Mitsubishi does not want to sell EVs in the USA

[AlfredWAB]

I am becoming more and more convinced that statement may well be fact. Actions speak way louder than words, but I'm not seeing any action or words. I just got back from attending a wonderful EV event where I learned a lot.

Mitsubishi was suppose to be there with the iMiev, but they didn't even bother to show up. I got to hear from all the other major auto companies about their future plans for EV production and test-drive a lot of other EVs. Even got to see the Tesla S, and several lesser brands I'd never even heard of yet. Including a cool truck with a 40 mile electric range that carries an onboard generator to extend the range. Marketed towards construction and stuff, because the generator could be used to power electric equipment on site as well, pulling from the battery first, but turning on the generator if more electricity was needed. But no Mitsubishi. They were on the brochure and program, but didn't come.

There was a diplomat from the Netherlands there. He was the only one to even mention Mitsubishi. The Mitsubishi Highlander EV is the top selling car in the Netherlands. Over 25% of new car sales are now EVs in the Netherlands. Guess what? We can't even buy it in the USA.

Conclusion, if Mitsubishi doesn't care enough to market their EVs in the USA, how can I count on them to be around to service and support the vehicle in the future? At this point, I am seriously considering a different EV, probably the Nissan Leaf. It sells a high volume, they actively promote and support it. It appears to have been designed as an EV, not huge loss of trunk space like with so many of the EV converted vehicles of Ford and others. And I thought it was a really nice car. Definitely more expensive than the iMiev. But is it really worth waiting for the 2014 iMiev to get here? I'm not so sure.

 

[jray3]

Awww Alfred, don't be so harsh. The Mitsubishi boss says he wants to sell lots of EVs, so it must be true. His company is just incompetent at PR, Marketing, production planning and relationship management with their dealers.

In return, we're able to reap a valuable windfall in the form of fire-sale pricing. :lol:
Some of us bought the car due to it's simplicity and (hopefully) hackability, and salvaged parts are now starting to become available. I'm confident that we'll be able to keep it running for a very long time, just as was the case with 1990's RAV4 EVs, Ford Rangers, Solectrias, etc...

 

[ndm]

AlfredWAB I'd really like to know what kind of truck you saw at the show, getting an electric truck with a range extender is a dream of mine , the oi' f150 would hit the market fast, that truck sounds like the ICEing on the cake for this dead Dino hater!

 

[Vike]

AlfredWAB I'd really like to know what kind of truck you saw at the show, getting an electric truck with a range extender is a dream of mine , the oi' f150 would hit the market fast, that truck sounds like the ICEing on the cake for this dead Dino hater!

Probably these guys:
http://www.viamotors.com/vehicles/electric-truck/

Been hearing about them for a while now, though they're $80k and not quite actually delivering yet. But hey, give 'em $1000 to let 'em know you're serious and they'll promise to get back to you eventually.

 

[AlfredWAB]

Yes, that is the one. And they had one there which was very impressive.

Probably the guys best line in his presentation was the reaction to the $80k price.
"Most guys say they would never spend $80K on a truck. I just tell them that they already do."
Then he proceeded with a very excellent financial presentation on truck costs over an 8 yr life.
Which is the period of time they are guaranteeing the motor for, but expect an even longer life.

People always talk about the gas saved in electric vehicles and how that saves money.
But they don't talk about the other savings in maintenance, etc.

Some that I hadn't even thought about before:
1) If you use your regenerative braking well, conventional brakes last a lot longer.
2) Don't have to pay for Smog checks.
3) Lube & Oil every x miles.

 

[jray3]

Yep, I'm sold on VIA- wanna get one on the road in my School District as a maintenance vehicle.

 

[Vike]

Yeah, I was being a little snippy about VIA there. But to be clear, it isn't really the $80k that annoys me, for exactly the reasons AlfredWAB notes - especially for a commercial vehicle with applications for the remote generator (a unique and impressive capability).

What bugs me a lot more is that they've been talking a good story for a while now and not delivering anything. There have been so many scams and failures in this product space that I tend to remain pretty skeptical until there are confirmed retail deliveries. Did the VIA guy give a firm date for shipping? Their web site sure doesn't.

At least Outlander P-HEVs (to get marginally back on topic ) are actually for sale in Japan and Europe. Given that, it's a bit inconsistent to be skeptical about Mitsu's intentions while embracing VIA vaporware.

 

[Don]

I am becoming more and more convinced that statement may well be fact. Actions speak way louder than words, but I'm not seeing any action or words

I would argue that the biggest 'action' was when they created a completely different car for North America - Longer, taller and wider than the domestic/Euro version. If they had the slightest misgivings about selling them here, why not save a ton of money, lots of time and trouble and just import the same version of the car that they are selling everywhere else?

Don

 

[Vike]

If they had the slightest misgivings about selling them here, why not save a ton of money, lots of time and trouble and just import the same version of the car that they are selling everywhere else?

The JDM version of the i-MiEV would not meet American crash standards. The car is longer for U.S.-spec bumpers, and wider to create enough space between front seats and doors to allow side airbags to deploy (ever notice how far away those dinky stock armrests are from your elbows?). As has been discussed elsewhere, it would have been a good idea to go with bigger wheels while they were at it, as the stock tires can barely handle the added weight of the batteries, but it wasn't strictly necessary, so they gave that a pass. Given Mitsu's interest in electrification (where they feel they have significant advantages) and attributes that made the i a suitable BEV platform (a small efficient RWD package tall enough to accommodate batteries under the passengers), the mods were worth it considering the alternatives. No other BEV option was feasible within the time frame, e.g., a BEV Lancer would have been about as competitive as a Coda, and the Mirage is packaged all wrong.

What happened after the project was green-lighted is anybody's guess, but it does seem a cavalcade of bad breaks. Masuko now seems to think the company's global future is in electrifying (BEV or PHEV) C/SUVs, not micro cars, so I'm guessing there was a change of heart some time before the i-MiEV launched in NA. Cold feet undoubtedly went icy when a spike in the yen forced a last-minute price increase, especially after Mitsu realized that Nissan was pricing the LEAF more aggressively than expected. The overpriced SE/Premium packages did less to improve overall margins than to undermine the car's perceived value quotient, especially (and critically) among reviewers.

At this point it looks like the "We've already spent the R&D money, may as well price 'em to sell" camp has won the internal argument (at least for now), bringing the car back with a simplified (and far more attractive) pricing structure, presumably one that at least covers unit manufacturing costs. But with Outlander PHEV sales apparently constrained by the supply of the same batteries that power the i-MiEV, the question now may be one of availability. Gone are the days of insisting that certified dealers hold a couple of i-MiEVs in inventory, obviously, but the new car may even be a strictly ship to order proposition. And hanging over the whole story is the cloud of Mitsu's plummeting U.S. sales, exacerbated by the highly questionable move of taking the Outlander PHEV to Europe first. While I take Masuko at his word that Mitsubishi can't be the company it wants to be without North American sales, he could be overtaken by circumstances; I've no idea how much longer dealerships can be expected to hold on with the current product mix. So for the i-MiEV, availability of dealers might wind up being an even bigger problem than availability of cars.

I guess we'll know more in a few months - and more still next year.

 

[Mart]

But with Outlander PHEV sales apparently constrained by the supply of the same batteries that power the i-MiEV, the question now may be one of availability. Gone are the days of insisting that certified dealers hold a couple of i-MiEVs in inventory, obviously, but the new car may even be a strictly ship to order proposition. And hanging over the whole story is the cloud of Mitsu's plummeting U.S. sales, exacerbated by the highly questionable move of taking the Outlander PHEV to Europe first. While I take Masuko at his word that Mitsubishi can't be the company it wants to be without North American sales, he could be overtaken by circumstances; I've no idea how much longer dealerships can be expected to hold on with the current product mix. So for the i-MiEV, availability of dealers might wind up being an even bigger problem than availability of cars.

I guess we'll know more in a few months - and more still next year.

Several years ago, before Toyota had opened its plant in Blue Springs, Mississippi, I had the opportunity to ask one of the Toyota execs if they could build the Prius (as they had announced) at that plant without a U.S. battery supplier? He admitted that they didn't think it would be possible, and the plant now produces Corollas. (Of course there was the whole sordid settlement between Chevron-Ovonics and Toyota over the NiMH batteries and the Yen/USD exchange rate involved too.)

Mitsubishi has announced they are moving i-MiEV battery production to a separate facility to avoid the competition with the Outlander PHEV. That may buy them time. Unless Mitsubishi starts PHEV/BEV production near the Normal plant, I don't see how they could do a ship-to-order system in America within a reasonable time. Perhaps the Enerdels that went into the old Th!nk City would work if the contracts with LEJ/Yuasa allow it and the capacity is in place. Otherwise the Normal plant will be left making ICE cars in a company moving towards PHEV/EV. I'm only about 160 miles from Don in Biloxi, and that's the closest Mitsubishi dealership to me. They may as well figure transport into the cost of a new MiEV.

 

[Vike]

Mitsubishi has announced they are moving i-MiEV battery production to a separate facility to avoid the competition with the Outlander PHEV. . . Unless Mitsubishi starts PHEV/BEV production near the Normal plant, I don't see how they could do a ship-to-order system in America within a reasonable time.

I'd heard about that battery move, but I can't pretend I know what it means. At the end of the day, since the cars are built from the same technology, battery supplies are fungible, and it sure sounds like they're under pretty intense demand pressure for the Outlander.

As to the rest, please note that I said ship to order, not build to order. The new i-MiEV comes with a greatly simplified list of options, so what I envision is shipping from large lots on the coasts, perhaps another in Normal (i.e., places from which they're shipping to their dealers anyway). They'd still be selling from inventory, but an inventory with few variations owned by MMNA in just a couple of U.S. locations, not your dealership. Build to order would be completely impractical - I just don't think there'd be any justification for setting up a painting and final assembly facility here for such a small number of cars. You might be looking at a wait if you order near the end of a cycle and you insist on a color that's no longer on hand (I'm going to guess there'll be a lot of silver, the non-color that's least likely to offend), but otherwise you should be able to have it in a week or two.

But again, hard to say. Mitsubishi seems to have gotten just awful at selling cars in North America, so this might involve logistics challenges utterly beyond their capabilities. I hope not.

 

[AlfredWAB]

Well, even if Mitsubishi wants to sell them in the USA, their dealers's don't! At least the one closest to where I live won't.

I had my wife's Ford Fusion Hybrid in for service at the Roseville Automall. So, I decided to walk over to the Mitsubishi Dealership there and talk about the iMiev. Maybe get an idea of when they might be expecting it? The first salesperson didn't have a clue what I was talking about. He finally got a more senior Salesperson out, who told me they have no plans of selling it there. They don't think it will sell well enough to be worth putting in the required charging station. They suggested that I go across the street to the Fiat dealership because they had put in a charging station and were selling their EV.

Really nice representation you have for your company Mitsubishi. Trying to sell your competitors product and won't even carry yours.

 

[Don]

Well, even if Mitsubishi wants to sell them in the USA, their dealers's don't! At least the one closest to where I live won't.

The decision to carry and sell/service the iMiEV was always left up to the individual dealerships - If they wanted to do so, they had to get sales and service people trained ahead of time. When we bought our car, our dealer had 4 in stock - Two designated for themselves and two others originally designated for another dealership who failed to get the required training done in time

Don

 

[DaveMiller]

I see that I-Mievs are now listed on the Mitsubishi web site again:
http://www.mitsubishicars.com/upcoming-vehicles
I think this is good news.
Dave

 

[danpatgal]

I was kind of hoping that the new really low prices for 2014 would be kind of a boon for the little iMiev. My local dealer sold a 2014 within a month of having it back in May, but they have not received any new stock since then (though the 2012 iMiev trade-in is on the lot). I figured June might be a little low just getting supplies of the 2014 in. But I thought July would see some decent sales boost. I checked at InsideEVs the other day ... ugh, there were only 17 sold in July.

I guess Mitsubishi is a little afraid to really try and market the car or can't build the vehicles due to other constraints. Or they're just pinning their sales hopes on the Outlander PHEV which could give them more margins and be a bigger hit for the US market. That's fine, but it seems to me if you're going to do a couple small enhancements on the iMiev and put in a major price reduction, you were probably wanting to sell the thing. Perhaps we just have a stealth Sergio Marchionne (who is quoted as saying, "Don't buy the Fiat 500e because we lose money") at the helm of Mitsubishi ...

 

[PV1]

I've given up on trying to figure out what Mitsubishi wants to do with the i-MiEV. There is exactly 1 2014 within 100 miles of me (Altoona, though I think that's farther than 100 miles). A dealer in Greensburg used to have one, they must have sold it.

The dealer where I bought mine had their main i-MiEV guy move to Chicago, and it's turned into quite the experience getting the car serviced.

The piece of paper in my back window has done more to advertise the car than Mitsubishi has done in the US. I've heard one radio commercial in the last 2.5 years. I don't know if it was spurred by my conversation with the guys at the Auto Show, but the timing was too good to not be a coincidence.

With the age of the i (started in 2006) and i-MiEV (in 2010) and the obvious cost saving done with parts sharing, I can't see Mitsubishi still taking a loss on each one sold. Obviously there was a profit margin if making a few things standard knocked $6,000 off the price. The car is quite popular outside NA.

 

[klindholm]

Skyline Mitsubishi in Denver has one in stock so I went there to have a look. I have a 2012, and am somewhat interested in the new model due to the price and the DC quick charge (which mine does not have).

The salesman spent most of the time trying to talk me into the Mirage, saying it was a much better car for the money even though I clearly only showed interest in the i-Miev. It was listed at 24,035$ with dealer handling and transportation, etc, the only option it has is the usb port for music. After much time, he said he could go down to 23,501$ which he claimed was invoice pricing.

Then came the kicker, he checked on incentives and laughed as he said the i-Miev is the only Mitsubishi car that they do not offer the $500 loyalty rebate on.

I think this echoes the sentiments on how Mitsubishi treats the i-Miev.

Kevin

 

[PV1]

The salesman spent most of the time trying to talk me into the Mirage

Mine tried talking me into a Lancer Evo a few months after buying the i-MiEV (I went back for service about 4 months after buying it). There are Mirage's everywhere, almost more than Outlanders (and definitely more than the new-style Outlander). I had a feeling it would drown the i-MiEV when they introduced it.

 

[JoeS]

A gentleman who had contacted me a few weeks ago through this forum and to whom I gave a test drive ended up going to Southern California to buy his i-MiEV.

Today, I went online and decided to query the Mitsu dealerships in my area to see if and how many 2014 i-MiEVs they have in stock.

First off, the Mitsu corporate website only offers me the choice of five dealerships "closest" to me (less than 50 miles, in my case). They provide links to the dealerships' websites.

None of the Mitsubishi dealership websites offer the i-MiEV in their pull-down search menus. Ignoring that and selecting their entire new vehicle inventories, it looks as though there is no Mitsubishi dealer around here that has an i-MiEV in stock! I expanded to search to Sacramento (over 100 miles away). Same thing. Ergo, none available in Northern California. I started querying the Southern California Mitsu dealerships, but eventually gave up looking as I didn't find any i-MiEVs.

I didn't go to the trouble of calling any dealerships to confirm this.

No inventory = poor sales, methinks.

The Mitsubishi home site http://www.mitsubishicars.com/ still prominently displays the i-MiEV and touts the Pike's Peak electric performance as well.

I don't get it, but suspect that i-MiEV production is battery-limited, with the bulk of the batteries going to the Outlander PHEV.

 

[iwatson]

I don't get it, but suspect that i-MiEV production is battery-limited, with the bulk of the batteries going to the Outlander PHEV.

What's not to get? Dealerships are independent businesses that sell Mitsubishi vehicles. In 2012 When the I-Miev first came to the U.S. the local Mitsubishi dealer in our city ordered three. After 18 months on the lot they sold them for less than they paid for them (fire sale) just to get rid of them. In addition these little cars have little if any profit in them for the local dealer, and it's so much easier to sell an Outlander or Lancer that they just might make a little money of.

So It's a hard sell to convince the average Joe (Sorry JoeS) to buy an electric car, it doesn't make any money, and they don't want to get stuck with them again. Only a high-volume dealer or a risky son-of-a-gun is going to stock it.

I'm quite sure you could go into any Mitsu dealer and order one for full boat, but finding dealers that stock them might be tough. Last month Mitsubishi was dead last in plug-in car sales in the US, selling only 17 copies of this little jewel. That's a shame too! It's a great little car, but I guess very few people can see the value in it!