Make Level 3 charging standard on i-MiEVs

[Vike]

There's a good deal of confusion around what's happening with Level 3 charging in the U.S. Even as California and a few other states begin to deploy Level 3 charging stations based on the CHAdeMO standard used by the LEAF and i-MiEV, American and German manufacturers have chosen to "standardize" on the currently vaporware SAE Combined Charging System (CCS). A spokesman for General Motors has gone so far as to urge an "embargo" on further deployment of CHAdeMO charging infrastructure, suggesting that this would be an irresponsible use of taxpayer money. Such an embargo would be an incredibly hostile act against the "early adopter" buyers of CHAdeMO equipped EVs, especially since there is no such thing as a CCS-ready car or charger on the market today. Manufacturers of level 3 chargers have no interest in the embargo, pointing out that supporting both standards is no big deal, adding perhaps 5% to the cost of the charger.

Quick charging capability is a valuable feature, but if Mitsubishi is really interested in providing it for their customers, it would seem to me that the only way to protect CHAdeMO as a future option is to "seed" the market with as many CHAdeMO-ready cars as possible. The more CHAdeMO users are in the field, the more likely that those deploying quick-charge infrastructure will include CHAdeMO support at their facilities. Even if CCS becomes the long-term standard in the U.S. (as seems likely), there is no reason that the first phases of level 3 charging infrastructure can't be "dual format", and they certainly will be if there are significant numbers of customers using CHAdeMO.

For this reason, I believe that Mitsubishi (as well as Nissan) should stop sending cars to (or building cars in) the U.S. without CHAdeMO charging ports. Every car they sell without level 3 charging capability is another nail in the coffin of CHAdeMO, reducing demand for CHAdeMO capability and therefore the likelihood of CHAdeMO being included at new charging stations. If they're not going to make it standard, I'd argue that taking money for a CHAdeMO "option" today verges on fraudulent because of the "numbers game" I describe above. In that case they should probably just give up and wait for CCS before offering Level 3.

 

[Don]

To me, the CHAdeMO port is an excellent example of something that *should be* a standalone option - It's fairly expensive and something that maybe less than half of prospective buyers really want . . . . much like your opinion of the SE package. I know if I had been forced to spend $200 or more for something I'll never use, I would be one of those griping at Mitsu for making me waste my money. At least as things now stand, if you got stuck with a car that came with one, maybe you could sell it to someone who really wanted one and didn't get it, for whatever reason

If Mitsu (or anyone else) tries to sell the public on the notion that this is a car they can drive 300 or 400 miles per day (delivery service or something similar?) I think they're going to have LOTS of unhappy customers in just a year or two when those folks have 'cooked' an expensive battery by frequently quick charging it - As it is, they do give us a warning against doing so in the owners manual because it's not a product designed to be used in that manner. Having to buy a new battery every year or two surely wouldn't enhance it's standing in the minds of prospective customers . . . . once they did a Google search and read some of the horror stories, they'd likely never want to own any EV and that won't help grow the community

Don

 

[fjpod]

When I first heard that chademo would probably not be the standard in the US, I was "upset" as well..., but what's really going to happen is that fast chargers will have two or three types or charging cords hanging from them...the same way gas pumps today have unleaded, plus, and premium.

 

[Vike]

When I first heard that chademo would probably not be the standard in the US, I was "upset" as well..., but what's really going to happen is that fast chargers will have two or three types or charging cords hanging from them...the same way gas pumps today have unleaded, plus, and premium.

Gosh, hopefully just two :mrgreen:

 

[Vike]

If Mitsu (or anyone else) tries to sell the public on the notion that this is a car they can drive 300 or 400 miles per day (delivery service or something similar?) I think they're going to have LOTS of unhappy customers in just a year or two when those folks have 'cooked' an expensive battery by frequently quick charging it.

Don, I'd agree - if you need Level 3 charging to make an EV work in your day-to-day life, don't buy an EV. To me the point of quick-chargers is to provide a little extra kick to occasionally extend the capabilities of your EV for special needs. Even if we had a pretty good network of L3 stations around us, I doubt I'd use them even once a month. That said, I live in Albuquerque, and sometimes it's handy to be able to head to Santa Fe, probably just beyond the i's freeway range, one way. Quick charging would make this feasible should it be necessary. More generally, I think a quick-charge port would be handy on almost any EV, because life can throw us some unexpected curves.

Unfortunately, because auto manufacturers did not agree on a coordinated approach, it looks like we're doing a Beta/VHS thing with CHAdeMO and SAE-CCS. If Nissan and Mitsubishi don't push L3 charging w/CHAdeMO aggressively, they probably shouldn't sell it at all.

 

[Don]

I think what we're going to see is a bunch of special parking spaces in front of some businesses with Level 2 charging cords provided, probably for free - Shop with us and get a charge for your car . . . . the farther away from home you are, he longer you're likely to shop

Whatever the protocol for fast charging that eventully evolves will likely be tied to the development of some yet to be invented battery design which can be rapidly recharged without it harming tghe battery, and that's probably as it should be. There will probably be some sort of control designed into it where the battery can 'talk' to the charge source to tell it how much it can take and how quickly. Trying to come up with that sort of charge protocol now using Lithium batteries would be like the beta vs VHS thing all over again - It would get dumped when something better comrs along. I just don't want to be forced to pay for an antique charging port right now. Watched anything lately on your BetaMax machine???

Don

 

[Vike]

Trying to come up with that sort of charge protocol now using Lithium batteries would be like the beta vs VHS thing all over again - It would get dumped when something better comrs along. I just don't want to be forced to pay for an antique charging port right now. Watched anything lately on your BetaMax machine???

Well, I haven't watched anything for years on my VHS deck either - though I take it that's your point.

Even so, VCRs (both Beta and VHS) served me quite well for many years before DVD/DVR tech displaced them, and greatly enhanced the functionality of my television over just tuning in whatever was being broadcast at the moment. Since the tech of the future isn't available right now and I want to buy today, my own assessment is that my EV may be more useful to me for more years if it has the additional capability offered by L3 charging. In the context of a $30k purchase, the $700 increment for CHAdeMO seems a small bet, one more valuable to me than alloy wheels.

Yes, a CHAdeMO port might wind up seeming a white elephant (though it does no harm). Then again, so might an EV with no L3 capability whatever (though it will still be quite useful). We'll see how things play out.

 

[fjpod]

When I first heard that chademo would probably not be the standard in the US, I was "upset" as well..., but what's really going to happen is that fast chargers will have two or three types or charging cords hanging from them...the same way gas pumps today have unleaded, plus, and premium.

Gosh, hopefully just two :mrgreen:

Well, let's see, we already have Level 2, Level 3 chaedemo, the Tesla version, and the old EV1 (which will disappear), ...and now the new one, what's it called?...SAE monster plug? I think we are looking at at least three. And you know what? The more the merrier. There's no reason why the charging equipment can't handle different plug types.

But as another poster said, I am unlikely to use Level 3 because it would cost me more to charge than it would if I just charged at home with Level 1 or 2. I could only picture myself using it in rare instances.

 

[Vike]

Well, let's see, we already have Level 2, Level 3 chaedemo, the Tesla version, and the old EV1 (which will disappear), ...and now the new one, what's it called?...SAE monster plug? I think we are looking at at least three. And you know what? The more the merrier. There's no reason why the charging equipment can't handle different plug types.

But as another poster said, I am unlikely to use Level 3 because it would cost me more to charge than it would if I just charged at home with Level 1 or 2. I could only picture myself using it in rare instances.

I was just referring to Level 3 chargers. EV1s are crushed, of course, so not in the picture. I'm sure Tesla Superchargers will show up at all the best country clubs, but given their already extended range and small numbers, not too many other places (if they're staying in the business, they need to give up their martian sculptures and get on the same page with the rest of the industry, or their customers aren't going to have too many charging opportunities).

So sure, Level 2, but for Level 3 hopefully just CHAdeMO and SAE CCS. More is not merrier - charger manufacturers have suggested additional costs for "dual format" CHAdeMO / CCS would run around 5%, so $500-1000, and additional formats would just up the ante further. As SAE CCS proves itself and CCS cars and chargers enter the market in numbers, I expect CHAdeMO will eventually fade from the scene. But unless there's some incredible jump in EV sales the moment CCS arrives, I also expect CHAdeMO cars will represent a hefty chunk of the market for Level 3 charging for several years, and will be served accordingly.

Only using L3 in rare instances sounds about right, and I think your point about the cost of Level 3 charging is an important one. Given the capital investment for the heavy power service and the chargers themselves, it's hard to imagine a price that will provide tolerable return on investment being any cheaper per mile than gasoline, maybe even pricier. Add to that the wear and tear on batteries, and while this is an important supplemental service for extending EV range on a temporary basis for occasional special needs, I don't see it being something one would use day to day. If a driver regularly needs that kind of range, they'd probably be better off with a PHEV.

 

[jennrod12]

Maybe someday those with CHAdeMO chargers will need to buy a SSE CCS -> CHAdeMO adapter. Like Tesla owners do now with a J1772 -> Tesla adapter.

Jenn

 

[Vike]

Maybe someday those with CHAdeMO chargers will need to buy a SSE CCS -> CHAdeMO adapter.

I've wondered about that, and I hope it will prove feasible. Level 3 is moving some hellacious current and the control interface for CCS looks nothing like CHAdeMO, so the adapter, should one be available, would have to be both hefty and smart. To me that sounds like $$$, but probably nothing like retro-fitting a L2-only EV to support L3 charging.

If these issues can be addressed and give us a safe, practical device for a couple hundred bucks, that would be a major win. Just as good would be a complete retrofit to replace the CHAdeMO port in the car with SAE CCS - that would be worth more than the adapter to me (much less hassle to use), but hopefully still doable in the same price range (something under $500). That's probably something I wouldn't undertake unless/until I needed it and there was some significant CCS charging infrastructure around me, though obviously, the lower the price, the more readily I'd do it.

 

[mievsolar]

I believe after seeing in the SAE-CCS 3 stage charger plug that this will become the standard. The L3 DC fast charge is simpler that the Japanees standard. As far as adaptors for DC fast charging, well that may work, but is a pain. I think Tesla should adapt the standard. Seem wired that they do not. I guess they are in their own little world like Apple is. LOL. That is OK as long as I can charge from my 120 or 240 V outlets.

I thought I made a mistake by not getting the "fast charge " feature in our MiEV, but after I realized there are NO fast charge stations in the greater Denver area I said to myself "gee had I bought that extra feature I would not have even been able to use it for maybe another year or two if that" because it will take at least 2 years or more to install fast charge stations and besides I think once the SAE-CCS 3 charge units catch on the current Asian fast charge will slowly disappear. As hoers have said , we will see who it all works out. I am good for now with the 120V charger that comes with the car and for now plugging in at other 240V stations when I need that "ester Boost" for a charge.

In fact speaking about charging, I also thought I would have to run out and buy a Level 2, 240V charging station ($700-$100 plus installation $200-500), but we are coming to find out we drive an average of 45 miles when we use the EV and that it charges up fine over night. We still may get a L3 charger, but are in no hurry as we have to run a 240V line into our garage that only has 120V AC.

We will look at trade in maybe in 3-5 years or just change out the battery pack in 5 years. The fast charge to me would come in if we attempted to drive to Idaho to see our son. But it will be at least 5-10 years before there are that many fast charge stations to be able to travel those type of distances. I also feel that if you where constantly fast charging your battery bank that you would use up its life. There is no such thing as a free lunch, but there is a such thing as charging with free electrons (i.e.. Charging from a solar electric array).

 

[mievsolar]

I think what we're going to see is a bunch of special parking spaces in front of some businesses with Level 2 charging cords provided, probably for free - Shop with us and get a charge for your car . . . . the farther away from home you are, he longer you're likely to shop

Whatever the protocol for fast charging that eventully evolves will likely be tied to the development of some yet to be invented battery design which can be rapidly recharged without it harming tghe battery, and that's probably as it should be. There will probably be some sort of control designed into it where the battery can 'talk' to the charge source to tell it how much it can take and how quickly. Trying to come up with that sort of charge protocol now using Lithium batteries would be like the beta vs VHS thing all over again - It would get dumped when something better comrs along. I just don't want to be forced to pay for an antique charging port right now. Watched anything lately on your BetaMax machine???

Don

I agree. It worked for Walgreens. I never shop there until I plugged into their L2 charging station (actually they did not install it, they just gave a charging company the space to put their chargers. I went o dinner and when I came back I bought $50 of stuff I needed and maybe I used $.50 worth of electricity form the charger. A win win for both of us, in fact Walgreens made out like a bandit, but they got what they wanted and I got what I wanted. WIN WIN! That is the way the world needs to work more. Now if all Walgreens had solar array s on them...

I do not see the need for charging for L2 charging stations, fats charging stations maybe, but L1 and L2 never. L1 are just to slow unless you are staying over night somewhere then hotels would be the logical places for them.

 

[Don]

I believe after seeing in the SAE-CCS 3 stage charger plug that this will become the standard. The L3 DC fast charge is simpler that the Japanees standard. As far as adaptors for DC fast charging, well that may work, but is a pain. I think Tesla should adapt the standard. Seem wired that they do not. I guess they are in their own little world like Apple is. LOL. That is OK as long as I can charge from my 120 or 240 V outlets.

The Tesla is a completely different car - What 'works' for fast charging a 50Kw battery in a 300 hp car would have little application for our miniscule 16 Kw packs. Thank heavens whatever becomes 'standard' for them won't apply to us

I thought I made a mistake by not getting the "fast charge " feature in our MiEV, but after I realized there are NO fast charge stations in the greater Denver area I said to myself "gee had I bought that extra feature I would not have even been able to use it for maybe another year or two if that" because it will take at least 2 years or more to install fast charge stations and besides I think once the SAE-CCS 3 charge units catch on the current Asian fast charge will slowly disappear

I still believe that if you bought this car intending to use it for longer trips by fast charging the battery pack, you're barking up the wrong tree. I'm sure there may be a few folks who drive an i as their only car, but if I could only have one car and wanted an EV, it would definitely be a Chevy Volt - They were designed for that type of usage

In fact speaking about charging, I also thought I would have to run out and buy a Level 2, 240V charging station ($700-$100 plus installation $200-500), but we are coming to find out we drive an average of 45 miles when we use the EV and that it charges up fine over night. We still may get a L3 charger, but are in no hurry as we have to run a 240V line into our garage that only has 120V AC.

Level 1 charging does about 90% of what we need also. If you happen to have two 120 volt outlets in your garage which are fed by different breakers, you can still do Level 2 charging without running a dedicated wire. Investigate the 'Quick 220' box. http://www.quick220.com/220_catalog.htm

We will look at trade in maybe in 3-5 years or just change out the battery pack in 5 years. The fast charge to me would come in if we attempted to drive to Idaho to see our son. But it will be at least 5-10 years before there are that many fast charge stations to be able to travel those type of distances. I also feel that if you where constantly fast charging your battery bank that you would use up its life.

No doubt

 

[iMiEVNZ7]

Hey Guys,
Look at this EV 500 , a race ? or test over 500 miles in one day with a big fast charger. would be interesting to get data from them on battery temp and how capacity changed over the day due to fast charging.

If this was possible without damage, my trip of 385 Km each way would be easy. Would change my $ 270 NZ fuel bill to only $ 45 even if using a diesel generator.

The sums I have done here, based on the total cost of the car, with free power, comparing to a car that does 10 km to the litre, pretty much makes the car will only pay for itself, assuming no residual value after five years due to perhaps being outdated...indicate about 200 km per day needed to travel to be the same as if we brought a similar but petrol car and went the distance in fuel cost of the cost of the car.

Allowing a residual of $ 25, 000 out of the $ 51, 000 for the car, NZ $, the per day travel needed works out at 117 or so Km per day.

I am really keen on the car, I can't yet seem to find a way to make it pay for itself in fuel saving compared to a similar sized petrol car.

I could get a mail run and do higher miles ! maybe. As an eco taxi, and with a charging place for waiting for fares it would work ! Most fares here would only be 20 km tops.

Maybe a Hotel Shuttle from the Airport ?. Find an eco Hotel that has solar panels ?.

I am contacting the realpower people to see how much the charger is !




Edit: I forgot the link for the race....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDEb09xgW2w

or search real power 500 imiev

 

[jjlink]

SAE Finalizes New Electric Car Fast Charging “Combo Connector”
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1079858_sae-finalizes-new-electric-car-fast-charging-combo-connector

 

[Don]

That didn't take long - Finally they've done something which actually makes sense

"The new standard also allows for backward compatibility with existing level 2 charging stations.

In fact, the top half of the new combo connector is identical to existing level 2 charging sockets, allowing car fitted with it to charge at level 2, 240-volts when a rapid charging socket is not available."

A single charge port (instead of two different doors as we have now) and an all new plug which is still compatible with cars which cannot use quick charging at all - One plug hanging on charging cables all over town which does it all, and on new cars with Quick Charge capablilities as well as older cars which only have J-1772 L2 capablilities. The entire concept makes so much sense it's just plain scary

Our extra door, along with it's $700 CHAdeMO port is already a white elephant - Sure glad Mitsu didn't stick us all with the outdated CHAdeMO port . . . . which was the original topic of this thread

Don

 

[Vike]

This "new" SAE standard is not news, and they've taken plenty long - this was announced a year ago with much fanfare in Germany, some may recall; indeed, this was pointed out in my original post opening this thread. And to think, just one short year later, we're already getting to the "we've agreed to a standard" part - my head's sure spinning.

Again as previously noted, I do think the J-1772-CCS design is a good one; now all that's missing are any chargers or cars that use it. And when they first arrive, I'm not sure I'd jump to buy a new Chevy SparkEV (the first vehicle planned to use J-1772-CCS). Theory is great, but engineering is about delivering solutions to a messy, complicated, and sometimes unpredictable world, and I'm pretty sure I don't want to be the case study that teaches the engineers some unexpected lessons about their hot new 100kW charger.

Meanwhile, insulting CHAdeMO as a "white elephant" doesn't change the fact that it's the only non-proprietary fast DC charging system that's been delivered, nor that the capacity for emergency quick charging has real value. I have little trouble imagining scenarios where recovering range at a 12 mi/hr rate might not quite cut it - do you? I'm pretty sure I won't die for the lack of quick-charging, but it could definitely make the difference between a mildly annoying afternoon and a ruined weekend. I remain mystified as to why this pretty sensible precaution would be the subject of skepticism bordering on hostility.

 

[Don]

What's 'missing' for almost all of we early adopters is the ability to quick charge anywhere, using any sort of plug - Unless you live in certain parts of Washington or California the odds on you running across a quick charge plug are pretty slim, which is what struck me when you first penned this thread - Make everyone pay another $700 for a CHAdeMO socket when in all likelyhood, their car will never see anything to plug it into? . . . . and then a year or two later they find out they'll never ever get to use it because the standard has changed? That would make everyone feel . . . . fleeced. I haven't read every thread here, but I can't recall reading about anyone here ever using a Quick Charge station

I understand the value of the ability to quick charge the car (for some users) and if I was a car salesman trying to sell a car which came so equipped, I'd be pushing the benefits of that $700 accessory really hard because how else are you going to make someone think paying that money is a good idea? But, most of us bought the car because it fit our needs recharging it only in our garages, not because of promises that one day we could use it differently if and when public charging became available - That may take many years and that fact is what makes it easier to sell Chevy Volts and PNP's over true EV's. If we're ever going to sell many pure EV's we've either got to have the charging infrastructure already deployed *or* we've got to make people see the car can stand on it's own, which it can do for many users, depending on how far they need to go. We're tickled with what it can do and if one day there happens to be a public L2 cord somewhere, all the better, but even if it's never plugged in anywhere but our garage, it was still a great buy . . . . assuming I get the 100K from the original battery

I also understand your idea that if it was standard on every car, the customer wouldn't even know he/she has just shelled out a bunch of money for something they'll never use because the doillar figure would no longer even show up on the car's sticker. Maybe if it was original equipment on every Mitsu/Nissan it would help make CHAdeMO the standard?

For me, it's still a Betamax/VHS argument and back then most consumers also had a third option - Not to buy anything until they knew which tapes would be available and that's what most of the world did. For me, unless there was a CHAdeMO plug hanging on a cord somewhere within the range of my car the day I bought it, the $700 was a deal breaker, plain and simple and even then if I had the option, I would have passed - I just think repeated use would shorten the battery life and how long my battery pack lasts could mean buying this car was a mistake . . . . or not - If I one day have to shell out even $5K to have it replaced, that will make a recalculation of my overall 'fuel mileage' a sickening thing to consider

When I bought my car in May, the dealer had 4 of them. Two had the option and two didn't. The two without sold within 2 weeks and the other two are still sitting there. Pretty sure we'll never see a CHAdeMO quick charger in south Mississippi in our lifetimes and evidently the other prospective customers down here agree. Other than the two local Nissan dealerships, we still don't have a single public L2 charging cord anywhere . . . . our lone Mitsubishi dealership got 3 Level 2 charging stations when he got the 4 cars and they are still in their shipping boxes - None have been installed

I understand CHAdeMO is/was a good idea for the few owners who have such facilities within their driving range and who don't have to pay $5 to get $1.50 worth of electricity, but for the rest of us I feel really blessed that we weren't forced to buy a socket which it seems will indeed become a white elephant. I think if Mitsu had put one on every car (and upped the price of the car by even a couple hundred) it would have been a monumental mistake and I think they knew it when they designed the car.

Since you have an ES, you obviously paid extra for yours - Have you ever used it?

Don

 

[Vike]

. . .
I also understand your idea that if it was standard on every car, the customer wouldn't even know he/she has just shelled out a bunch of money for something they'll never use because the doillar figure would no longer even show up on the car's sticker. Maybe if it was original equipment on every Mitsu/Nissan it would help make CHAdeMO the standard?
. . .
For me, unless there was a CHAdeMO plug hanging on a cord somewhere within the range of my car the day I bought it, the $700 was a deal breaker, plain and simple and even then if I had the option, I would have passed - I just think repeated use would shorten the battery life and how long my battery pack lasts could mean buying this car was a mistake
. . .
I think if Mitsu had put one on every car (and upped the price of the car by even a couple hundred) it would have been a monumental mistake and I think they knew it when they designed the car.

Since you have an ES, you obviously paid extra for yours - Have you ever used it?

Last things first - no, I haven't used it, and not too sure I ever will. However, Albuquerque and Santa Fe are exactly the right distance apart for CHAdeMO to be useful, and both cities are intermittently green/techie when fashionable, so it's a real possibility (and yes, I'll grant, likely more real than in south MS) - unless, of course, the American mfrs. are successful in convincing authorities to boycott CHAdeMO and limit any L3 service plazas to J-1772-CCS. I don't think that very likely in New Mexico, but we'll see. In the end, I felt I'd regret having a use for L3 and not having it, more than I would regret buying it and never using it. To each their own.

As to cost, the "couple hundred" estimate is probably closer to the truth, and in the context of these cars' cost I don't see how that's a "monumental" anything, much less a mistake. The CHAdeMO hardware would add nothing like $700 worth of cost if installed on every car - don't forget, there's no internal charger, all the power management's in the CHAdeMO station, with primitive smarts on each side coordinating the current flow the charger slams at your battery (kind of the reverse of what goes on between the internal charger and the external L1/L2 EVSE).

I certainly don't expect that bundling CHAdeMO in all Japanese EVs would make it the U.S. standard, but it would hugely increase the odds of it being a supported standard during the lifetime of EVs now being purchased. Given the penetration of CHAdeMO in Japan, I'm not sure how soon they'll jump on the CCS bandwagon, especially since the Americans and Europeans did not agree on a standard plug (or to put it more charitably, agreed on two standard plugs).

Politics and competitive shenanigans aside, from a consumer perspective, CHAdeMO and J-1772-CCS are not like VHS and Beta (who wasted years on a mutually destructive "less than zero sum" game), because they're not opposed in the same way. CHAdeMO is what's available now, and CCS is (I think/hope) what we're going to do eventually. But I expect the Japanese to have the majority of BEVs on U.S. roads through at least 2014; if they were all CHAdeMO, that would help promote construction of L3 charging facilities, and those would in turn support CCS, building out infrastructure that would help all EVs. If most Japanese BEVs don't have CHAdeMO, this will limit the L3 build-out to the detriment of all concerned, and if that build-out's late enough, it could push CHAdeMO out of the U.S. before its time. This is why I'd encourage both Nissan and Mitsubishi to either 1) make CHAdeMO standard (or in Nissan's case at least make it available on the SV base trim as Mitsubishi has), or 2) stop offering CHAdeMO at all, since their lack of support makes it likely it won't be useful.

I've said it before, though perhaps not clearly enough - I absolutely agree that routine L3 charging is a bad idea, no matter what Mitsubishi says (and that does seem to vary depending on where you look for the answer). If that's the only way an EV can meet your overall transportation needs, then wait for better tech or buy something more suitable (e.g., Volt or C-MAX Energi). Given the sketchy economics, provisioning L3 power stations is a policy matter, one component of a general program of EV promotion if that's what a region wants to accomplish (as SoCal most definitely does). A sparse but well-planned network of L3 chargers could greatly increase the number of households that could get by with an EV as their only car, not because they'd facilitate longer commutes, but because they'd support infrequent day trips for which it would be impractical to arrange a rental. But to be very clear, for my own purposes, while I did want L3 capability as a CYA, I purchased my i-MiEV on the assumption that I would never charge it anywhere but my garage.