TPMS on i-MiEVs

[Don]

Getting ready to (finally) mount my BMW Mini 15 X 5.5 wheels on one of our cars and while searching for TPMS sensors to put in the new wheels I ran across this Mitsu TSB which covers our cars

https://www.schradersensors.com/sites/default/files/2017-07/Mitsubishi_tsb1231001_0.pdf

Lots of useful information in there for anyone searching for facts on the subject

As you can see from the following list, just about every other manufacturer provides for some way for an owner or any knowledgeable technician with an inexpensive tool to sync new sensors to the car . . . . but not Mitsu!

http://jameshalderman.com/images/tpms_procedures.pdf

Don

 

[Don]

From what I have read . . . . take that for what it's worth . . . . you can reset the car to a new, second set of sensors with this tool which plugs in to the OBD port - https://www.amazon.com/ATEQ-QuickSet-TPMS-Reset-Tool/dp/B008SCWXN4/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1514838503&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=ateq+quickset+tpms+reset+tool&psc=1 . . . . but, you also have to use this tool on each individual tire to trigger each sensor so the car can learn the new code - https://www.amazon.com/Autel-TS401-Activation-MX-sensor-Programming/dp/B00AERMVYC/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1514838792&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=autel+ts401&psc=1

Good news is the Quick Set tool stores the information for two sets of sensors, so you don't have to go through the reprogramming function every time you change tires

They claim this procedure works *even on Mitsus* and some Amazon reviews seem to back that up

A bit on the expensive side, but for those of you who drive on snow tires part of the year and then regular tires the rest of the year, it would be much cheaper than paying a Mitsu dealer $100 every time you change tires - Not to mention the hassle of having to drive 40 or 60 miles to and from the dealer

Damn shame Mitsu didn't make this a much easier procedure, but I think they were trying to keep their fledgling dealerships afloat by requiring everyone to take their cars there twice per year for 'service'

Don

 

[JoeS]

Don, thanks for the links and discussion. Glad I don't have to deal with the biannual (=semiannual) ritual of snow tires.

Of note:

- Expected battery life is between five and ten years, depending on the sensor.
- The battery is sealed inside the sensor and not serviceable.
- DTCs C1910, C1920, C1930, & C1940 indicate low sensor battery voltage in individual tires.

 

[Don]

Of note:

- Expected battery life is between five and ten years, depending on the sensor.
- The battery is sealed inside the sensor and not serviceable.
- DTCs C1910, C1920, C1930, & C1940 indicate low sensor battery voltage in individual tires.

Yes, that means we're all going to be dealing with this in the not so distant future. New sensors (pre-programmed specifically for an iMiEV) are $99 for a set of 4 on eBay - About half the dealer's price

Incidentally, the scan tool reads all sorts of info from the sensor, including those codes. Also, you can use the tool to adjust your tire pressure to 1/4 pound of any number you want. I had no idea they were capable of reading pressures to 1/4 pound!

Don

 

[Don]

Well, after installing my new Continentals on my new BMW Mini wheels I can report that the TPMS 'issue' - so far as an iMiEV is concerned - is far from settled

I bought a set of 4 new sensors from Amazon advertised as being specifically programmed for the iMiEV and had them installed when they mounted my new tires. What followed was two months of calls and emails trying to get that warning light on the dash extinguished. The shop that installed the tires had an $1800 TPMS tool which has always worked on every single make and model they've tried it on and after 3 return trips to the shop, it became evident that it wasn't going to work on my car - Thankfully, they didn't charge me anything for all the trouble.

I went through 4 or 5 different 'techs' at the California company that sells the sensors and got nowhere. Eventually, in frustration, I asked for a refund and was transferred to someone I hadn't spoken to yet . . . . and I though i had talked to them all

"What can I do for you?" - Well, I bought your product specifically programmed to work with my car and I'd really like for it to do that. Since the sensors are already mounted in the wheels, I'd much rather have them working than get my money back. I 'thought' you might refer me to someone in my local area who can do that, but after 6 or 8 phone calls and several emails, nobody has offered to do that

He called around to my local tire stores, looking for one which had a specific brand of TPMS learning tool which he claimed was the only one that would work and when he found one, he sent me there. They worked for nearly an hour with that specified tool, to no avail. Finally, in desperation, they tried some other tool that they had previously used on only one other car . . . . and it worked!

No idea which tool was used, but after trips to three different stores, I can attest to the fact that none of the 'usual' TPMS tools which work on 95% of all other makes and models will work on this car.

I have no doubt that if you took it to a Mitsu dealer and they hooked it to a MUT III, you could get your new sensors programmed in 5 minutes . . . . probably for a $75 fee - 1/2 hour minimum. Which at this point, might be the lesser of all evils. Unfortunately, I don't have a Mitsu dealer closer than 100 miles

So - If you're getting new sensors, hopefully you have a Mitsu dealer close by

Don

 

[hjdlsnbc]

3 pages of forum discussion on where/who you have to pay for TPMS coding.
Can TPMS and its yellow/orange light be fully disabled with MUT3 on Mitsubishi and/or Diagbox on Peugeot/Citroen cars? Any other technical experiences what TPMS-configurations could be changed with CAN-Bus? Does CAN-Bus logfiles ready for download exist that include some TPMS-communicantion data?
I am not interested in any information who i should pay to do that for me.

 

[hjdlsnbc]

Is it known to someone how TPMS on the i-miev is been implemented? Since over a year i try to find out how to disable it on a Peugeot/Citroen version of the i-miev sold in europe.
There was no response at my message here: https://myimiev.com/threads/tpms-on-i-mievs.1881/page-2#post-45700

kolyandex started to sell a USB-key explicitly for the i-miev BMU/EV-ECU MH8106F here:
https://ecutools.eu/chip-tuning/mitsubishi-flasher/mitsubishi-ev/
What is supported with this usb key for so much money?

@piev
You seem to have the OpenPort 2.0 hardware that is famous for mitsubishi cars. Could you run the software from kolyandex named MMCodingWriter like described here https://www.evoxforums.com/threads/how-to-disable-tpms.403879/ and tell if the software is supporting the EV-ECU or just showing some error about unsupported ECU?

 

[hjdlsnbc]

Could someone test this MMCodingWriter software from kolyandex if its compatible with the ECU in the i-miev? https://www.evoxforums.com/threads/how-to-disable-tpms.403879/
I do not want to spend much money on a compatible hardware just to realize that the software does not support the ECU in the car.

 

[piev]

Could someone test this MMCodingWriter software from kolyandex if its compatible with the ECU in the i-miev? https://www.evoxforums.com/threads/how-to-disable-tpms.403879/
I do not want to spend much money on a compatible hardware just to realize that the software does not support the ECU in the car.

I use Tactrix openport and MUT software from Kolyandex. He did tell me that his MMCodingWriter does not support i-MiEV.

He said he can remote into your computer and do it for you but he won't sell the software.

 

[piev]

Is it known to someone how TPMS on the i-miev is been implemented? Since over a year i try to find out how to disable it on a Peugeot/Citroen version of the i-miev sold in europe.
There was no response at my message here: https://myimiev.com/threads/tpms-on-i-mievs.1881/page-2#post-45700

kolyandex started to sell a USB-key explicitly for the i-miev BMU/EV-ECU MH8106F here:
https://ecutools.eu/chip-tuning/mitsubishi-flasher/mitsubishi-ev/
What is supported with this usb key for so much money?

@piev
You seem to have the OpenPort 2.0 hardware that is famous for mitsubishi cars. Could you run the software from kolyandex named MMCodingWriter like described here https://www.evoxforums.com/threads/how-to-disable-tpms.403879/ and tell if the software is supporting the EV-ECU or just showing some error about unsupported ECU?

I don't think I ever downloaded MMCodingWriter. I will let you know.

 

[kiev]

The TPMS control unit is likely too smart to be easily defeated.

i have looked into reverse engineering the TPMS unit in a suzuki forenza. It has a 48-pin microcontroller, OKAJ241; an 8-pin Microchip PIC marked 185A; another little 16-pin quad device; and an Infineon TDA 5211 radio receiver.

The microcontroller drives 2 power transistor circuits, one to provide a ground path for the tire warning lamp circuit, and the other to beep the horn by providing a ground path for the horn relay coil.

It is not on the CAN buss, but uses the K-serial line for communications.

It has connections to a bunch of weird seemingly non-tpms places: the transmission vehicle speed sensor, the high side of the parking brake switch, the headlight switch parking-light position terminal, the "L" terminal of the voltage regulator on the generator/alternator, and there is another input circuit to the micro that is populated on the board but for which is not shown in the factory wiring diagrams.

Even if you remove the control unit, the lamp blinks for awhile, then continues to illuminate--WTH! It must have self-test and other diagnostics on the K-line.

Microchip has a good application note, AN238 , which explains how TPMS works from their viewpoint.

Where is the control unit located in the meiv--i could pull one out and trace that board.

[Thanks to Joe for moving some of these posts together into the TPMS thread]

 

[hjdlsnbc]

@kiev wrote here https://myimiev.com/threads/firmware-for-charger-bmu-cmus.4121/post-49375

Even if you remove the control unit, the lamp blinks for awhile, then continues to illuminate--WTH! It must have self-test and other diagnostics on the K-line.

This seem to be related to suzuki forenza like he wrote before in the text.
Later in the text he wrote:

Where is the control unit located in the meiv--i could pull one out and trace that board.

This would be great to know if removing the TPMS board out from the imiev does anything. Without TPMS in the tires the TPMS-light its first blinking and after a while it changes to always-on mode.

The service manual is simply telling about TPMS board removal:

Refer to GROUP 54A - ETACS-ECU

I attached a pdf file from the service manual where it just show the place of the ETACS-ECU and how to remove the ETACS-ECU.
In the PDF(the version for left hand drive):
1. Junction block
2. ETACS-ECU
3. Junction block bracket

As we know, TPMS in cars is 433Mhz frequency. Where is the antenna for this? The key-fob used to open the doors is 868Mhz frequency. TPMS is using a different antenna then the key-fob.
I hope you could make some great pictures of the TPMS board and where its placed.

For the people who want to use the TPMS maybe a useful information from the service manual:

If the TPMS transmitter is replaced, execute "Tyre Pressure Sensor ID Registration" on M.U.T.-III "Special Function."

 

[kiev]

For the Suzuki version, the TDA 5211 receiver operates at 315 to 350 MHz. The Antenna is soldered to the circuit board inside the control unit plastic housing.

 

[hjdlsnbc]

This is getting insane. I spend many hours to get MUT-3 SE finally working. In there you can see the separate section for TPMS. But also there i was not able to find option to disable it. I can put it in a learning mode, i can add a second set of sensors, but i can not find any option there to disable TPMS.
The ETACS coding in MUT-3 SE also do not show any options to disable TPMS.
I seem to now have to extract the config file out of the ETACS, have to modify it outside of Diagbox/MUT-3 and then write it back to ETACS.

@kolyandex was also asked to add support for the imiev in MMCodingWriter but he refused. It seems like MMCodingWriter wont be updated any more at any time. This is sad, becase @kolyandex now know everything what is required to add support in MMCodingWriter for the imiev.

It would be great to get some help with this task. If someone have some additional information i missed here, please add it here.

 

[Rational]

This is getting insane. I spend many hours to get MUT-3 SE finally working.

Same here. But almost there I think.

Glad you are also working so hard on it and sharing your results and information. It all helps. I will do the same.

I'm not too happy with kolyandex going silent this past year it seems. It doesn't make me want to spend money with him.

But ParisCY seems to be sharing a lot of good info on that mh-auto forum. I really hope his .dll works to enable MUT3 finally.

I'm not a programmer unfortunately so the effort to learn to code in order to understand this is unlikely to fit into my schedule.

But I will do all I can to learn and share details of tests and results to help others here as much as possible.

 

[jray3]

Thanks to you all, @Rational, @kiev and @hjdlsnbc! I'm still annoyed by losing TPMS on my winter tires/second set of rims and am not willing to pay the dealer twice per year to synch up a dozen wheels! The news that MUT-SE can add a "second set of sensors" is promising. Can you post any tips on how to educate my dealer to associate two sets of TPMS with each MiEV?

 

[hjdlsnbc]

@jray3
To your issue there are different solutions:
1. Get yourself cloned sensors for the winter tires. Those have the same id like the summer tires and then the car just see maybe some pressure change when tires got changed.
2. You can grab the MUT-3 SE computer of the dealer and click there to TPMS and then point with your finger to the option to add a second set of sensors and ask the dealer why he does not do this. I have not tested this option on my own because i want to get rid of TPMS and not do the opposite thing and add sensors i do not even own a single set of.
3. Do this thing on your own. Either change the sensor ID twice a year on your own or try out the option to add a second set of ID. For such a simple task probably a cheap cloned OpenPort 2.0 from aliexpress would be enough. Spending about 20$ once to have MUT-3 SE working that can also have other benefits does probably make more sense instead of paying twice your dealer to do TPMS ID changes.
You probably can also get this done with Diagbox hardware, but such a cloned hardware interface cost more then cloned OpenPort 2.0, you would probebly need for every time you do this telecoding-credits and so on.

 

[hjdlsnbc]

Because @Rational wrote :

I wouldn't mind adding TPMS sensors to my car. But I don't think it has it being a base model from 2010.

Lets also add the answer to that to this topic:
The model year 2013 and before did not had TPMS build into the ETACS-ECU. It have been added in model year 2015 and newer.
Side note: A model year 2014, 2016 and 2018 does not exist.

 

[Rational]

Because @Rational wrote :

I wouldn't mind adding TPMS sensors to my car. But I don't think it has it being a base model from 2010.

Lets also add the answer to that to this topic:
The model year 2013 and before did not had TPMS build into the ETACS-ECU. It have been added in model year 2015 and newer.
Side note: A model year 2014, 2016 and 2018 does not exist.

Thanks for that answer.

And I believe JDM models are one year ahead of the foreign market cars. So my 2011 JDM model year is actually a 2012 elsewhere.