Risk in buying a second-hand i-Miev

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I would definitely plan on a stop to top off the battery somewhere en route, especially going city->country; I don't know if that's practical, as I don't know what you're driving through along the way. I'm sure folks here are just being enthusiastically pro-EV, but I view that trip as being toward the outer range of a brand new i-MiEV. My real concern is how long you'll be doing this - if this is a routine that's likely to continue for several years, you need to keep in mind that you could lose some 20-30% of the range as the battery experiences its normal degradation over that time (that's a rough estimate, but the closest we have from Mitsubishi, which I'm hoping is extra-conservative). I don't think that would be a big problem for the drive you describe, as long as you can make that stop along the way. But unless you can get such arrangements nailed down, I'd consider this one a pretty close call, not one I'd be comfortable with.
 
Thanks for all the responses.

As others have mentioned in Brisbane QLD Australia the weather is very mild. Its a sub tropical climate. 10C min over nite & 25C days are typical winter weather. Summer 20C min - 35Cmax is typical.

I have owned lithium powerd ebikes for several years so have a reasonable understand of how to get max whr - km out of a EV .

We plan on doing the city to country house trip for the next 4 years every weekend. My thinking is how healthy the pack is over that 4 years will have a lot to do with how many cycles I put on it and how well I treat it more than the time factor But its a point to consider.

Some times you just wish they gave it a 20kwh pack :lol: But then it would have been a more expensive car. When we are living full time at the country house Im sure it will be the perfect match for us.Driving our daughter to school every day two 25kmh round trips would work out great charging of the sun for 6hrs between them.This will save us 250km a week of fuel cost. the round trip to the sea/ beach and larger town from the country house is only 80km so that would work out good to on the weekends. Its just this dam trip from the city each week that's the deal breaker now.

Looking on the internet I did find a blog from a person with a I-miev living locally to my country house (same small town) they spoke about the drive up the hill to the hinterland. So I will try and make contact with them to ask how much energy that climb takes from there pack. There are two ways of making the climb. One is the faster newer road up the mountain and the 2nd is the old road that chopped the climb ip into lots of little windy sections. It mite be possible to take the old road and do the climb at a very low speed.

Regarding people wanting to do over 100kmh on the motorway. Yes if you sit in the fast lane you will get people upset at you. Though if your in the slow lane I don't think it would be any issue sitting on 90kmh. lots of motor homes and cars towing caravans do this speed or less anyhow. Due to the number of speed camera's and people driving cars with speedometers that are not celebrated I find people tend to drive at 90 95kmh (going of my gps) but I'm sure they are using there conservative speedometer on the dash.

Plugging in on the drive up sure would add to the time it takes to get there at the moment its about 1 1/2hr trip done on a Friday evening after work 7:00pm - 8:30pm the additional 1hr midway charging sure would have us arriving late at night.

I have have several 15A 240v outlets and one 32A 240 outlet installed in my workshop/garage for the charging at the offgrid house. 32A was installed for my plazma cutter but happy to fast charge from that. On a sunny day house battery's are usually on float by 9:30AM and i have all the solar energy just going to wast from 9:30Am - 5:30pm. I do have a 8kva 3cyl diesel kabota generator though it never gets used just backup for the off grid house.Its got a nice clean output but at 350kg not something you can put in a i-miev for range extension. :lol: Im realy not keen on burning fuel to get to my destination as its just missing the point a little.

Anyhow I haven't given up I will just keep researching and talking to local I -miev owners and see how I go. I am the kind of guy who wouldn't shy away from building my own ev and have the trade background to do so. Though starting with a OEM platform makes things so much neater and is a smarter idea in the long run. Access to oem quality components is difficult and or very expensive not to mention retrofitting a older ICE power car to electric is never quite the same no matter how good your fabrication skills are. The i-miev and perhaps integrating additional capacity could be another option. Or perhaps there 2014 20kwh model ... :lol:

Speaking of DIY evs. It's funny looking at the same online used car webpage that i was seeing $20,000 - $25,0000 I miev. There was a guy trying to sell his 1990 diahatsu charade dc motor lithium EV conversion. Without AC or power steering . That's a 23year old $500 base car platform. 100km range for $15,000 after spending over 25,000 on his project and all that time and effort :roll:

Kurt
 
Glad to hear of another QLD EV-er :)

I reckon as you say you will be able to manage the trip but agree with other comments that as your battery life degrades you may find this trip is beyond max range. The biggest issue I suspect will be the killer QLD humidity forcing HVAC use and depleting range in summer.

I read an interesting fact today that out of 2.5 million cars registered in QLD, just 48 are electric! A sad state of affairs while waiting for infrastructure but nice to know you are part of an exclusive and discerning group ;)
 
Yes I have only seen one I-miev on the road in Brisbane about two weeks ago.

AC sure is needed in QLD. If your driving any time between 10am - 4pm.

I do laugh though when people worry about having the stereo,fan, windscreen wipers or lights on. You have 40,000w engine sucking away at your battery what difference will a (estimating) 15w stereo, 30w wiper motor, 20w fan two 50w head lights & 40w worth of parking and tail lights make.... 205w together if you drive for 1hr with them all on at once it would consume 0.205kwh from a 16kwh pack:lol:

reminds me when my father came to stay at our off grid home and was worrying about leaving the 10w led bathroom light on to long. But thought nothing of running a 2400w espresso machine & a 1500w toaster at the same time. :roll:

Kurt
 
If that iMiev was electric blue with TEA in the number plate then it was likely me :)

I'm still getting used to the TEA-pot's range but have no hang ups over it. Just wondering ihow the combination of heat and AC use will go on longer journeys in the summer, had cause to use AC while stationary in the heat with nothing else running last week and lost a bar of power in quite a short space of time...
 
WyVern said:
Just wondering ihow the combination of heat and AC use will go on longer journeys in the summer, had cause to use AC while stationary in the heat with nothing else running last week and lost a bar of power in quite a short space of time...
You'd need to lose two bars in order to get any comprehensive idea of how much the A/C was costing you - At some point, you'll go from say 10 bars to 9. If the computer is teetering on the verge of the change, flipping on the headlights for 5 seconds would trigger it, but if it had just changed from 11 bars to 10, you could probably run the A/C for half an hour or more and not see the change to 9

I've used the A/C while parked many times while the wife is in a store and have never actually noticed a change from one bar to a lower one. When running on 'MAX Cool' the A/C can draw as much as 4Kwh (nearly as much as the 4.5Kwh heater) but in my experience the compressor is usually cycled off at least as often as it's cycled on, if not more. Compared to the heating system, the A/C is pretty energy miserly. Heat consumes about 3X the energy in my personal experience. Use of the A/C seems to cost me about 10 to 15% of the car's normal range - More of course if you're running it while stopped for long periods of time

Don
 
Correct me if I am wrong but when they rate a AC unit at 4.5kw that is usually the output. Ac units are usually 200 - 300% effishant. Taking the energy from the atmosphere around them. So The actual consimption is a lot less than the rated output . Add to that cycling and its even less consumption again. my home room Ac is rated at 2.5kw cooling capacity but consumes 800w on high cooling. I couldn't imagine the cabin of the imiev needing 8-12kw of cooling capacity for its Ac.

What kind of heater dose the I-MIev have. Reverse Ac. It sound like it is if the rated output is slightly higher on heating mode that cooling 4kw cool vs 4.5 heat . So again most likely well under 1.5 - 2 kw consumption . I know Mitsubishi motors and Mitsubishi electric are two different things but Mitsubishi make some of the worlds most effisiant Reverse cycle Ac units over 300% effisiancy!

Kurt
 
offgridQLD said:
What kind of heater dose the I-MIev have. Reverse Ac. It sound like it is if the rated output is slightly higher on heating mode that cooling 4kw cool vs 4.5 heat . So again most likely well under 1.5 - 2 kw consumption .
Nope - The heater is a plain ole resistance unit which heats water which is then pumped into the car's heater core where they blow air through the warm core to heat the car - Very inefficient and it does use lots more energy in actual use than the A/C system does

If you want to stay anything close to warm, it will be drawing most all of that 4.5Kwh all the time

There's rumors about that the next version of the iMiEV will have reverse cycle heat pump heating. Anything would be an improvement

Don
 
Oh that is a very nasty way to heat the car :shock: I guess it's because the i-miev wasn't a ground up EV they just used the heater core from the ICE powered version of the car.

You can get a reverse cycle valve and have the stock unit modified by a automotive refrigeration mechanic. Its not a hard thing to do.extra button on the dash & a regas of your AC unit after it was plumbed in.

79-Reverse-cycle-valve.jpg

http://www.evworks.com.au/index.php?product=AIR-AC-RCVALVE

Kurt
 
WyVern,
I am keen to hear more from you on range and performance of you i-miev in local conditions- temps and terrain roads Brisbane has surprising undulating terrain.Have you driven it up Mt cootha yet? That's 287m above sea level and reasonable steep. I have ridden from The Gap on my electric recumbent trike up to the lookout at Mt cootha lots of times sure suck the power on the climb. The climb up into the hinterland on the sunshine coast would be like going up Mt cootha 2 times I would say.

I don't use AC on the drive up to the sunshine coast even in summer as its always night time when I am going up there. Return trip is always Sunday evening so again AC isn't essential. Brisbane day time- summer though I wouldn't drive a car without AC.

I have the wife approval to buy a imiev and that isn't a easy thing to accomplish :lol: What was the deal you got on yours $24,000 new? And if so was that advertised price or after some haggling. I have seen $26,990 drive away. and demonstrators sub 500km for 23ish.



Kurt
 
Haven't been up to Mt Cootha in it yet as I am down at Yatala so I'm more likely to head up Tamborine way at some point, I'll update you when I do.

As for the deal I got it was for a new 2012 car with 19km on the clock. They asked $25,977 and I negotiated $3k for a trade in that they initially valued at $1k. So finance of $22k plus my old bomb saw me on the road.

I have no doubt whatsoever that if you offered a dealer between 22 and 23k for a brand new one they would take you up on it just to move it along. Now the leaf has dropped in price they will simply not shift them here in QLD. That's a great shame, but great for bargain hunters.
 
Great,
Just the parts alone to build my own ev would be 20k min. We have cash so hopefully they will help some to. Funny how you see them listed $26,999 and other dealers are listing as $38,000. The pricing is all over the shot.

whats dose the sock AU charger at. I know its a 15A plug but dose it only charge at 10A - 2400w or dose it use the full 15A -3600w?

Edit: Just got of the phone to a dealer in Brisbane with I white I-meiv new. Advertising for 29k but looks like we will be able to work out a similar deal to yourself.

Kurt
 
Fairly sure it uses around 12/13A, takes around 7 hrs I think (never timed, I just leave it overnight).

I had the socket installed for around $430 although there was a significant run length involved. Then I bought a double hook to spring mount the charger near the socket so I didn't have to keep uncoiling the full cable length.

Works like a charm.

Really glad you got a deal lined up, if you ever need a top up and cuppa drop me a line ;)
 
offgridQLD said:
Oh that is a very nasty way to heat the car :shock: I guess it's because the i-miev wasn't a ground up EV they just used the heater core from the ICE powered version of the car.

You can get a reverse cycle valve and have the stock unit modified by a automotive refrigeration mechanic. Its not a hard thing to do.extra button on the dash & a regas of your AC unit after it was plumbed in.

79-Reverse-cycle-valve.jpg

http://www.evworks.com.au/index.php?product=AIR-AC-RCVALVE

Kurt

This is an interesting modification for heat. Living in a cold weather zone, I'm thinking this could be a good idea. I wonder how it would work on the i-MiEV? Then we would have the nifty heat pump that the Leaf is offering and be more efficient than our heater setup. I'm wondering also if the solenoid could be hooked into the existing panel switch (the red zone on the HVAC dial)? Then it would work as factory. Hmmmm.
 
WyVern said:
Then I bought a double hook to spring mount the charger near the socket so I didn't have to keep uncoiling the full cable length.

Any pics of this spring-mounted device? I, too, am looking for a way to keep the cord nicely coiled while I charge. Fortunately, I'm able to park only 3-4 feet away from the L2 charger and only have to uncoil the first loop. Nice and easy to keep it clean that way.
 
MLucas said:
offgridQLD said:
Oh that is a very nasty way to heat the car :shock: I guess it's because the i-miev wasn't a ground up EV they just used the heater core from the ICE powered version of the car.

You can get a reverse cycle valve and have the stock unit modified by a automotive refrigeration mechanic. Its not a hard thing to do.extra button on the dash & a regas of your AC unit after it was plumbed in.

79-Reverse-cycle-valve.jpg

http://www.evworks.com.au/index.php?product=AIR-AC-RCVALVE

Kurt

This is an interesting modification for heat. Living in a cold weather zone, I'm thinking this could be a good idea. I wonder how it would work on the i-MiEV? Then we would have the nifty heat pump that the Leaf is offering and be more efficient than our heater setup. I'm wondering also if the solenoid could be hooked into the existing panel switch (the red zone on the HVAC dial)? Then it would work as factory. Hmmmm.

As far as I know, most heat-pumps are only efficient as heaters down to the freezing point. Below freezing, they stop producing meaningful heat. I'm sure technology improves and the Leaf system seems to be of benefit down to about 10 degrees below freezing, but it is actually a 'hybrid' system with an i-MiEV style PTC heater built in as well. Therefore, for a majority of time during the Canadian winter, the range would not be substantially better than with our heater.
It would definitely improve the car's efficiency in the fall and spring transitional periods, so it still may be worth exploring if you know a good AC technician.
 
HParkEV said:
As far as I know, most heat-pumps are only efficient as heaters down to the freezing point. Below freezing, they stop producing meaningful heat. I'm sure technology improves and the Leaf system seems to be of benefit down to about 10 degrees below freezing, but it is actually a 'hybrid' system with an i-MiEV style PTC heater built in as well. Therefore, for a majority of time during the Canadian winter, the range would not be substantially better than with our heater.
I was getting ready to post the same thing - A pure reverse cycle heat pump is nearly useless in below freezing temps which is probably why Mitsu went the way they did, with a pure resistance heating system

While I prefer to be as green as possible, if I owned an iMiEV in really cold country, I wouldn't hesitate to install one of the compact kerosene/diesel powered water heaters in the coolant loop like so many folks in Norway have done. They use very little fuel (they come with just a 1 gallon tank I believe) and they produce REAL heat, which will not only keep you warm, but also keep the windows clear which is our major problem here where we have high humidity levels in the winter

http://www.webasto.com/int/markets-products/car/retrofit-parking-heater/our-parking-heaters/small-cars/

Since the battery already doesn't take you quite as far when it's really cold out, it would be nice to have no heating load on it at all

Don
 
Yes heat pumps are not the best option sub zero temps. Keep having to remind myself a lot of the world has to deal with this every year. While I still need heating in a car in my climate its not usually for keeping me warm but more for defogging the windows.

It's winter now, last night the temp was 15C driving to our offgrid house in the evening. So not cold but had been raining and humid air. The cars interior fogged up within 5 min of driving. If you Turn the heater and fan on to defog the front window it eventually works but you have to have it that hot it just makes the cabin unbearable hot. So you end up putting the AC unit on to defog the window. That instantly defogs the window but now the cabin is freezing so at the same time you turn the heating on 1/2 way :lol: I find this seting (AC on & heater dial on 1/2) Essentially the two systems fighting each other its silly but its very common setting that's needed for early morning or evening driving in my area that works (conventional car). Boy that would suck some serious juice from the i-miev. So I feel a heat pump valve so I could get some heat but more so the dehumidifying benefits would be useful on a i- miev saving the drain of both systems heater & Ac on at the same time.

Ps,
We went to make a deal on a new white 2012 plate I-miev yesterday afternoon. After a lot of negotiation we ended up walking out over $1000. Offering cash we were not going to pay anymore than $23,000. They wanted 24k. Oh well they have my number so perhaps I will get a call next week :?

Fairly sure it uses around 12/13A, takes around 7 hrs I think (never timed, I just leave it overnight).

Ok i think it Must be only 10A at 240v - 2400w. Based on 16kw / 7 = 2285w but more likely 2400w - 10A and there is some charging losses .
They just use a 15A plug so people don't use undersized $2 bell wire extension cords from Kmart .

Kurt
 
Hi Kurt,
I'd say the Aussie ones are similar to the NZ ones, and our ones as standard, draw 13 amps for 7 or less seconds, then drop to 9.5 amps for most of the charge, then drop to 4 to 5 amps for the rest of the charge.

This means a normal NZ house plug / socket, rated to 10 amps will get warm to the touch, not hot, if left on overnight for a long charge, similar to what happens on a 2, 400 watt heater plugged into the wall socket.

For best safety, I'd suggest that a new 20 amp fixed wire line be mated to a 15 amp socket. Then it won't get warm.

The other thing you could do is import a modified iMiEV or Nissan leaf ESEV,from esevupgrades.com, which tells the on board charger how much power is available to draw from the wall socket.

You can then set it to a lower rate, say 7 amps and the 10 amp wall socket won't get warm or set it to higher if you are somewhere the 15 amp sockets are installed.

The on board charger only goes to 3.3 Kw so about 13.75 amps max.

Having the ability to lower the charge rate to say 1,600 watts also means you can recharge on the side of the road via a carried Honda 2000i , 1,600 watt inverter generator to get you those last few kms short of range back in the battery.

takes about 5 minutes or so per km restored roughly. So say you were about 15 km short on range, and pulled over for a coffee and a bite to eat, pulled out the quiet generator, plugged in and recharged for say 70 minute, you should have about enough to get home. :)

Oh, the standard iMiEV ESEV plug is 15 amps, but getting an adaptor such as an ampfibian would make it easy and safe to plug in at most sockets that are 10 amps if you check on the temp of the wall socket from time to time. The ratings are within safety specs but getting close to the limits. But the iMiEV is less loadwise to say a 2.4 Kw heater.


If you need a faster charger, there is a portable Coffee and Charge one, for about $ 37, 000 online I think, will be getting one when they get to $ 27, 000.

iMiEVNZ7
 
The other thing you could do is import a modified iMiEV or Nissan leaf ESEV,from esevupgrades.com,

Can you provide a link to this ESEV? couldn't find anything goggling upgrades.com.

is this what you are referring to http://www.ebay.com/itm/J1772-EVSE-...222?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a82f5e136

I like the idea of being able to set the charge rate to what ever I like . At times I can have 7000w to spare (sunny day around lunch time) and some days like today (raining) I might only have 1000w to spare . Being able to set the charge rate could be ferry handy in my offgrid situation.

The little 20kg 1600w honda generator in a nice soft case in the trunk might be nice piece of mind when your testing that trips the first time on the cuff of max range.

Isnt the high speed charger (standard feature Au models) Just a direct DC feed? as in skip's the on board AC charger all together and just uses the external AC-DC fixed charger.?

Plugs at home are not a issue I have a workshop with several industrial 15A outlets even a dedicated 32A 240v industrial outlet for the plasma cutter. Though I would need to install A new outlet at the city house.
 
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