sandange
Well-known member
Saw the reveal last night ,
I Liked what I Elon said & what I saw we leave our deposit with Tesla.
I Liked what I Elon said & what I saw we leave our deposit with Tesla.
Tesla Model 3
- Thread starter sandange
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PV1
Well-known member
I know it's a prototype at this point, but I want to ask what nobody else has. Where is the charge port? I know they cleverly hid it behind a reflector on the S and X, but the reflectors are too small on the 3 to hide a charge port.
Also, only one person on the TMC forum mentioned that the red Model 3 wasn't driven out on stage, at least nobody got out of it. It was also the only one of the three 3's :lol: with no lights. Perhaps it was their original build and isn't drivable?
It was also confirmed in one of the test ride videos that it isn't a hatchback, but has a conventional rear trunk. For a modern car, the trunk looked quite spacious (and is said to increase in volume because some "prototype hardware" is taking up extra space). Also, those headlights are definitely going to change some. In the videos, the light they throw is very uneven.
But, the question that is stumping a lot of people, what is the story with the two different style doorhandles? The matte grey car had Model S style doorhandles (though they didn't pop out), but the other two had J style doorhandles. If my theory is correct in that the cars on stage were oldest to newest from right to left (red car being the original, and the left being the most recent), I would say that the lever action of the J handles were found to be too cumbersome, so a mix of the Model S and X doorhandles are used now (look of the S, but the push-button functionality of the X, but likely without the "invisible Chauffeur"). Or, perhaps it is the total opposite in that the S doorhandles were used before they designed the J handles.
My favorite part was when Elon asked if anybody drove a Model S (the joke being nearly every person there owns a Model S). He almost ruined his April Fools joke early on :lol: .
I must say, though, that of everything that Tesla has done so far, they did the best of keeping the Model 3 a secret until last night. They were practically silent on any details up until the event. A lot of people guessed correctly about dual motor AWD and Autopilot before they unveiled those features for the Model S.
Kind of a mix of a Model S (with a touch of Model X in the tail lights), a Porsche, the Fisker Karma, and elements of the Roadster in the front bumper, hood, and doors (the protruding lower lip of the bumper and the handles on the inside of the front doors). The dash and front bumper kind of reminds me of the EV1.
Also, only one person on the TMC forum mentioned that the red Model 3 wasn't driven out on stage, at least nobody got out of it. It was also the only one of the three 3's :lol: with no lights. Perhaps it was their original build and isn't drivable?
It was also confirmed in one of the test ride videos that it isn't a hatchback, but has a conventional rear trunk. For a modern car, the trunk looked quite spacious (and is said to increase in volume because some "prototype hardware" is taking up extra space). Also, those headlights are definitely going to change some. In the videos, the light they throw is very uneven.
But, the question that is stumping a lot of people, what is the story with the two different style doorhandles? The matte grey car had Model S style doorhandles (though they didn't pop out), but the other two had J style doorhandles. If my theory is correct in that the cars on stage were oldest to newest from right to left (red car being the original, and the left being the most recent), I would say that the lever action of the J handles were found to be too cumbersome, so a mix of the Model S and X doorhandles are used now (look of the S, but the push-button functionality of the X, but likely without the "invisible Chauffeur"). Or, perhaps it is the total opposite in that the S doorhandles were used before they designed the J handles.
My favorite part was when Elon asked if anybody drove a Model S (the joke being nearly every person there owns a Model S). He almost ruined his April Fools joke early on :lol: .
I must say, though, that of everything that Tesla has done so far, they did the best of keeping the Model 3 a secret until last night. They were practically silent on any details up until the event. A lot of people guessed correctly about dual motor AWD and Autopilot before they unveiled those features for the Model S.
Kind of a mix of a Model S (with a touch of Model X in the tail lights), a Porsche, the Fisker Karma, and elements of the Roadster in the front bumper, hood, and doors (the protruding lower lip of the bumper and the handles on the inside of the front doors). The dash and front bumper kind of reminds me of the EV1.
The access to Tesla Super Charging station network is a total tipping point. AWD is nice, but probably will be an option. But what's this about the fed tax credit being limited to 200,000 vehicles per auto maker ? to wait 2 years for delivery, I may have to get a Zero motorcycle in the mean time.
PV1
Well-known member
Yeah, the FTC is limited to the first 200,000 EVs a manufacturer produces. After that, it ramps down, but I don't remember the numbers.
Mart
Well-known member
Per the footnoted Wiki entry:
Yep getting the last federal tax credits may wind up being the reward for folks who camped out, depending on how many S and X and repeat-buyer 3's are delivered before us first-time reservation holders can finalize. For me at somewhere near #100,000 in line, I don't expect a car before 2020; 2019 if lucky, or a tax credit. :roll:
sandange
Well-known member
That's why we lined up
Trying to get up as high as possible on the list.
Very simple
No government subsidy - can't afford to buy the Tesla
They may extend the grants or not
Trying to get up as high as possible on the list.
Very simple
No government subsidy - can't afford to buy the Tesla
They may extend the grants or not
sandange
Well-known member
The earlier you reserve the higher on the list you are
The faster you will get delivery.
I believe it works this way here in Quebec Canada
Our provincial program offers up to
$ 8,000
Canadian Dollars to purchase a new BEV -
credited on the contract usually paid straight to the auto dealer.
The grant
is only eligible at the time when the final contract/delivery is signed with the automobiles serial number etc.
Not upon reservation
Program two
50% of the cost to purchase & install an EVSE in your principal residence
to maximum of
$1,000
Only if there are still some funds left in these programs
The faster you will get delivery.
I believe it works this way here in Quebec Canada
Our provincial program offers up to
$ 8,000
Canadian Dollars to purchase a new BEV -
credited on the contract usually paid straight to the auto dealer.
The grant
is only eligible at the time when the final contract/delivery is signed with the automobiles serial number etc.
Not upon reservation
Program two
50% of the cost to purchase & install an EVSE in your principal residence
to maximum of
$1,000
Only if there are still some funds left in these programs
FrostyCanada
Well-known member
Hello sandange, we just got our money back (program 2) for our EVSE purchase and install.
It took 3 months, but we eventually got pennies back
Brian
It took 3 months, but we eventually got pennies back
Brian
sandange
Well-known member
I'm hoping that program is still around too as
Should we get the Tesla we would have to upgrade
our home charger system too .
Should we get the Tesla we would have to upgrade
our home charger system too .
Benjamin Nead
Well-known member
My take on the Tesla 3 rollout . . .
1) It's historic and important. A 215 mile range-per-charge EV with a base price of $35K is what so many have been asking for and, with something like 200K (and growing) reservations, it's going to be a game changer. The Chevy Bolt is also going to be an important car in this regard. But the GM design feels tied to the past in many ways when compared to the Tesla and, since GM has now come out to say they won't be investing in dedicated high speed charging infrastructure of its own, the built-in "free" Supercharging that Tesla provides to Model 3 purchasers is a big plus. Even if Tesla uses up most of its $7500 federal tax credits before the Model 3 ships (and we don't know yet if this program will be extended or even enhanced after election day, if the new president and congress are of a progressive ilk,) the Supercharger selling point could be big persuading factor for consumers who are on the fence between which of the two cars to choose.
2) I'm so glad that Elon Musk framed the preamble of his presentation around climate change issues. Good for him. While it's unfair to paint with a wide brush, one gets the impression from monitoring online chatter of current Tesla owners and the (at times, annoyingly rabid) Tesla fan base that there is far too much emphasis paid to acceleration statistics, Space Age gadgetry, luxury accoutrements and the like with the currently available Tesla cars. It's as if the the lack of tailpipe pollution is something many of these people not only don't care about, they think it's a deficit to even mention it as a selling point for EVs.
3) The new Model 3 looks fabulous. The only exterior detail for me that is potentially jarring is the lack of a front grill and what could be perceived as a rather large area up front that looks, in publicity photos, like the grill was airbrushed out. The interior is also a departure from the norm: a larger centrally-mounted screen and nothing more than a straight countertop running from door to door. It almost feels like you're sitting at a Sushi bar with an i-Pad off to the side. I'm hoping that they'll at least put a small LCD speedometer with a few warning lights directly in front of the driver (much like we have in out i-MiEVs) to supplement the central screen.
4) Even this "budget" Tesla has lots of glass. The rear deck of the car is particularly attractive and we've been told that the expansive window back there is of a special glass formulation that blocks UV rays. But the stunning design forgoes the usefulness of a conventional hatchback. The Jalopnik site, in particular, really took Tesla to task for the omission and for providing such a tiny trunk opening . . .
http://jalopnik.com/this-is-the-tesla-model-3s-biggest-design-fail-1768467573
Granted, there is a "frunk" (ie: front trunk) on the Model 3 for much of daily cargo requirements. But I'm reminded of the other day, when I transported my wife's new bicycle in the back of the i-MiEV and nothing could have been easier for me than opening that big hatch, placing the bike in on its side with the front wheel canted upward and closing it up.
With the rear seats folded down, there looks to be so much room back there on the Model 3 and the same quick-and-dirty bicycle transporting task could be accomplished . . . except that you really can't ,with the big glass and tiny hatch seen so far. We're told that there will be several iterations of the Model 3. Let's hope we see one that has a solid roof over the rear passenger seats and - with those rear seats folded down - a conventional hatch lid to take full advantage of that nice rear cargo area.
1) It's historic and important. A 215 mile range-per-charge EV with a base price of $35K is what so many have been asking for and, with something like 200K (and growing) reservations, it's going to be a game changer. The Chevy Bolt is also going to be an important car in this regard. But the GM design feels tied to the past in many ways when compared to the Tesla and, since GM has now come out to say they won't be investing in dedicated high speed charging infrastructure of its own, the built-in "free" Supercharging that Tesla provides to Model 3 purchasers is a big plus. Even if Tesla uses up most of its $7500 federal tax credits before the Model 3 ships (and we don't know yet if this program will be extended or even enhanced after election day, if the new president and congress are of a progressive ilk,) the Supercharger selling point could be big persuading factor for consumers who are on the fence between which of the two cars to choose.
2) I'm so glad that Elon Musk framed the preamble of his presentation around climate change issues. Good for him. While it's unfair to paint with a wide brush, one gets the impression from monitoring online chatter of current Tesla owners and the (at times, annoyingly rabid) Tesla fan base that there is far too much emphasis paid to acceleration statistics, Space Age gadgetry, luxury accoutrements and the like with the currently available Tesla cars. It's as if the the lack of tailpipe pollution is something many of these people not only don't care about, they think it's a deficit to even mention it as a selling point for EVs.
3) The new Model 3 looks fabulous. The only exterior detail for me that is potentially jarring is the lack of a front grill and what could be perceived as a rather large area up front that looks, in publicity photos, like the grill was airbrushed out. The interior is also a departure from the norm: a larger centrally-mounted screen and nothing more than a straight countertop running from door to door. It almost feels like you're sitting at a Sushi bar with an i-Pad off to the side. I'm hoping that they'll at least put a small LCD speedometer with a few warning lights directly in front of the driver (much like we have in out i-MiEVs) to supplement the central screen.
4) Even this "budget" Tesla has lots of glass. The rear deck of the car is particularly attractive and we've been told that the expansive window back there is of a special glass formulation that blocks UV rays. But the stunning design forgoes the usefulness of a conventional hatchback. The Jalopnik site, in particular, really took Tesla to task for the omission and for providing such a tiny trunk opening . . .
http://jalopnik.com/this-is-the-tesla-model-3s-biggest-design-fail-1768467573
Granted, there is a "frunk" (ie: front trunk) on the Model 3 for much of daily cargo requirements. But I'm reminded of the other day, when I transported my wife's new bicycle in the back of the i-MiEV and nothing could have been easier for me than opening that big hatch, placing the bike in on its side with the front wheel canted upward and closing it up.
With the rear seats folded down, there looks to be so much room back there on the Model 3 and the same quick-and-dirty bicycle transporting task could be accomplished . . . except that you really can't ,with the big glass and tiny hatch seen so far. We're told that there will be several iterations of the Model 3. Let's hope we see one that has a solid roof over the rear passenger seats and - with those rear seats folded down - a conventional hatch lid to take full advantage of that nice rear cargo area.
Since Elon's primary objective is to proliferate EV adoption, may be GM can strike a deal to access the Supercharging station ?? May be have Telsa users having the priority to charge. After all, these stations are meant for long distance travel. Or even charge non-Telsa user a nominal fee.
It should be straight forward to fabricate a plug adaptor, though I am ignorant of the details of Telsa charging DC power characteristic. The 60kwh pack in the Bolt should be able to handle pretty hefty current.
The success of the Telsa 3 really hinges on the success of the Gigafactory. Currently the order of my liking for the Telsa 3 are:
1. Supercharging station
2. AWDrive
3. All American made, plus Gigafactory
4. the look
But without the $7500 incentive, the Bolt is still on the table. I am eagerly waiting to hear GM's response.
It should be straight forward to fabricate a plug adaptor, though I am ignorant of the details of Telsa charging DC power characteristic. The 60kwh pack in the Bolt should be able to handle pretty hefty current.
The success of the Telsa 3 really hinges on the success of the Gigafactory. Currently the order of my liking for the Telsa 3 are:
1. Supercharging station
2. AWDrive
3. All American made, plus Gigafactory
4. the look
But without the $7500 incentive, the Bolt is still on the table. I am eagerly waiting to hear GM's response.
wmcbrine
Well-known member
Elon has always said that the Supercharger network is open to other manufacturers, in principle. In practice, so far, no one else has signed on.pbui19 said:
There are a lot more non-Tesla DC fast chargers out there already, even just CCS (which is what the Bolt will use), according to PlugShare. The main advantage of the Tesla network is that it covers even some sparsely populated areas, while the CCS and CHAdeMO stations tend to bunch up where the people are.
PV1
Well-known member
The Tesla would be of more use to me based on charging infrastructure alone. Within the Bolt's range, there are only 2 CCS stations around, while the rest are CHAdeMO, with 3 Supercharger locations in range.
It would be nice if everybody could agree on a plug. I think this gives Tesla the advantage because not only is their plug superior on a technical level, their cars adapt to both J1772 and CHAdeMO, and adding CCS would only need a software update and the adapter.
But, for now, my pair of jellybeans continue to serve my needs (even if I don't drive Koorz that often).
It would be nice if everybody could agree on a plug. I think this gives Tesla the advantage because not only is their plug superior on a technical level, their cars adapt to both J1772 and CHAdeMO, and adding CCS would only need a software update and the adapter.
But, for now, my pair of jellybeans continue to serve my needs (even if I don't drive Koorz that often).
PV1
Well-known member
This didn't take long:
Http://tesla3grilles.com
Http://tesla3grilles.com
wmcbrine
Well-known member
Of Pittsburgh? That's not what I'm seeing.PV1 said:
PV1
Well-known member
Sorry. Guess a few more slipped in under the radar. Still, Akron and Hagerstown are not places I visit often. CCS is still pretty sparse compared to CHAdeMO.
Anyway, lots of discussion about that front bumper on TMC. Some members made tweaks to it, one catching Elon's attention.
Anyway, lots of discussion about that front bumper on TMC. Some members made tweaks to it, one catching Elon's attention.
Benjamin Nead
Well-known member
For GM's sake (and the sake of all the other OEMs, actually,) this is what I'm hoping to see. It's as if Tesla is the Bell Telephone of it's day and has already built the long distance wired network and all the others are the manufacturers of these nice telephones (ie: electric cars) and are still sort of straddled with a disconnected patchwork in where you can place a call (ie: plug in to charge.) What we're witnessing now is “not invented here” corporate pride. The established American and European OEMs are in the AES-CCS corner and the Asian manufacturers are cloistered around CHAdeMO. Neither camp is wanting to admit “defeat” to Tesla's plug just yet. Maybe things will change in a couple of years.
As far as the Model 3 vs Bolt comparison goes, it's still apples vs. oranges. The Tesla has the *** appeal styling and Supercharging network capability for easy long distance travel. It also has unobstructed storage up front . . . important, since the current lack of a proper hatch in the back of the Model 3 prototype means you won't be putting much more back there than a few suitcases and keeping the rear seats up most of the time . . . or that surfboard that Elon was referring to. The Bolt, on the other hand, is a more work-a-day design. Yes, it has a real hatchback. Throw in the kid's bicycle, the bags of sod from the big box store, etc, all at once in the back without even thinking about it. Score one point for the Bolt there.
But there's no “frunk” up front on the Bolt. The cutaway illustrations I've seen show a lot of the stuff that's built into the Model 3 and hidden from view to be crammed in under the Bolt's hood next to the drivetrain components. It almost looks like a late model internal combustion engine taking up all that space under the hood . . . electronic boxes, wiring harnesses, hoses, etc. Score one for Telsa in regards to better integration of service stuff that probably doesn't need to be touched for tens or even hundreds of thousands of miles. It's built in, not added on.
One answer is to simply install multi-format Quick Charge (QC) machines instead of perpetuating a format war by installing a CHAdeMO machine here and a CCS there. Both CHAdeMO and CCS work off of 440V DC. What exits from the big box comes down to circuit cards, electronic protocol and plug designs. Since you're not dealing with massive storage tanks buried underground to hold thousands of gallons of liquid fuels, it's actually simpler (assuming reliable electricity is available) to physically install a QC machine with a couple of different plugs on it than it is to have a legacy petroleum dispensary with unleaded, high test and diesel. I did a radio feature several years ago about this, featuring the story of an Arizona entrepreneur who is is building out a network of multi-format Quick Charge machines . . .
https://www.azpm.org/s/8913-electric-cars/
The GoE3 company featured in that 2012 piece is behind schedule in deployment and reliability of the various stations has been an ongoing issue. But the I-10 corridor between Tucson and Phoenix is now connected this way. Competition in our geographic area is also now coming from California-based EVgo and Tesla's Superchargers are now staring to show up around here as well. Interestingly, all three now have terminals within about a half a mile of each other along the highway in Casa Grande, which is at about the halfway point between Tucson and Phoenix.
Regarding adapters: even with a 60kWh capacity pack, I don't think the Bolt's pack is able to accept the current that the Supercharger is set to dispense. I'll have to dig up the exact numbers, but this is my basic understanding of the situation. There are adapters going the other way, though. A Tesla car can charge from CHAdeMO with the proper adapter but, thus far, I don't know of a way that CCS can port electricity into Tesla.
