Why not a RoadPro heater?

[justoneman]

With 120vac available at work, that's not a bad commute at all!
My own rules of thumb -
With an 8A 120vac EVSE, the replenish rate is four bars for five hours of charging.
With a 12A 120vac EVSE, the replenish rate is six bars for five hours of charging.
With your nine hours at work, you should comfortably get plenty of juice to get you home. Plug in at home, and you're full by next-morning's commute.
Stop-and-go traffic is actually very easy on the consumption, except in winter - and you've just created your "fix" for that! Worst hit is the 70mph highway stretch, and since that accounts for half your commute distance, you can always adjust your speed to fit your needs.
Hey, you'll have all summer to get used to controlling your consumption in a benign environment, so when winter hits you'll be all set! We've found that using the air conditioner results in a minimal hit to the car's range.

Its a little more complicated than that. I do not have a dedicated spot at work to charge. I am moving my car into a position I may have only for a few hours. As it is I am charging between 3 and 5 hours on average at work. So it enough to make my ride home in the evening not stressful about range. that is about it. The good news is I have a 20 amp outlet in my garage at home. If I plug in a car down to one bar at six in the evening I am fully charged well before dawn.

 

[justoneman]

With 120vac available at work, that's not a bad commute at all!
My own rules of thumb -
With an 8A 120vac EVSE, the replenish rate is four bars for five hours of charging.
With a 12A 120vac EVSE, the replenish rate is six bars for five hours of charging.
With your nine hours at work, you should comfortably get plenty of juice to get you home. Plug in at home, and you're full by next-morning's commute.
Stop-and-go traffic is actually very easy on the consumption, except in winter - and you've just created your "fix" for that! Worst hit is the 70mph highway stretch, and since that accounts for half your commute distance, you can always adjust your speed to fit your needs.
Hey, you'll have all summer to get used to controlling your consumption in a benign environment, so when winter hits you'll be all set! We've found that using the air conditioner results in a minimal hit to the car's range.

I seem to be replenishing (at home) at a rate of at least 7 bars in 5 hours. My outlet is a 20 amp but I am a little confused by the markings on my main service. I have not opened it up to trace the wires back to the garage outlet or tried flipping the breaker to identify. I believe it is a 15 amp breaker. Given the long charge times called out the vehicle on 110, I am surprised at my relatively quick rate of charge.

 

[JoeS]

I seem to be replenishing (at home) at a rate of at least 7 bars in 5 hours. My outlet is a 20 amp but I am a little confused by the markings on my main service. I have not opened it up to trace the wires back to the garage outlet or tried flipping the breaker to identify. I believe it is a 15 amp breaker...

To continue to beat this topic to death - it is the EVSE that dictates how much current the car's charger can draw, and all EVSEs designed to operate on 120vac assume a NEMA 5-15 outlet and thus they limit the ac current to 12A, which meets the requirements that a steady-state load maximum current should be 80% of the circuit rating.

The Duosida is different, as it says it is ok to draw 16A, but to do so requires that the circuit be 20A.

The photograph you posted on the other thread shows a 20A outlet and a proper 20A connector that you are using. We suspect that the car actually draws more than 12A at 120vac, if it is unconstrained. If you have a 15A circuit breaker (you would be wise to check that), then the car could, in fact, draw 15A without the breaker tripping, and that would result in more fuel gauge bars/hour than 12A.

If the circuit is protected by a 15A breaker, then your 20A outlet is not properly matched to the circuit. Perhaps someone replaced a NEMA 5-15 at some time in the past because they had one handy? In any case, I would strongly recommend that you check the circuit breaker as the house wiring may not be sufficient to support a 20A circuit and thus, in your case, perhaps a higher steady-state current.

The question on the table remains: what is the actual current that the i-MiEV draws if the EVSE says to the i-MiEV charger that it is ok for the car to draw up to 16A? Sure be nice if you could measure that for us.

 

[justoneman]

I seem to be replenishing (at home) at a rate of at least 7 bars in 5 hours. My outlet is a 20 amp but I am a little confused by the markings on my main service. I have not opened it up to trace the wires back to the garage outlet or tried flipping the breaker to identify. I believe it is a 15 amp breaker...

To continue to beat this topic to death - it is the EVSE that dictates how much current the car's charger can draw, and all EVSEs designed to operate on 120vac assume a NEMA 5-15 outlet and thus they limit the ac current to 12A, which meets the requirements that a steady-state load maximum current should be 80% of the circuit rating.

The Duosida is different, as it says it is ok to draw 16A, but to do so requires that the circuit be 20A.

The photograph you posted on the other thread shows a 20A outlet and a proper 20A connector that you are using. We suspect that the car actually draws more than 12A at 120vac, if it is unconstrained. If you have a 15A circuit breaker (you would be wise to check that), then the car could, in fact, draw 15A without the breaker tripping, and that would result in more fuel gauge bars/hour than 12A.

If the circuit is protected by a 15A breaker, then your 20A outlet is not properly matched to the circuit. Perhaps someone replaced a NEMA 5-15 at some time in the past because they had one handy? In any case, I would strongly recommend that you check the circuit breaker as the house wiring may not be sufficient to support a 20A circuit and thus, in your case, perhaps a higher steady-state current.

The question on the table remains: what is the actual current that the i-MiEV draws if the EVSE says to the i-MiEV charger that it is ok for the car to draw up to 16A? Sure be nice if you could measure that for us.

I just identified the correct circuit that I am plugged into. It is indeed a 15 amp breaker on that circuit. So the outlet installed in my garage does not match the breaker.

 

[MalcolmReynolds]

Just a quick observation on heating solutions. Why heat the air when you can get heated clothing that uses far less power? Motorcyclists have used 12v heated clothing for years to extend the riding season into the colder parts of the year. It would seem to make sense to use something like this to keep warm and not use a ton of power. Heating clothing items are expensive, but a good investment if you need to stay warm. Have you tried something like that?

 

[Don]

Heated clothing works very well, but it won't defog your windows and that can be a problem in many climates. It doesn't often get cold enough here for it to be a comfort problem on short trips, but we do use the heater a LOT to keep the glass clear

Don

 

[MalcolmReynolds]

Good point, i wasn't thinking about defogging or defrosting the windows. For that you might try applying one of those rear window defrosters on the other windows. Might be kind of tricky as the side windows get rolled up and down. But might work on the windshield as long as the heating element lines don't interfere with your vision.

I haven't looked yet, but does Ventshade have a Ventvisor for the i-Miev? The ability to crack the windows to get some air in the car can help with the fogging windows.

 

[acensor]

Back in April ".justoneman" wrote in part...
".....What I thought I would do this winter was have a household AC heater in the garage and when I got up I would place it in the car and warm the car up inside very hot. You know, while I took a shower getting ready for work. ..."

You probably know this....
But a home AC heater in the car seems unnecessary and of little or no advantage if you are close enough to AC wall plug to use it.:
You can have the car preheat itself using house AC thru the stock or upgraded main traction battery charger while you shower. That not only gets the car pretty hot...and, unlike a portable home Ac heater sitting in the car...it also _preheats_ the MiEV's heater system fluid .

 

[JoeS]

acensor, and how do you propose he do that if he doesn't have a Remote? :roll:

 

[magellan]

I'm looking at this for the windshield
http://www.bimmerworld.com/Safety-Race-Interior/Battery-Electrical/BimmerWorld-Front-Windshield-Defroster-Kit.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwssvPBRBBEiwASFoVd7A9PqTFJUdhXPilVilbMbAtQjKgSCXE6wQqgvYqTGJQ632Qh5BSvxoCyw0QAvD_BwE

 

[jray3]

I'm looking at this for the windshield
http://www.bimmerworld.com/Safety-Race-Interior/Battery-Electrical/BimmerWorld-Front-Windshield-Defroster-Kit.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwssvPBRBBEiwASFoVd7A9PqTFJUdhXPilVilbMbAtQjKgSCXE6wQqgvYqTGJQ632Qh5BSvxoCyw0QAvD_BwE

I like that idea. :idea: Please advise on its success and how much power it draws (or at least what size fuse it uses).

 

[justoneman]

I was charged with the duty to report back on the performance of my RoadPro 12v heater. Since Chicago is well into winter I have some things to say about it. Late in the Autumn I used my RoadPro more as test runs to see how it would do. Temps ranged from ranged from 45F to 32F. I tried several different combination in this time period. I tried just RoadPro no heated seat and no car heat. The Road pro kept me a little bit warm but not completely comfortable. I tried it with the electric seat and found that my feet were a little cold but all else fine. I then tried it with the RoadPro actually down by my feet on the driver side and it warmed my feet fine. But there is not much room down there for the big heater box. But the best in late Autumn was to warm the cabin up with the car heater and then turn it off and maintain with the electric seat warmer and the RoadPro. Great for Autumn.

Next it has been winter weather 32F to 18F. Here the car heater needs to be employed to warm the cabin along with the seat warmer. I turn it on for 5 mins and off for 10 mins. The RoadPro certainly slows down the cabin cooling. Were I not using the RoadPro it would very quickly get cold. Does it heat the car up by itself? Certainly not but it is definitely extending the range of the car because I can have the heat off 2/3 of the time.

Today it was 0 degrees out. I did not drive my Imiev to word. I chickened out I feel that in this very low temp, I would need to run the heat the whole time. my drive to work is 30 miles and so with 100% heat on I would be close to complete battery use. I will wait for slightly warmer temps later this week and see how it does in the 10F to 18F weather.

Over all I think the idea of the isolated 12v battery pack just for the 12v heater extends the range by 5 to 12 miles in Winter.

 

[Don]

Over all I think the idea of the isolated 12v battery pack just for the 12v heater extends the range by 5 to 12 miles in Winter.

Thanks for your observations. If it keeps you from using the car heater, it's gotta be extending your range more than 5 or 10 miles

But, the question remains, does it provide enough heat to make a comfortable trip in cold temps? If you preheat the car using the remote and then run the Road Pro full blast to keep it from cooling off as quickly as it otherwise would, I'm guessing it's fairly practical for the ride to work - How long will the 12 volt battery run it? If you can't plug in at work and preheat for the trip home, you better hope you have enough juice to run the car heater

Is it worth the expense of buying the heater and $100 to $125 for a deep cycle battery to run it? 2 heaters and 2 batteries?

Don

 

[justoneman]

Over all I think the idea of the isolated 12v battery pack just for the 12v heater extends the range by 5 to 12 miles in Winter.

Thanks for your observations. If it keeps you from using the car heater, it's gotta be extending your range more than 5 or 10 miles

But, the question remains, does it provide enough heat to make a comfortable trip in cold temps? If you preheat the car using the remote and then run the Road Pro full blast to keep it from cooling off as quickly as it otherwise would, I'm guessing it's fairly practical for the ride to work - How long will the 12 volt battery run it? If you can't plug in at work and preheat for the trip home, you better hope you have enough juice to run the car heater

Is it worth the expense of buying the heater and $100 to $125 for a deep cycle battery to run it? 2 heaters and 2 batteries?

Don

Yes the 5-12 mile extension is in cold autumn weather. I have not really explored the uber cold weather use too much. I have run the heater 100% several times on the way to work on my 1 hour drive. Still having juice on the way home. I have not run it much on the way home because it would not be so good to drain the battery.

Its a good point about why not two batteries and even two heaters. I would say two would heat the car up in average winter weather.

I bought my gel cell used and the road pro I was luck to get a used one that was never taken out of the box. All still in plastic wrap inside. My whole set up was $100 total.

 

[justoneman]

With the cold blast that the Midwest is experiencing, I have a full range of use of the 12v heater. It is still effective down to just below freezing but the effectiveness quickly is diminished as the temps drop down. At 20 degrees there is still reasonably warm air coming out. At 10 degrees it is only a little bit warm. At 0 degrees temperature outside, there is really no warmth to be felt coming from the unit.

Frankly at temps of 10 degrees and lower even the cars heating system does not heat the car up very well. The car does not have a very effective heating system. Perhaps if the car's heater real got the cabin toasty hot, the little 12v RoadPro might be effective at helping to maintain the cars ambient heat.

 

[jray3]

I've just started using a conventional small ceramic element forced air heater to preheat my old RX-7 EV conversion. It was a pain to tiptoe from bed to car or the extension cord, so I've added a wifi-connected smart switch. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077CZ24JQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The little wifi relay has a simple app that reports Wattage, Amperage, Voltage, and historical consumption, and is working great for heating both on demand and by daily schedule. It was also useful to spot that my old extension cord consumes almost 100 Watts after warming up.

 

[Don]

It was also useful to spot that my old extension cord consumes almost 100 Watts after warming up.

I have a 13 amp vacuum cleaner with what I swear must be an 18/2 cord on it which is about 20 feet long - It has an 'auto reel up' function on it and they do warn you to always pull it all the way out before using the vacuum. Even then, I can feel the cord heat up in my hand when it's running. I'll *bet* the cord is consuming close to 500 watts on that thing!!!

Don

 

[JoeS]

It was also useful to spot that my old extension cord consumes almost 100 Watts after warming up.

I have a 13 amp vacuum cleaner with what I swear must be an 18/2 cord on it which is about 20 feet long - It has an 'auto reel up' function on it and they do warn you to always pull it all the way out before using the vacuum. Even then, I can feel the cord heat up in my hand when it's running. I'll *bet* the cord is consuming close to 500 watts on that thing!!!

#18AWG ==> .006385 ohms/ft
2 * 20'* .006385 = 0.2554 ohms
13A * 13A * 0.2554Ω = 43.2W
What's an order of magnitude amongst friends? :lol:

Yes, I've always been shocked (pun intended) by what manufacturers can get away with then it's considered intermittent-duty.

jray3, what a great gadget! I'm ordering a couple. Thanks.

 

[jray3]

I'm looking at this for the windshield
http://www.bimmerworld.com/Safety-Race-Interior/Battery-Electrical/BimmerWorld-Front-Windshield-Defroster-Kit.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwssvPBRBBEiwASFoVd7A9PqTFJUdhXPilVilbMbAtQjKgSCXE6wQqgvYqTGJQ632Qh5BSvxoCyw0QAvD_BwE

I like that idea. :idea: Please advise on its success and how much power it draws (or at least what size fuse it uses).

I think I've found the supplier to Bimmer World, who of course offers a wider variety at lower prices. I'm eager to try it, but ought to replace MR BEAN's cracked windshield first!
https://www.frostfighter.com/index.htm