Winter Driving

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DonDakin said:
Hi All,

I Finally had my first winter problem with my imiev.....

For some unexplained reason the car would no longer move forward.....

I guess Ev's are bad winter cars......

Don... :D

Don, that's a good start, but methinks you had insufficient momentum to complete the job.
Look to the Tango for inspiration! ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhGCLnAPG88
 
Thanks true. I didn't have too much distance to accelerate.

On the winter note:

Hi all,

Coldest temps yesterday and today. The car is fine performance wise.

I started using the catalytic heater to boost the heat in the car and use less of the electric heat. These are all just proof of concept tests for me.
to see what can be done. I have a really short commute to work and most of our running around in the area is pretty close well within 30 miles.
I'm sure that the stock heater car is fine for most of our needs even when it's -20 Deg C if you can live with the lower range or you are really burly.....
But it's interesting to see what can be done to extend range.
Setting the coleman heater down on the floor in between my feet seems to work fine. I have a fan blowing on it to circulate the heat and remove hot spots.
That really helps. I'm starting to build up a few winter pics of our little car "zippy". Here is one:

ECtD2.jpg


Don
 
DonDakin, thanks for the photos and updates. It's so nice to see the iMiEV doing well in your environment. That photo of -17degC is a temperature unheard-of around here. :shock: Nice idea to have a fan blow across the catalytic heater. Perhaps a bit crowded down by your feet?

As we headed off down the hill to town on a frosty morning a couple of days ago, the iMiEV alarm dinged and the snowflake appeared, just before a notorious reverse-slope curve in the road. This woke me up enough to pay special attention, and as we rounded the frosty/icy curve we came across our new neighbor - he had spun out, whapped a tree, and ended up in the ditch with a totaled minivan. He's ok. Thank you Mitsubishi for the temperature alarm! :p
 
Today we had a 72 KM round trip at between -5 and -10 deg C.

Started with a full charge did 35 KM outbound charged for 3 hours and 37 KM back. 4 people in the car. All highway at between 70 and 90 KM/hour.
It was very sunny on the way out at 1:00 -5 Deg C no heat and just the defroster on one notch with ambient air coming in /4 heated seats going to keep the windows clear. On the way back about -10 Deg C at 4:30 sun was mostly down I had the catalytic heater on with the fan on 2 notches and 1 notch of heat/ 1 notch of defrost fan all 4 heated seats on, headlights on.
The windshield cleared out mostly a little fog at the top but clear enough to drive OK.

Arrived with 4 bars left no problems and no one complaining they were cold. I could have probably made it with more electric heat and no propane but it's nice to have the margin.
I probably had another 30 KM left until turtle in that configuration. Which would bring me to 102 KM total range with the 3 extra hours of charging in those temps with about 550 Lbs of people in the car. Not too shabby.

I did do a little rework on the heater/fan position to get it more out of the way. I'll post more pics of the heater when/if I get a chance.

All and all a satisfying drive......

Don
 
My experience for the coldest day this year
3 Jan 2013


This just happened to fall on a day I had to drive a 140 km (87 miles) round trip.

Charged level 2 full overnight in heated garage and preheated the car for 15 minutes.
Commute started out at 5:35 am - outside temps were -26 C, ( -15 F )
Car was warm & toasty on departure , fully dressed in full winter gear , parka, wool hat, ski gloves, winter boots. Armed with both front heated seats, Electric Car lap blanket, and Coleman 3,000 btu heater
THE CABIN HEATER WAS NOT USED ON THIS TRIP IN ORDER TO EXTEND THE RANGE

Departure
70 km ( 43.5 miles ) route into the city - mostly 50-70 kmph ( 30- 45 mph ) speeds, light holiday traffic conditions

Only heat used was both seat heaters , Lap blanket acted as a heat trap for seat heater and kept the legs warm,
I had to keep the fan on medium to high speed on full defrost, front drivers and rear passenger windows cracked open to control frost from forming on the windshield, and occasionally used the rear window defroster.

Performance of the car - nothing different in its performance

Dropped of my better half off at the train station 17 km (11.5 miles) & 25 minutes later,
Turned passenger seat heater off. The car had cooled off by then, -
Once the interior of the car had cooled down, the humidity that was icing up the windows was easier to control , one less body & I guess the wet carpets had frozen solid.
The drive went well , light traffic, arrived at destination at 7: am.
Started charging immediately with modified level 1 charger.

Surprise was that the bars on the Energy scale resembled pretty much the same as any other normal temperature day for this same commute ,
- the RR gauge was more conservative with it's reading - I wonder if it's tied in to the temperature gauge.

The city was warmer and temps went up during the day to -16C, ( 3 F )



Return trip - 70km, (43.5 miles)

4:00 pm - Temperature was around -16 C , ( 3 F ) preheated the car for 20 minutes before unplugging and started the commute home. Light traffic ,
Reading on RR was 102 km, ( 63.5 miles)
The car had cooled of all day and it was cold getting into it even with the preheating.
Kept the heated seat on all the time, had to use the car heater to defrost the windshield at first for 4-5 minutes to clear the windshield , Should have preheated longer.

Drove about 10 km, (6 miles )
(15 minutes) and then decided it was time to try out the electric blanket with power.
The heat was non existent or so it seamed, but helped , feet were now getting cold.

Drove another 10km, ( 6 miles) and decided it was time to pull out the big guns , fired up the 3,000 btu Coleman catalytic heater, without the on board fan.

Link to photos of my installation - http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=224&start=40

The next 40 km, ( 25 mile ) - on route to the train station to pick up my wife.
At first (5 minutes) it seemed like the heater was having little effect so I turned on the circulating fan and it helped a lot but temps were very slow to warm up, feet were still very cold

I arrived at the stations 45 minutes early, pretty cold and a little low on power.
I plugged in level 2 charger, sat in the car, kept the Coleman heater on with fan, and used the remote to start the defrost preheat. 15 minutes later the car was comfortable and by the time the train arrived the car was warm -
But the feet were already cold and the floor felt like a block of ice.

It seemed like charging up was very slow to raise the RR reading at these temperatures with the preheating on. .

The last leg home we had both seat heaters on, powered up & shared the electric blanket, & the Coleman heater with fan on.
Made it home with 10 km left on the RR gauge .

My Conclusions on extending the range in these extreme temperatures -

1) When you go from a warm garage for long drive - (more then 1/2 hr)
turn on the auxiliary (propane) heater as soon as you feel the temperatures dropping off sharply, don't wait for the car to freeze up - 3,000 btu are maybe enough to sustain a comfort level not enough to bring up temperatures

2) To bring the temperature up in a car that has been parked outside for hours at these temperatures, with out plugging in, is very energy consuming. - best done preheating Defrost mode, plugged in at level 2 for at least 1/2 - 3/4 hour before departure.

3) Once the car is cooled off, the floor is the coldest, and the most difficult to heat up. and the feet are the first to suffer.

4) The temperature had little effect on the cars performance.

Still a great little car
 
Do the Canadian models come with a heated passenger seat also? Our USA version has a heated driver seat only. Do you have two dash switches to turn the heated seats on/off separately?

Thanks for posting your experiences - It's amazing (to me anyway) that the car performs as well as it does in sub-zero temperatures. Even in our temperate climate down here, I find the heating system barely adequate to heat the car . . . . I can only imagine what it must be like driving it under such conditions. There are few things I really miss from driving one of our ICE vehicles, but the abundance of heat is certainly one of them. I fully understand that all that heat comes from wasting fossil fuels, but I still miss it and the ability to quickly defrost the windows in colder temps

Don
 
Don said:
Do the Canadian models come with a heated passenger seat also? Our USA version has a heated driver seat only. Do you have two dash switches to turn the heated seats on/off separately?

No - Not mine
I added a Canadian Tire aftermarket seat heater cushion for the font passenger and an accessory plug switched multiplier in the power outlet
 
Hi Sandy,

You are really pushing the limits.....

I would agree, I didn't do as much milage and it's "warmer" in the city him but it looks like the colder temps don't seems to reduce range. It's really only the heater that lowers the range not the lower temps.

In terms of maintaining range Sandy is right the best way to minimize range loss due to cold is to keep the car inside and prewarm it as much as you can.

Then add some combustion heat to maintain the cabin temp that as long as you can. It's inevitable the car will eventually loose heat. The best you can do is
loose heat as a rate that is tolerable and step out at your destination with the lowest temp of the journey.

For the feet I suggest heated insoles they are very warm and take almost no power. It makes a real difference.

One thing I was wondering is why the charge rate drops while your preheating. If the L2 can deliver 30 amps that would be tons of power for the heater as well at the charger. Unless somehow the
wiring does not allow more then 16 amps at the inlet. Does anyone know what's going on with that ?

I think the real answer is to add a combustion heater in the hot water loop for very cold temps. A nice project for next year.....

Don......
 
DonDakin said:
One thing I was wondering is why the charge rate drops while your preheating. If the L2 can deliver 30 amps that would be tons of power for the heater as well at the charger. Unless somehow the wiring does not allow more then 16 amps at the inlet. Does anyone know what's going on with that?
No matter what you plug it into, the EVSE will only pull about 14.5 amps @ 240 VAC from your outlet because the charger is only capable about 3300 watts . . . . a charge rate of roughly 10 amps @ 330 volts DC

Since the heater runs off the 330 volts DC, (and not the 240 VAC you have the EVSE plugged into) it's consuming some of the 3300 watts the charger is putting out - Actually, at a high setting, the heater will consume ALL of the 3300 watt output of the charger, since the heater can draw as much as 5,000 watts depending on it's setting

So - Heating while charging will cause reduced charging and possibly no charging at all, depending on how much heat you have the heater set for

Don
 
fjpod, ask and you shall receive, grin.

http://www.floormat.com/heated-mats/heated-car-mat.html
 
this looks cool, er warmish. Run it from a couple of 120 amp hour 12 volt batteries like gel or agms or lithiums.

http://www.roadtrucker.com/12-volt-heating/300-watt-12-volt-heater.htm
 
At one point you might need to evaluate , how many times (5-10 days a year), you would be driving in these conditions, & extending the range, and how much time and money you want to invest.

I think once there are fast charge stations available the easiest thing would be to use the car heating system, and charge more often.

I like the idea of heated floors (mats) , ( I have then in our home, and they are comfortable) but I can see a problem with the go pedal foot getting cold.
 
sandange, thank you for the detailed post. Fascinating reading for those of us in warmer climes. I'm amazed at the amount of techie gear available nowadays for dealing with cold climates. For example, these foot warmers consume a negligible amount of energy compared to our car. I agree with you, a benefit/cost anlaysis is in order before blithely buying this stuff.
 
It's sure been cold in Taos ... down to -21F at our house the other night. The car is stored in a garage heated to +50F where it's charged. We have Dunlop Graspics on the car, so the "normal" range for us is down from the low 90s to around 80 on a charge. We haven't noticed this lessen during the cold, probably because we charge in a heated garage. We've hesitated to take the car out when it's much below 0F, so haven't had any issues really.

I did get stuck in the snow the other day in a friend's driveway. The driveway is normally in rough shape: dirt/rock, high center ridge, slopes to left, and deep ditches on both sides. Ground clearance is marginal for our car. I drove in and made the mistake of slowing down a bit as I rounded a curve. The car began a slide down to the left, and both left front and rear tires wound up in the ditch. Yeah yeah in the back of my head somewhere I'd read that the ASC included traction control, but of course didn't think about that at the time. The traction battery light came on when I tried to move forward or backward. So I called an EV buddy here in town who brought over his tow strap, and we wound up using a Subaru with AWD to pull the iMiEV forward and back onto the driveway. My buddy, a Tesla fan, did his homework and called me later to tell me about how the ASC works in the iMiEV ... it's possible I could have driven out of the ditch, but maybe not.

Lesson learned.
 
I hit a slippery spot in a curve while in heavy regen :roll: , so the rear end slid briefly and I got the expected ASC input and warning light, but lost all accelerator authority for several seconds- long enough to coast a few hundred feet, think about it, and shift in and out of Neutral before the car 'allowed me' to resume acceleration. Any ideas why?
 
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