Risk in buying a second-hand i-Miev

[JoeS]

offgridQLD, I think he may have been referring to http://evseupgrade.com/
What's nice is that the unit is very easily and quickly programmable from 6A to 12A in one-amp steps.

Sorry you didn't come to an agreement with the dealer - hope he calls you back. White is a good color for QLD.

The more I think about it, with your technical astuteness I don't think driving up to your hillside property will be an issue. Just take it very easy the first time to build up a reserve before the climb.

 

[iMiEVNZ7]

Hi Joe,
yes, that is the one for the ESEV one I mentioned,sorry for the error in the web address, thank you for sorting that.

The portable Fast charger move and charge Chademo one is http://www.evtec.ch/c5website/index.php/en/products/move_and_charge/ This is the one that would be ideal for a trailer and generator and or battery pack, for recharging stuck hire cars,

and the fixed location one is coffee and charge 3 in one http://www.evtec.ch/c5website/index.php/en/products/coffeeandcharge-3in1/

This is the one we aim to get for our recharging stations for the hire out iMiEV. These chargers will be placed in countryside service stations which will attract customers to the shops. In NZ, the most profit is from customers buying food, compared to the income from petrol sales.

 

[offgridQLD]

Thanks for the links.

So looking at that webpage I can purchase a new replacment EVSE for just over $1000 that's adjustable in 1A increments. Now thats ideal crank it up on the sunny days and turn it down on the gloomy days.

How is it adjusted ? pot on the side usb connection ?

Are the Imiev's battery's lithium cobalt or simular? I have a lot of experience with lifepo4 3.3v nominal and 3.65v max charge voltage though i tend to cut the charge at 3.5v.

From what I have read the I-miev's cells are set to charge at 3.95v conservative factory cut off... 4.2v max? So whats the chemistry? not much info online.

Kurt

 

[JoeS]

So looking at that webpage I can purchase a new replacment EVSE for just over $1000 that's adjustable in 1A increments. Now thats ideal crank it up on the sunny days and turn it down on the gloomy days. How is it adjusted ? pot on the side usb connection ?

I wouldn't buy this from scratch, but only would have EVSEUpgrade.com modify your existing Mitsubishi (Panasonic) L1 EVSE (after/if you buy it). There are other options if you want to buy one to own in addition to the Mitsu EVSE. The programming is simple: a shorting bar (bent paperclip) is inserted into two of the sockets inside the J1772 plug. This enables programming (evidenced by blinking red light on the EVSE). You then click the spring-loaded latch the number of times that you want amps; e.g, nine clicks gives nine amps. You pull out the paperclip and the program is loaded, and blinks a green light for the number of amps you have programmed. Brilliant!

Are the Imiev's battery's lithium cobalt or simular? I have a lot of experience with lifepo4 3.3v nominal and 3.65v max charge voltage though i tend to cut the charge at 3.5v. From what I have read the I-miev's cells are set to charge at 3.95v conservative factory cut off... 4.2v max? So whats the chemistry? not much info online.

I understand what you're saying, as I've been conservatively charging my Headway LiFePO4 12Ah cells in 2x 4P8S packs ("48V" electric outboard, scooter, electric bicycle, and backup power source) to 3.450v/cell.

Here's the link to our iMiEV (Lithium Manganese Oxide) data: http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=747

Here's a link to a service data sheet on the Battery SubForum showing that in the US the Mitsu full-charge cell voltage is a conservative 3.955v: http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7365#p7365

 

[offgridQLD]

Yikes only 85% capacity after 1000 cycles.If you use the car once a day its only just over 3 years to drop 15% range. Its a Shame they didn't use lifpo4 even the Chinese calb cells are rated & tested to 3000 cycles you would get close to 10 years then before you drop 15% range.

Perhaps dropping the battery tray and stuffing some 40 - 60AH calbs in there might be the best bet in. Depends on what kind of battery management they use as it could get tricky integrating it as the chemistry - cell voltage is different you would need more lifpo4 cells to mach he voltage.

$5600 for 100 x 3.2v 40ah calb cells $9000 would buy you 100 calb 60AH cells enough for 320v.

My main reason for investing in A I - miev is getting a safe moden small car with all of the expensive ev components like liquid cooled ac motor already there. cheaper than I can build my own. I think this is only true because the imiev has been a flop in Australia (and other places) and they are clearing stock at a loss.

Regarding others comments on bringing a large generator and fast charger in a trailer to rescue stranded I miev's. Honestly I don't think it would be worth it .

Think of it this way say my wife was stranded and I got a call and I had the trailer/generator/fast charger option. I would hitch the trailer to my 3lt turbo diesel truck/utility and drive to her location then sit on the side of the road for 30min- 1hr burning more diesel in a 20kva generator to see her on her way.

2nd option would be to hitch a small car trailer onto my truck/utility (3 ton towing capacity ) drive to her and tow the i-miev to a fast charge station or home. I bet this option would be faster - easyer and consume less diesel

Kurt

 

[JoeS]

Kurt, don't confuse the theoretical 1000 cycles on a bench test with real-world cycling. There's a Swedish study of electric buses that shows significantly better battery life than bench tests predict (was also laboriously covered on EVTV, 5 April 2013 episode). See the link that's included in this summary post:

http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9547#p9547

 

[offgridQLD]

Yes I do watch evtv and i am familiar with the electric bus report.

Cycling the cells around the middle of there SOC range for max cycle life. As ideal 49% soc to 51% soc (hardly practical to use 2% of your capacity though :lol: . In real world conditions perhaps discharging to 35% soc and recharging to only 75% SOC is a good middle ground. Allowing you to use 50% of your capacity.

I would say Mitsubishi would have built in a good 5 - 10% buffer zone at each end that you never get to use anyhow.

Kurt

 

[offgridQLD]

Ok so looks like we have a deal on the I-miev I can agree on . So just some paperwork and its ours.

WyVern,
I need to be able to charge my I-miev at both houses . I have the plugs covered at the offgrid house but the city house needs a 15A plug and cable run. My question for you is were you able to get your outlet wired to your off peek meter? I have I think its tariff 33 for my solar hot water booster. 15c kwh vs 22c kwh for my standard rate.

In fact I would ideally like to run two cables and have two outlets. One off peek and one standard to have the option of both. During the weekdays for the next few years most of my charging will be done from the city house and just weekend charging at the offgrid house.

It was nice to see on the contract that registration was only $260 PA for the i-miev (classified as 1cyl electric :lol: ) our 4cyl 2.2llt engine was over $600 pa for registration so a nice $300 saving.

Kurt

 

[JoeS]

Kurt, congratulations on your purchase and DO let us know how your trip turns out!

 

[WyVern]

Really glad you got yourself a deal. For those reading this abroad the tarrif 33 is a reduced rate electricity meter that is only active for certain periods of the day, typically used for powering pool pumps during off peak periods, a boon in subtropical Queensland.

We did look into the same two outlet setup but found it could not be done by the certified sparky we used. Its a little beyond my knowledge but he explained that only one device s able to be switched on the tarrif 33 meter, everything else has to be hard wired and this would not be suitable.

Perhaps this means more to you than it does to me, I simply went with the path of least resistance and have not been disappointed

 

[offgridQLD]

Ok,
So you did get your 15A switched outlet wired on tariff 33 or on the standard tariff? I take it you already had something switched on 33 like a pool pump?

I only have my hot water tank hard wired to it so I guess I can have one switched outlet being the I-miev.

Roughly $2.40 for 16kwh VS $3.68 16kwh . I'm sure there are some inefficacy in charging so it would consume more than 1kw for each Kw stored in the battery though.


Boy its going to be great seeing this thing charge up Directly from My solar panels on the (free tariff :lol: )


Kurt

 

[WyVern]

Apologies, just re-read my post and could have been clearer. My tarrif 33 is taken up by my pool pump so my imiev charges on a standard 15a socket. My usage is offset by our 5kw solar with a 55c feed in tarrif so still happy days

 

[offgridQLD]

No prob I was thinking that's what you were getting at.

We have a small 1500w PV on the city house with same 55C kwh deal. But most of that gets consumed by house AC.

Kurt

 

[iMiEVNZ7]

Sigh,
finally got the boss to agree to buy the car, and got the dealer to offer a great price, $ 135 NZ per week for 5 years. No Deposit.

There was one hitch and that was as a test car, he had to get Mitsubishi NZ approval first to sell the test car.

Just got an e-mail this morning that all imievs in NZ had been brought by a Auckland dealer so he couldn't sell me the car on the yard here.

Have got onto MMNZ and have been told they will get back to me today re what is best options to get one. I looked online and see that an Auckland Dealer has three for sale and the $ 33, 000 one is pretty close in repayments to the Christchurch one so have sent them off an e-mail.

If we do get it, am tossing up between doing an epic road trip of 1,000 kms and a lot of overnight chargeing at Motels along with some rest stop breaks using generator charging via a Honda 2000i or simply putting it on Jeff's transport, a NZ car transporter firm for about $ 800 NZ.

Road trip sounds fun, but would cost about $ 1, 200 in acomodation, meals and ferry crossing. Best range allowing over night charging and generator recharging say full charge at 8 am, drive for 100 kms stop at 9 am, recharge via 2000i for 5 hours, that is 2 pm, drive for 100 km, stop at 3 pm, recharge again for 5 hours, that is 8 pm, drive another 100 km, stop at 9 pm and head to motel for night and recharge overnight.

That give 300 km per day so the 1, 000kms could be done in about four days no problems.


Would be great fun.

 

[WyVern]

I had a similar issue with transport after buying from a dealer outside the cars range. I wanted them to meet me half way at a recharge point but the wouldn't.
I had the options of paying for transport (expensive), driving my self with a fair amount of planning involved, or hiring a truck capable of containing what is only a small car.
In the end I planned and drove myself (cheapest option and fully insured).
The dealer made it even more interesting by only providing a 3/4 charge and my lack of hyper miling experience turned into a 5 hour challenge hampered by winds and a lack of charge infrastructure. Made it home with 0% charge on the dial and cured my range anxiety forever!

 

[iMiEVNZ7]

GOOD NEWS !,
After hearing the car was already sold from dealer back to MMNZ, I prayed about it and then went asking MMNZ about where it went to.

The car only has 2, 000 Kms on it and we put about 700 km of those on it during our testing.

MMNZ have replied back to me that the car is currently in Wellington and we can have it for $ 28, 000 plus GST, if we pick it up from them.

I talked to my boss and we are sorting out the logistics now. I reckon we could pick it up fully charged, take the ferry to Picton, top up at the free power point at the boat park, and buying a Generator in Blenhiem, top it up each 100 kms at rest stops.

The trip is only 385 km from Picton, so first stop at 100 km, recharge, then next stop at 200 km, recharge, next stop at 85 km as there are big hills, recharge and then should be good to get home. I think it might be a long day but plenty of time to stop and rest.

We are aiming to buy four more , one each year.

 

[JoeS]

iMiEVNZ7, congratulations! sounds like you have a workable plan, with that genset as a backup. Just checked PlugShare and they show only ONE charging station in the entire country of New Zealand (in Waikato, near Taupo, North Island!. Have you looked into all the caravan holiday parks along the way down from Picton? With an adapter or two and a long extension cord, you should be all set!

It will be a most interesting experience for you once you get the car down there. Careful customer education will be paramount. Here's a commentary on how rentals of electric cars are doing here:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1087741_want-to-rent-an-electric-car-you-probably-wont-for-long

Do give us an update when you get her home.

 

[iMiEVNZ7]

Hi Joe,
Thank you for the link, it was good reading and a bit scarey re the rental customers returning the car on a week hire after 1 or two days !.

We have found a minor problem with the warranty offered on the car. In initial discussions about a year ago, rental usage was fine and covered by the extended warranty, but it would appear this is now not so, bar the main 3 year 150, 000 km one.

The car is a July 2011 model so the three year warranty, which we thought would be from date of purchase, is in fact from the date of first reg and being a test car, that is July 2011 so the standard car warranty expires on July 2014. The Battery one runs to 2019 I think.

If we use it as a work or private car only we can get an extended warranty for another three years on the main car warranty.

As the car itself is reliable, but we are unsure about the BMS being covered by the battery warranty, I have asked for clarification from the dealer about if the BMS is part of the battery warranty or is part of the main car warranty..

Plan is, if the BMS warranty is not part of the battery warranty, we only use the car as a work or private car, and buy an extended warranty for the whole car.

If the BMS is covered by the Battery Warranty we will go ahead and hire the car out.

This is for this car, for any other ones we buy, we plan on buying one each year, we will put them on the hire fleet regardless of the warranty.


The first one we want to be sure about first.

So I am awaiting some revised figures from the dealer re the flash alloys from Japan, $ 700 NZ abut each, and he has said the car is so cheap to bring via transporter from Wellington, they will cover that so our pick up will be here. He said about $ 300.

Sigh re no need for a road trip, but good re not needing to buy a $ 2, 500 NZ generator so near Christmas !


Now to order the fast charger if we do go ahead with car hires. $ 17, 000 NZ. We will mount the first one at our planned solar farm at Sheffield. so that will make a good plug share entry ! This will give us easy range out to out storage area for our boats and back to town.

There will also be a level two outlet available for using the on board charger.

If we do go ahead with the car hires, we will be sure to put on the website full instructions so customer know what they are hiring and ranges they can expect and the car will have a reference card for quick checking while planning a trip.

We are expecting customers traveling under 80 kms per charge will use the imiev and the customers planning on going more than 80 km per charge will use the Prius.

To encourage useage, we'll price the iMiEV at half what a small petrol car is to hire.


edited an error re hiring out with extended BMS warranty.

 

[computerdoc]

I'm just testing under this new membership I just set up.... replying as part of an effort to recover my original 8 year old membership ID.