New owner/member

[mivanci5]

HI all..

I have a history and reputation as an owner of weird cars and vehicles… and Miev I bought yesterday fits perfectly.

I started foo months ago new contract and to commute to work for 35km in one direction. And I was thinking, why I do not fulfil my wish for an EV, and buy myself one on excuse that I’m saving big time. (Totally sold this one to my wife)

Company wants to give me car 24/7 but with GPS… no way, give me the money for commute expanse, and I will buy myself a car, electric one… They pay me full commute expanses, so for 5y and all electricity that I will spend, I-Miev will be fully paid off. And I do believe after 8-9 y this will still be very usable car.

So I bought nice white one, used, 9.000 euros. 2014 with 60 000km. Form local Mitsubishi dealer. It has small scratches, but who cares… Anyway, I hate when I buy a new car that has no scratches and dents, and then after some time I see the first one… I hate that feeling when I want to kill someone…

Now, little about me:

My name is Mario Ivancic, I’m from Croatia. Living in a country 35km from capitol Zagreb. Now I’m working as IT administrator in a medium IT company specialized for printing solutions.
I’m schooled car technician, and I worked in car industry for 20 years. I worked for Peugeot, Citroen, and Renault. But after big automotive meltdown in 2010-2011 her in EU. I changed my career, and started to work on my second love, computers. I like cars very much, but computer geeks are paid better… :ugeek:

And yes I met Mate Rimac (factory is 50km from my home on other side of Zagreb), we know each other from 402 drag races in his beginning with electric BMW. In that time I was driving rare Peugeot. 405T16 and Mate was pioneering and destroying transmissions with electricity
Do not ask me if I can get hands on Rimac parts and batteries, I did not see the guy for 10y now. And he is now very, very hard to get guy... So answer is no, I cannot. :?

This is great forum, and I hope I will contribute to it.

Sorry on my bad English, unfortunately I learned German and Russian in School. :roll:

 

[JoeS]

Hello Mario, and welcome to the forum! With only a 35km commute, your i-MiEV is perfect although you might need to be a little careful in the middle of winter and not drive it like your 405T16 - that car is famous for our USA Pikes Peak Hill Climb.

I attended a presentation by Mate Rimac at Stanford University - his cars are truly fantastic and I applaud his achievements!

As the i-MiEV ages, your computer hacking skills may well be needed. As you might glean from some recent forum posts, one of the stumbling blocks we have is that Mitsubishi has embedded digital interlocks which prevent simple subassembly swapping - many of the major components are encoded with the car's VIN (Vehicle Idenbtification Number) and which can only be reprogrammed by a Mitsubishi (or Citroen or Peugeot) dealer utilizing a MUT3 tool with i-MiEV software - so, if something goes wrong and even though we may know which subassembly is at fault, simply replacing it may not work. Luckily, failures are quite rare and I think you'll find the i-MiEV to be extremely reliable.

I hope that you now have the EV 'grin' and are enjoying your i-MiEV which I think you will find to be an excellent workhorse - but, be careful, your wife might decide that she really really likes driving the i-MiEV and you might be left looking for another electric car! :roll:

 

[mivanci5]

Thank you on your welcome JoeS.

I’m familiar with VIN number coding the car computers. PSA (Peugeot-Citroen) and Renault has this system on all computer systems in car from I think 1999. But for this old models it is hacked long time ago.
I do not know I-Miev system to well, just basic layout. But I think it is similar system of coding.

What this coding basically do, is preventing computers to be interchangeable from car to car. So you need to buy new one, in a dealership, and pay for installation and coding…
Manufacture will say that is for your own safety, and it is a bit true, because your car is not so much desirable for stealing for parts.

Anyway, I will look in to it, and even now maybe it can be the way to flash eproms with “virgin” software. Problem is that main components like charger computer or electric motor control unit, are “new” and still rare in percentage of cars that Peugeot, Citroen or Mitsubishi produce. So it is less people interested to crack it. Another factor is that like you said, do not break down. So there is general lack of interest and no need to invest time in doing so.

One thing that I noticed in past one day of ownership is lack of brake light while on regen braking… NOT COOL Mitsubishi, really not cool. City driving with “B” is not an option in heavy city traffic. May be I’m exaggerating, but I do not like it.

So after brain storm of 5 minutes, and 15 min searching on forum what can be done. I did not find anything (maybe I missed something)… and idea is born… connect G force sensor on Arduino board, and connect it to brake light switch in parallel… put a little program to Arduino with: IF (g-force)= (something) THEN switch on brake lights.

Sure I need to look up in schematics of the car, and see what is most simple solution to connect to it, and to test Arduino and sensor, to see if this is simple enough.

I-Miev for sure has g sensor in airbag system, that can be used, but to hack in that data it will take more time... and when you get data, it needs digital translation to be used for activation of a switch… but it is also an option if airbag g sensor is what I think it must be.

But may be someone allrady solved the problem, or im making to much fuss over nothing?

I like this kind of stuff, but IL need a little time to get familiar with my new car.

 

[Don]

Welcome Mario!

One thing that I noticed in past one day of ownership is lack of brake light while on regen braking… NOT COOL Mitsubishi, really not cool. City driving with “B” is not an option in heavy city traffic. May be I’m exaggerating, but I do not like it.

So after brain storm of 5 minutes, and 15 min searching on forum what can be done. I did not find anything (maybe I missed something)… and idea is born… connect G force sensor on Arduino board, and connect it to brake light switch in parallel… put a little program to Arduino with: IF (g-force)= (something) THEN switch on brake lights.

Actually, I think the car already has something similar in it - It's just that regen alone doesn't slow you with enough force to apply the brake lights. Here in the USA, we have regulations as to when EV brake lights need to be used when slowing - Some cars which have more aggressive regen than the iMiEV does DO use the brake lights even when the friction brakes are not applied, but the iMiEV regen doesn't reach that threshold

Rather than a mod to activate the brake lights using G force, why not a mod to add a switch to the gear selector which directly activates the brake lights - Press that switch with your hand when you want brake lights and that should give you even more regen, as the car does add extra regen when you lightly press the pedal far enough to activate the brake lights. Such a mod would give you the best of both worlds - Brake lights and extra regen

Myself, I drive the iMiEV in 'B' mode 100% of the time and try to not touch the brake pedal until I need it to come to a complete stop . . . . and I like that our regen doesn't activate the brake lights. Until this car, all my previous vehicles have been equipped with 4 or 5 speed manual transmissions and I most often slow by downshifting, so there's no brake lights used then either - When I sold one car after 160,000 miles (260,000 Kms) it still had the factory brake pads on it, so you can tell I didn't use the brakes like most people do. I do keep an eye on my mirrors and if someone is following too closely, when I begin to slow, I give them a brief flash of my brake lights. I've never been rear ended in more than 50 years of driving and probably 2,000,000 miles

I agree with Joe - Be careful, or your wife may take your iMiEV away from you - I had to buy a second one because it's her very favorite car of all time

Don

 

[mivanci5]

Good point Don.

Maybe I can use free left foot, for that switch. Instead of “clutch”.

 

[kiev]

Welcome Mario,

i like Don's switch idea, and i like Mario's arduino switch idea too. Maybe i'll build both to play with.

i'm not sure if the brake pedal switch generates a voltage signal proportional to how far it is pressed or if it is just an ON-OFF switch.

For the arduino, there are separate accelerometer boards that can plug in to the arduino board, so no need to use the air bag sensors--just provide one on the arduino. Then it's just a matter to figure out if the brake lights are directly actuated or go thru the EV-ECU driven by a CAN buss command. Or tie it in with the brake pedal switch circuit to fake it out as with Don's idea.

 

[mivanci5]

Welcome Mario,
i'm not sure if the brake pedal switch generates a voltage signal proportional to how far it is pressed or if it is just an ON-OFF switch.

From part number in Peugeot catalog and how it looks to me, it is plain ON/OFF switch.

Just needs to be parallel connected to Arduino board with G sensor board, or like Dan said to manual switch.

If this on/off signal kicks additional regen, that is great news.

With Arduino board this additional regen would be automatic. Just amplification of normal regen kicked by G sensor via relay. And as bonus, brake light on.

Caution, this will brake only back wheels. On slippery road that can be dangerous, if regen is to strong. But ASR will for sure turn on and try to correct, but for second or two on wet or snow, it will be no fun.

Anyway, it needs to be made and tested, and G sensor calibrated to right trigger force…

On Sparkfun online shop 20$ for boards, I think I will make it also just for fun.

 

[JoeS]

As Don mentioned, the i-MiEV does not activate its brake light on regen because it does not meet the minimum deceleration threshold (I need to look for the reference spec, but IIRC it is around 0.3g). For this I am thankful because I am miffed by how easily my Tesla turns on its brake light when I ease up on the go-pedal (especially when I see a police car). On the Tesla an over-the-air update added a cute feature to the car's image on the dashboard which shows when the lights and brake lights turn on. It shows that it doesn't take much to activate that brake light on the Tesla and I have to re-learn to drive gently when I get into that car.

Following Teslas, i3s, Bolts, etc., which have brakelight actuation on regen is getting pretty annoying during normal highway driving (many people don't modulate the pedal well) and I wonder if that may spur a change in the regulations.

As far as onboard accelerometers, yes, the i-MiEV's ASC (Active Stability Control) has them, although I don't think anyone has hacked into them yet.

As far as using the brake pedal switch to activate regen: I like the idea of a separate Arduino control circuit. If I recall, there are two switches as well as transducer actuated by the brake pedal - the transducer for sensing brake rate application results in terrific response during an emergency stop. Note Kiev's comment that it all may feed into the EV-ECU. Anyway, I don't recall anyone trying to tap into the brake switch(es) to see if they activate regen, but I would love to hear from you, Mario, or anyone who has experimented with this, as my dream regen control is a paddle mounted by the steering wheel.

 

[Aerowhatt]

Thank you on your welcome JoeS.

One thing that I noticed in past one day of ownership is lack of brake light while on regen braking… NOT COOL Mitsubishi, really not cool. City driving with “B” is not an option in heavy city traffic. May be I’m exaggerating, but I do not like it.

So after brain storm of 5 minutes, and 15 min searching on forum what can be done. I did not find anything (maybe I missed something)… and idea is born… connect G force sensor on Arduino board, and connect it to brake light switch in parallel… put a little program to Arduino with: IF (g-force)= (something) THEN switch on brake lights.

Sure I need to look up in schematics of the car, and see what is most simple solution to connect to it, and to test Arduino and sensor, to see if this is simple enough.

I-Miev for sure has g sensor in airbag system, that can be used, but to hack in that data it will take more time... and when you get data, it needs digital translation to be used for activation of a switch… but it is also an option if airbag g sensor is what I think it must be.

But may be someone allrady solved the problem, or im making to much fuss over nothing?

I like this kind of stuff, but IL need a little time to get familiar with my new car.

Yes I agree! something that I did not like about the car either. I didn't get much interest from the forum on a mod. So I changed my driving habits instead. I decided the best way to do the brake light mod for regen was to use a current sensing coil (at the inverter), then drive a relay to power the brake lights. At a certain threshold of regen the brake lights would light up.

For driving habits in order to avoid the issue. If you go to a calm area of road and get up to a reasonable around town speed. Shift to N and then gently ease the brake pedal down. There is a big area of travel where no braking happens (friction braking). Once you get a feel for the pedal and where friction braking begins. You can maximize regen by using that (friction braking) dead zone in the pedal while the car is in D. Same general result as B mode, but more interaction required on your part. Not for everyone, especially if it is "one pedal" driving you are interested in. I got use to it fast and it became second nature in no time.

I think, in retrospect that one pedal driving creates bad driving habits that can bite you in the butt when driving in other vehicles.

Aerowhatt

 

[phb10186]

Welcome to the forum mivanci5 - hope you enjoy the car.

This whole 'brake lights on regen' thing is a bit confusing to me. The question I ask is 'what do the brake lights show'? - and that has traditionally been 'accelerator not applied, brakes applied'. So I suppose that it would make sense to have a deceleration threshold applied, irrespective of regen. That does alter the answer to the question to 'car decelerating'... though not arguing either way. I can't see too many circumstances where that could be misleading, but the 'one 'e' pedal' drive like the new Leaf has does suggest to me that the future of 'braking' insofar as the information to other road users is one of rate of deceleration. Sensible.

 

[Aerowhatt]

This whole 'brake lights on regen' thing is a bit confusing to me. The question I ask is 'what do the brake lights show'? - and that has traditionally been 'accelerator not applied, brakes applied'.

Right . . . So Mitsu obviously made regen deceleration in D right in the ballpark of ICE engine compression hold back through an automatic in legacy vehicles (smart - very different car - make it "feel" normal instead of markedly different). So drivers are use to a car in front of them slowing very gradually without brake lights illuminating. Eco mode regen is pushing that envelope of normal deceleration without brakes applied. B mode regen is definitely outside of that envelope. No matter what the government requirements are, it's too much deceleration not to have the brake lights on. I would get rear-ended driving in B mode. Mostly because people here follow way too close (like 15 feet at 35 mph or 45 mph. No way they can sense the B deceleration rate and react in time. When one presses the brake pedal the warning lights (brake lights) precede the deceleration. Very different scenario than having to sense the deceleration (without warning lights) and then react.

That's why Driving in D and using the regen only section of the brake pedal movement makes the most sense to me for slowing down. "Normal" (experientially expected) off accelerator deceleration. Followed by brake light warning and then more rapid deceleration. It's a more efficient way to drive according to my iMiev as well as safer. Anybody else that uses the acceleration of the car at will and has an RR after a full charge mostly ranging between 84 mile and 96 miles? I can't get those numbers driving in B mode. B mode is less efficient than properly managed D mode, hands down.

All of the brake light and deceleration intergration on EV's (that I am familiar with) are driven by regen thresholds not G forces. G force sensors are historically easily misled by other motion.

Aerowhatt

 

[Don]

Anybody else that uses the acceleration of the car at will and has an RR after a full charge mostly ranging between 84 mile and 96 miles? I can't get those numbers driving in B mode. B mode is less efficient than properly managed D mode, hands down.

I don't see how you can say that

Perhaps if you are comparing only 'foot off the pedal' deceleration between B, D and Eco, you may have a case, but who drives that way? I sure don't

Properly managed, you can drive in B and mimic the deceleration rate of the other two modes (or anything in between) just by modulating the go pedal. I drive in B 100% of the time (as does my wife) and we can get real world, everyday ranges in the 80's, (and I'm sure we could do even better if we didn't live where much of our driving to and from home wasn't done at 45 mph or so) plus we've never come close to getting rear ended - If you're always either on the pedal or completely off the pedal in B and you're not closely watching your mirrors, I can see where you would have a problem - We just don't drive that way

I've been driving for 50 years downshifting manual transmission cars to slow rather than riding the brake and have never been rear ended . . . . but I never rapidly slow without brake lights when someone is 15 feet off my bumper either

I very seldom go from accelerating to foot off the pedal full regen in B - You're right . . . . that's NOT an efficient way to drive. If that happens, it means I'm either following too closely, or I haven't been looking ahead, planning on when I'll need to slow and by how much. I find it much easier to modulate the 'go' pedal than modulating the brake pedal. With the accelerator, you have your heel firmly planted on the floor and you don't tend to lose your frame of reference like you do with the brake pedal where you have to raise your foot, 'find' the altitude of the pedal, depress it just enough to get regen, all with your heel up in the air - Then, as you begin to slow, everything tends to shift forward a tad and you find yourself unconsciously applying more brake, getting into the friction portion when you didn't want to and you have to consciously ease up a bit to get back into regen only. Friction braking is terrible for efficiency too. I try not to use that except to come to a complete stop. Finding that 'dead space' on the brake pedal where regen is applied but friction braking is not isn't an easy thing to do, and then when you do find it, staying in it is even harder. Ir would be easier if the brake pedal was a carbon copy of the accelerator, but for your left foot, so you could do it all with your heel on the floor and without having to raise your foot from one pedal to the other - I just find it much, much easier modulating the go pedal

I agree - This isn't for everybody and I'm not recommending it because not everyone could manage it without thinking. It amazes me how many drivers cannot do a steady speed. Following people who ease into the gas until they see they are going to fast and then easing off the gas until they see they are going too slow and repeating that over and over ever few hundred yards, mile after mile - I know you've all followed people like that . . . . it just amazes me how many of them there are out there. Your cruise control is useless when you're behind those people

Modulating the pedal is a natural habit for me. Partly learned when I bought a Kubota diesel garden tractor with a hydro-static transmission 10 or 12 years ago. It has a rocker pedal for forward and reverse and it has a brake pedal too. I've never used the brake pedal (except to lock it so I can get off without the engine dying) because the rocker pedal can do it all - You can slow or stop really quickly just by rocking it back far enough that you're actually using a portion of the reverse range for a brake . . . . kinda like regen - If you rock it back really hard while you're going forward, the wheels will spin in reverse while you're still moving forward. I got so used to using that pedal that modulating the go pedal on the iMiEV is a completely natural, unthinking habit - I ease off just enough to get whatever I need in the way of regenerative braking - Just a little bit, quite a bit, or all that's available. Mimicing what D or Eco can do is easy . . . . having the full regen of B whenever I need it without the need to apply the brake pedal is the best of all possible worlds

I just wish that B had 100% of the total available regen, but unfortunately, it does not

Friction braking - There is a guy in Ohio with more than 400,000 miles on a 2012 Chevy Volt. His factory brake pads are still in good shape. Not having to burn off and waste kinetic energy using old fashioned friction and heat is one BIG reason we're all driving EV's . . . . isn't it?

Don

 

[Aerowhatt]

Anybody else that uses the acceleration of the car at will and has an RR after a full charge mostly ranging between 84 mile and 96 miles? I can't get those numbers driving in B mode. B mode is less efficient than properly managed D mode, hands down.

I don't see how you can say that

Perhaps if you are comparing only 'foot off the pedal' deceleration between B, D and Eco, you may have a case, but who drives that way? I sure don't

Properly managed, you can drive in B and mimic the deceleration rate of the other two modes (or anything in between) just by modulating the go pedal. I drive in B 100% of the time (as does my wife) and we can get real world, everyday ranges in the 80's, (and I'm sure we could do even better if we didn't live where much of our driving to and from home wasn't done at 45 mph or so) plus we've never come close to getting rear ended - If you're always either on the pedal or completely off the pedal in B and you're not closely watching your mirrors, I can see where you would have a problem - We just don't drive that way

Don

It just is true. When I got the car I tried every mode for best overall efficiency. I drive the same way I always have. Accelerate briskly, look way down the road so that I know when to start slowing and decelerate as gently as practical with traffic etc. I've been rear ended 3 times over the years. No excuse for it, I never decelerate quickly unless an animal runs out in front of me or someone pulls out in front of me. Heck two of them I was stopped at a red light with another car in front of me. For decades I have flashed the brake lights before actually braking (and sometimes when already stopped, to wake up that fast approaching car behind). Much like the newest brake lights now do automatically (Strobing the high center brake light). I think you are nuts driving most of the time without (automatically) engaging brake lights. But if it is working for you then great.

I've driven sticks all of my life too. The best fuel efficiency is achieved by accelerating briskly and getting to speed (in town) 1st - 2nd- 3rd. Then straight to 5th to basically idle along maintaining speed. If I would see a reason needing to slow or stop way up ahead. I would drop it into neutral and coast until braking was required. Last vehicle was a 2005 Honda civic 5 speed. EPA rated it at 30mpg combined and I normally got 44mpg in mixed driving. Sold it at 73k miles with original brakes and 60% wear remaining according to the report the buyer got on it from a mechanics pre-purchase inspection. Never saw the point to a bunch of downshifting unless actually racing (done that). It wastes gas and causes undue wear and tear on the engine, transmission and clutch.

Enough said, mivanci5 certainly has a few diverse viewpoints at this juncture to experiment with. To find his/her own best, most comfortable way to use, the options for driving the iMiev for best efficiency, most fun or whatever the priority might be.

Aerowhatt

 

[Aerowhatt]

I find it much easier to modulate the 'go' pedal than modulating the brake pedal. With the accelerator, you have your heel firmly planted on the floor and you don't tend to lose your frame of reference like you do with the brake pedal where you have to raise your foot, 'find' the altitude of the pedal, depress it just enough to get regen, all with your heel up in the air - Then, as you begin to slow, everything tends to shift forward a tad and you find yourself unconsciously applying more brake, getting into the friction portion when you didn't want to and you have to consciously ease up a bit to get back into regen only.Don

I was thinking about this and wondering "why don't I feel the same way?". I never paid attention before but I never lift my heel to switch from accelerator to brake pedal or vice-versa. I just rotate my foot and the heel stays grounded in the same place the whole time. That gives me the same fine touch (that you have on the accelerator) on my brake pedal with a fixed frame of reference at all times for both pedals. For me, this easily explains the difference in preference. But I still think you are nuts Don for not having your brake lights on earlier, rather than later

Aerowhatt

 

[mivanci5]

Croatian style of driving is something on Italian side… but maybe not so much aggressive.
So I experimented this week to see what I find the best. I drive fast, not crazy fast, but like in ski slalom, I pick up the speed and drive on the line to brake as lees as I can… for this, I find “B” great. But “D” is not so much different, may be I’m more use to “D” as I drive manual all my life, so for me in open road “D” is way to go.

For City, “B” is way better for stop and go in rush hour… but it loses purpose as regen cuts of under 15km/h so anyway you need to brake… but from light to light, “B” is better. Still question is brake lights In “B” while in City… I will see about that, I’m not so comfortable about it.

I think with time, I will find what works for my conditions and me.

After less of week ownership, some news and questions…

My heated seats died… I did not bother to check what is wrong, I do not like heated seats anyway… I will check fuses, etc.. when I will feel like it…

I was checking range to work, with heating, and without… it is around -4C in the morning, and up to +1 in afternoon. So I was preheating the car, and tried different approaches. As I bought the car I ordered water heater on fuel from China, because I knew the heating thing can be a range issue… but after first careful driving and playing with electric heater… I found out that I come home (around 70km) every day with 40-50km range left… so today I was going BIG heating myself almost on max for 70km and I was driving “normal” (fast) and I come home with 10-15km range…
And this was driving with hard acceleration, and for cca10km of highway top speed 135km/h… and on open road outside urban 90-100km/h
So I think this is not bad on winter tires and electric heating.
Anyway, fuel water heater is in the mail, so for next winter il be ready with even more range.

Strange thing that I need advice about is steering. It feels like front caster is wrong on wheel alignment. Steering wheel thus not self-center well on small degree turn… If you steer left for fu degrees and let go the steering wheel, it stays that way… I’m not use to that, I do not remember I ever drive the car that behaved like that. This can be also because winter tires, so I will wait to see what will happened when I change them for a fu weeks. But I will like to hear from you guys, your experience.

 

[phb10186]

Strange thing that I need advice about is steering. It feels like front caster is wrong on wheel alignment. Steering wheel thus not self-center well on small degree turn… If you steer left for fu degrees and let go the steering wheel, it stays that way… I’m not use to that, I do not remember I ever drive the car that behaved like that. This can be also because winter tires, so I will wait to see what will happened when I change them for a fu weeks. But I will like to hear from you guys, your experience.

I'd say that's normal - an attribute of very narrow front tyres, rear wheel drive and electric power steering seems to result in that - unless of course you're tyres are incorrectly inflated - OR - not inflated equally on both sides. The narrow track and relative height, with low centre of gravity will also be factors that make the steering and handling feel that way. I will say that the steering feel for a car with these credentials and electric power steering is excellent - far better than some other vehicles with electric power steering. I test drove a Hyundai IX35 and Honda CRV two weeks ago (looking at a new family car the the wife), and I didn't like the electronic assistance in either of those (the RAV4 was superior), so there appear to be several factors including the competency of the electronic assistance. It may be worth checking the alignment if you still think it is off.