Riversimple and Fuel Cell Discussions

[JoeS]

Note, I changed the title to be more descriptive of how this thread has evolved.

Fuel cells and submarines, just as fuel cells and space, are certainly viable alternatives for these unique applications which are relatively cost-unencumbered. On the other hand, fuel cells and aircraft (note the HY4 has virtually no cargo room) and, especially, fuel cells and cargo ships, are constrained by operating costs, chief among them being end-to-end energy costs (= 'efficiency' of energy conversion). I still haven't seen a good case for the latter.

Delighted to see the Nemo tourboat but can't help but wonder if a simple Lithium pack and electric propulsion would not be much less expensive to both install and operate? All they need to provide is a DCQC at some of the docks the tourboat pulls into to have it be a sustainable continuous operation. With their large length-to-beam ratios, tourboats don't require much energy in their everyday smooth-water usage.

 

[Phximiev]

London Hydrogen Bus: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-38157860

A continuation of the earlier changes:

https://youtu.be/Mm7o61OQg2w

Vs

The London BYD Double Decker Electric Bus:

https://youtu.be/VQM0O9Umu48

 

[Phximiev]

Hydrogen Kangoo per InsideEVs: http://insideevs.com/kangoo-ze-h2-ev-fuel-cell-sets-new-range-record/

And Symbio FCell's web page:. http://www.symbiofcell.com/en/

 

[Phximiev]

$3 billion in orders? Supercharger-like hydrogen re-fueling network?

https://nikolamotor.com/one

https://news.slashdot.org/story/16/12/03/0016213/nikola-motor-company-reveals-hydrogen-fuel-cell-truck-with-range-of-1200-miles

http://www.valuewalk.com/2016/12/1874240/

https://youtu.be/censnrCF1LA

 

[Phximiev]

In response to my email, Nikola Motors "Support" wrote: "We have hundreds of positions we will be filling after Christmas as we ramp up. They will be in SLC, UT and posted on our careers page in January. https://nikolamotor.com/careers/jobs ".

It should be exciting to watch.

 

[Phximiev]

https://youtu.be/4-J7H_XmmWg

An electric motor in each wheel. . .

 

[Phximiev]

Hydrogen Racecar from Delft: http://www.forze-delft.nl/

https://youtu.be/7ZjbfZvXm2c

https://youtu.be/DO0YPJ7RuzU

https://youtu.be/YG0H_YL4I10

 

[Phximiev]

Riversimple contact subscription for those interested in taking test drives, etc.: http://www.riversimple.com/keep-updated-on-our-progress-and-help-us-shape-the-future/

 

[Phximiev]

Hydrogen Now reports on the Nikola hydrogen truck and reminds us of the the Vision Industries bankruptcy:

http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/index.php/hydrogen-trucks/nikola-one-two-long-haul-hydrogen-fuel-cell-trucks/

As reported, hopefully Nikola can avoid a Vision like demise.

 

[JoeS]

BEV vs. Fuel Cell - which is greener? My town was used as a case study for the Stanford University Global Climate and Energy Project (GCEP)
http://www.futurity.org/electric-cars-batteries-fuel-cells-1298342-2/
You'll have to read it for the conclusions.

 

[PV1]

I almost had an issue with this sentence,

During daylight hours, electrolyzers can produce hydrogen from surplus solar power that would otherwise go to waste. That hydrogen can be stored and converted into renewable electricity, or used as a clean alternative to natural gas to heat and light buildings.

but I saw later on that this didn't pan out.

Joe, did you get involved with the study?

 

[Phximiev]

I almost had an issue with this sentence,

During daylight hours, electrolyzers can produce hydrogen from surplus solar power that would otherwise go to waste. That hydrogen can be stored and converted into renewable electricity, or used as a clean alternative to natural gas to heat and light buildings.

but I saw later on that this didn't pan out.

Did you get involved with the study?

Not me. I just posted it. But it is a curious statement. On the other hand, I believe the whole hydrogen network thing for Nikola (and others) is up in the air. Unlike Aberdeen where it appears established on totally clean sources and Riversimple, where they plan on using existing hydrogen stations as well as building one.

But without a working hydrogen network, Nikola won't be viable in a hydrogen extender form. They would have to go back to their prior natural gas extender plan.

 

[PV1]

That question was directed towards Joe .

I don't understand why Nikola scrapped their gas turbine in favor of a fuel cell. Natural gas re-fueling has a much larger infrastructure (in comparison to hydrogen, but pales in comparison to EV charging), and installation of that infrastructure is likely much cheaper. A CNG station consists of a natural gas-powered compressor, a couple of tanks, and a pump, everything that's already readily available. Besides, I feel that a large percentage of US hydrogen will be sourced from natural gas, one way or another, at least for the next couple of decades.

Either way, I still think they need a quick charge port on their truck as well. Being plugged in beats burning fuel all night for a sleeper truck. You leave with a full tank and a full charge.

 

[JoeS]

...Joe, did you get involved with the study?

No, didn't even know about it.

I was intrigued by this comment: “Los Altos Hills is distinguished by an unusually high solar-generation capacity in the county with the highest share of electric vehicles in the state,”

But I'm too cheap to purchase the study itself to get the data that defines "highest share", whatever that means. Based on this, I could probably make the claim that we're highest in the country.

BTW, our town does not charge for solar permits nor solar installation inspections.

This BEV vs. FCEV study's emphasis seems to be on cost, rather than overall efficiency or well-to-wheels energy consumption per distance driven (or, the inverse of this number).

 

[Phximiev]

London Hydrogen Bus: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-38157860

A continuation of the earlier changes:

https://youtu.be/Mm7o61OQg2w

Vs

The London BYD Double Decker Electric Bus:

https://youtu.be/VQM0O9Umu48

More on the post; London to stop all diesel buses: http://insideevs.com/london-to-stop-buying-dirtiest-diesel-buses-and-switch-to-zero-emission/

 

[Phximiev]

More electric buses: http://www.electric-vehiclenews.com/2016/12/sydney-airport-launch-new-electric-bus.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FpEcq+%28Electric+Vehicle+News%29

 

[Phximiev]

Hydrogen Racecar from Delft: http://www.forze-delft.nl/

More on the Forze:

https://youtu.be/jqylWAm-ku0

Perhaps gearing up for the racing season.

 

[Phximiev]

More on hydrogen talk: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-17/toyota-shell-among-auto-and-oil-giants-forming-hydrogen-council

http://www.alstom.com/press-centre/2017/832228/new-hydrogen-council-launches-in-davos/

Hydrogen FC powered trains make some sense and Alstom appears to be actually doing something in this area: http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/index.php/hydrogen-economy/hydrail-at-davos-the-hydrogen-council-on-track/

 

[Phximiev]

Electric airplane needs more range?

http://insideevs.com/electric-airplane-sets-new-ascent-record/

 

[Phximiev]

Riversimple contact subscription for those interested in taking test drives, etc.: http://www.riversimple.com/keep-updated-on-our-progress-and-help-us-shape-the-future/

Riversimple needs more money:

https://youtu.be/A-M7y1TbVMY

They'd better hurry up because this topic is so old its starting to grow hair!