmware behaves). I don't miss it, and if that saves a decent chunk of purchase price, I'll gladly do without.

This is a P85+, so it has the bigger battery. I want the Pano roof (still miss not having a sunroof in the i-MiEV), air suspension would save a lot of scrapes (I guess air suspension required tech package at the time), and like you, I prefer the 19" wheels for cost, looks, and tolerance to rough roads.

Used Teslas in western PA are still rare, so there's a bit of premium added on. Bottom line, it depends on final price and how it drives (so, yes, window shopping). The Roadster I drove was great except for trying to turn around and pulling into driveways, due to sitting low and lack of power steering. The Model S is more of an everyday car, but I worry about the width and how the throttle pedal is mapped (I'm too used to simply planting it and letting up as I approach my desired power level...led to a few tire squeals when driving an ICE ). This will be discovered during a test drive.

 

[PV1]

Funny how the price magically goes up when you walk in the door. On the site, it's listed for $61,415, but in the dealer, it's $64,500. Shown as originally from Illinois and last purchased from an Auto auction in Ohio. Two owners listed.

Tesla does it right without dealers. They copied my license before they'd even unlock it, and wanted to run a credit app and all the paperwork before "taking a ride".

This was fun, but I'll wait for the Model 3.