Riversimple and Fuel Cell Discussions
- Thread starter Phximiev
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phb10186
Well-known member
Phximiev said:On the road in London? http://www.riversimple.com/the-technology-behind-the-hydrogen-car/
Any Londoner's seen it running around?
Perhaps take a test drive?
Afraid not, I've been otherwise consumed by the media reporting of an impending apocalypse.
Well, one could only hope that they eventually have a large number of buses and other commercial vehicles to factor this investment over as the number of cars they are reporting to add is way to low.
http://insideevs.com/europe-launches-e100-million-hydrogen-refueling-infrastructure-and-cars-deployment-project/
How about 1,000 buses and 10,000 commercial vehicles? If they get rid of that many diesels they might have something.
http://insideevs.com/europe-launches-e100-million-hydrogen-refueling-infrastructure-and-cars-deployment-project/
How about 1,000 buses and 10,000 commercial vehicles? If they get rid of that many diesels they might have something.
Riversimple safety and other ( http://www.riversimple.com/faqs-the-riversimple-movement/ ), something questioned in a previous post:
From their Facebook link:
"The Rasa is extremely safe. The car is designed according to EC Whole Vehicle Type Approval requirements. We have lots of design features that are entirely focussed on safety, e.g. thick, strong doors, no engine block in the front of the car and a carbon fibre safety cell around the passengers."
I found this on the 'EC Whole Vehicle Type Approval' ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_type_approval ), but it's not clear just exactly how the car fares in a crash or what the crash test criterion are under this standard.
The question as posed in a previous post still appears to be unanswered.
From their Facebook link:
"The Rasa is extremely safe. The car is designed according to EC Whole Vehicle Type Approval requirements. We have lots of design features that are entirely focussed on safety, e.g. thick, strong doors, no engine block in the front of the car and a carbon fibre safety cell around the passengers."
I found this on the 'EC Whole Vehicle Type Approval' ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_type_approval ), but it's not clear just exactly how the car fares in a crash or what the crash test criterion are under this standard.
The question as posed in a previous post still appears to be unanswered.
misterbleepy
Well-known member
Phximiev said:
It looks like it costs (quite a lot of) money to see the EU/UN Type Approval standards - you would need to subscribe to something called VISTA - more info here:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/legislation/vista-and-legstat.asp
and pricing on page 2 of this:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/additional/files/legislation/vista--legstat/vca073a.pdf
There is also a voluntary safety rating system that most EU car manufacturers use called NCAP - more info here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_NCAP
That's pricey for a subscription. In any event, the Rasa is not listed on the NCAP safety site, but I did find the 'Miev: http://www.euroncap.com/en/results/mitsubishi/i-miev/10986
That site, it says, has all of the test results for all of the cars that it has tested.
That site, it says, has all of the test results for all of the cars that it has tested.
Below is the response I received from NCAP as to whether the Rasa had been crash tested. Since I couldn't find the Rasa or Riversimple, one can conclude the NCAP has not crash tested the car yet.
________
Thanks for your interest in Euro NCAP. Due to time and programme constraints, we cannot guarantee to respond to each individual enquiry, particularly if the question is answered on our website.
- For requests regarding car safety ratings, please note that our website carries all the cars that Euro NCAP has ever tested. If you do not find the results of a specific vehicle, it means it has not been tested. The safety ratings of all the vehicles tested by Euro NCAP are available here;
- For requests on the various tests carried out by Euro NCAP to determine the safety of vehicles, please visit this section;
- For requests about Euro NCAP, its members, the car selection process and how to understand the stars, please click here;
- For media requests, please contact us directly to [email protected]
Best regards,
Euro NCAP staff
________
Thanks for your interest in Euro NCAP. Due to time and programme constraints, we cannot guarantee to respond to each individual enquiry, particularly if the question is answered on our website.
- For requests regarding car safety ratings, please note that our website carries all the cars that Euro NCAP has ever tested. If you do not find the results of a specific vehicle, it means it has not been tested. The safety ratings of all the vehicles tested by Euro NCAP are available here;
- For requests on the various tests carried out by Euro NCAP to determine the safety of vehicles, please visit this section;
- For requests about Euro NCAP, its members, the car selection process and how to understand the stars, please click here;
- For media requests, please contact us directly to [email protected]
Best regards,
Euro NCAP staff
Below are the responses I received from both VCA and Euro NCAP showing that the Rasa has not been crash tested yet. One question raised from these inquiries is the effect of Brexit on thes regulations.
VCA and Euro NCAP between the lines:
_______
VCA have not carried out nor witnessed a crash test on a Riversimple Rasa.
However, VCA would not have seen any tests carried out as part of the vehicle's development work. VCA would only become involved if the crash test were being used as part of the vehicle's European whole vehicle type approval process.
Regards
Kevin
Kevin Bridges
Technical Support Group Manager
VCA Midlands Centre
Watling Street
Nuneaton
Warwickshire
CV10 0UA
It should be noted that the above represents our opinion as interpretation of the law is the sole prerogative of the courts.
___________________
Thank you for your interest in Euro NCAP.
The Riversimple Rasa has not been tested yet. However, we test new cars regularly, so we would advise you to keep checking our website for updates.
If you want to receive updates in your mailbox, feel free to subscribe to our newsletter.
Kind regards,
Sigrid
Euro NCAP Online Communications Assistant
Place du Luxembourg 2
BE-1050 Brussels
VCA and Euro NCAP between the lines:
_______
VCA have not carried out nor witnessed a crash test on a Riversimple Rasa.
However, VCA would not have seen any tests carried out as part of the vehicle's development work. VCA would only become involved if the crash test were being used as part of the vehicle's European whole vehicle type approval process.
Regards
Kevin
Kevin Bridges
Technical Support Group Manager
VCA Midlands Centre
Watling Street
Nuneaton
Warwickshire
CV10 0UA
It should be noted that the above represents our opinion as interpretation of the law is the sole prerogative of the courts.
___________________
Thank you for your interest in Euro NCAP.
The Riversimple Rasa has not been tested yet. However, we test new cars regularly, so we would advise you to keep checking our website for updates.
If you want to receive updates in your mailbox, feel free to subscribe to our newsletter.
Kind regards,
Sigrid
Euro NCAP Online Communications Assistant
Place du Luxembourg 2
BE-1050 Brussels
phb10186
Well-known member
Phximiev said:
2 things, and I'm sure a fellow Brit will correct me if I am wrong:
1. You only need the the full EU testing certification if you have a product over a certain number of units, so if you are in pre-production phase you only need something called 'Type approval' which is probably some very old British military standard or terminology. See the different types of things: http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/vehicletype/type-approval-for-ca.asp
Basically if you make a kit car, like a Caterham or AC Cobra replica, clearly there has to be a mechanism to allow these cars to be registered for road use, even though they may have been screwed together by a halfwit, and kill you in any sort of crash.
2. You don't need EU type approval if you are not in the EU! But you would clearly have to meet it if you wanted to export there.
That answered a few questions, but leaves the main one un-answered: Does Riversimple have to crash test the Rasa? And if so, when does this happen in their auto development life cycle?
I still believe that the Rasa is a nifty idea/concept, but who wants to risk getting in a car that hasn't been crash tested?
I still believe that the Rasa is a nifty idea/concept, but who wants to risk getting in a car that hasn't been crash tested?
phb10186
Well-known member
Phximiev said:
Nope. They only need type approval for now.
If they want an EU market, they would have to go through the Euro NCAP tests (which the imiev did pretty well in actually), and that includes sales in the UK. It's up to them to sort that when they want the public to use them.
Does that mean that before they start their 'beta' with 20 cars (or whatever number they eventually use), that they must complete a crash test?
I am assuming that their leasing model also constitutes a 'sale' to the public in the UK?
I am assuming that their leasing model also constitutes a 'sale' to the public in the UK?
phb10186
Well-known member
Phximiev said:
I'm not an expert here, but it is likely that one of the factors involved in deciding what insurance group the car falls in is based on the crash test results: probability of injury/ pedestrian safety and so on.
So any made of sale, lease or rent would require the individual to have insurance.
Insurance regulations are atypical in the UK, as the insurance is on the driver for the car, rather than just on the car, or just on the driver.
So, if I want to drive a car, I need insurance for me on that car... it's not a case of the car being insured and anyone can drive it.
If I want to drive someone else's car, or they drive mine, they can only do that if they themselves are insured on their own policy, and I give them permission to drive it on mine... because if they crash it would be their insurance that covered it...if it's stimulated in their policy.
It's a stupid system... but it allows them to charge based on the risk of the driver and the car.
phb10186
Well-known member
Phximiev said:
I think it does in the US (not sure about all states) - but from my time spent there, it has always been that the car is insured, and others can drive it.
In my own opinion, a hydrogen fueling station for each school bus terminal supporting a fleet of hydrogen fuel cell school buses, similar to the Aberdeen project posted above, is probably feasible:
http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/index.php/hydrogenbuses/where-are-all-of-the-hydrogen-fuel-cell-school-buses/
With the fueling station cost spread out over many school buses and over a number of years, and as in Aberdeen, open to the public, feasibility is further supported.
I also believe there would be a huge market for this notion.
http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/index.php/hydrogenbuses/where-are-all-of-the-hydrogen-fuel-cell-school-buses/
With the fueling station cost spread out over many school buses and over a number of years, and as in Aberdeen, open to the public, feasibility is further supported.
I also believe there would be a huge market for this notion.
Phximiev said:
Provocative perhaps because its misleading? I don't buy this oversimplified chart at all.
Consider the leading long-range EV, a Tesla Model S. Both the S85D and S90D score an even 100 mpge for mixed driving, only 12% worse than the much less capable i-MiEV.
The Model S competition? Well, a Porsche Panamera gets 18 combined mpg and a BMW 750i rates 20 mpg. Where's that decreasing rate of return on long range EVs?
