iMiev not selling well?

[Don]

We bought a 1993 Mitsubishi Expo LRV mini-mini van and drove it more than 100K with no issues at all until it was totaled by a drunk who hit it from behind. An all around excellent, high quality car IMO - We bought the iMiEV specifically because it was made by Mitsubishi due to our past experience with them. When it comes to recalls over the past 10 years or so, their record is much better than Toyota's

The company has been around for more than a hundred years. They make ships, (and the engines that power them) heavy duty trucks and many other things in addition to cars. The original Dodge mini-vans (as well as many other Chrysler/Plymouth small cars over the past 30 years or so) were a joint venture with Mitsubishi, rebadged as American cars. Many of the engines were made in Japan. Some history on their partnership is available here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond-Star_Motors They even built the WWII Japanese Zero fighter planes

I have every confidence in the company and the vehicles they build, so that doesn't worry me at all. They teamed up with the largest battery manufacturer in Japan and built a plant to manufacture EV batteries and I'm sure they are in the EV business to stay - I think the only thing in question at this point is what's going to happen to their north American EV sales . . . . Mitsubishi will still be selling lots of cars worldwide. No worry about them going out of business

Don

 

[Vike]

InsideEVs just published a very pessimistic article about the i-MiEV's future based on comments made by Mitsubishi Motors' president at the Sydney Auto Show. InsideEVs interpretation of the president's comments: “the i-MiEV is now on life-support, and we are just warning the family that the end is near.”

. . . I'm questioning the wisdom of buying a car from a much smaller car manufacturer whose sales may not reach that level, the i-MiEV.

Also, CNNMoney just posted a snarky, negative video review of a fully-loaded i-MiEV. I can agree with the reviewer that a $35,000 price for even a fully-loaded i-MiEV is difficult to justify.

Having read the full article (I'd encourage you all to do the same), I think the InsideEVs guys "interpreted" quite a bit to get to that "the end is near" conclusion, so that should be taken with more skepticism than alohart's expressing here. Regardless, I'd say two things about the prospects of the i-MiEV's early demise. First, that would make me even happier I got hold of one while it was available, though admittedly folks buying it on clearance (however many that might be) will do even better. Second, the non-EV i has sold quite well in Japan, so Mitsubishi should have no problem providing parts for our i-MiEVs, since most parts outside the drivetrain and the upsized North American body structure should be pretty much interchangeable, and the electrical components (apart from the batteries) should be the longest-lived bits of the car. I bought this car with my eyes open, and the fact is I don't value the Leaf's superior amenities as much as I value the i's superior engineering. I hope I can keep it running for its full useful life at a cost I can tolerate, but overall I'm glad I got the i instead of the Leaf, and I'm certainly much better off than with a homebrew EV. If Mitsu really does pull the plug [ahem], I think the ensuing fire sale might be the best tech bargain since HP's $99 liquidation of the TouchPad. Encourage geek friends with less-than-deep pockets to watch this space.

As for the CNNMoney review, yes, it is moronic, but it exposes two of my pet peeves about Mitsubishi's approach to i-MiEV marketing and PR.

First, equipment and features aside, the SE Premium interior (differing only in electronics gear from the SE) is as unimpressively "upgraded" as the ES is impressively frugal. The differences between the two (brown cloth and dashboard parts! silver colored plastic!) are laughable, so we shouldn't be too surprised when reviewers laugh. The ES can get by with its cheap and cheerful VW Bug vibe, but the SE really needs to look a lot better to justify its supposed "upmarket" positioning.

Second, I think Mitsubishi has blundered terribly by supplying the SE Premium to reviewers instead of the ES, a move I hope they'll correct (though I guess it's probably too late now). The ES's <$22k after-tax price point really makes a positive impression, while, after watching and reading over a dozen major reviews, I'd say it's pretty obvious that the SE Premium's troweled-on tech gear does not (I haven't actually heard anyone say "lipstick on a pig" yet, but that's the implication - and most reviews that mention the nav system do so mainly to direct well-deserved mockery at its "nearby gas stations" feature). Watch this CNN nincompoop's hatchet job again (if you can bear it) and note how much of it is focused on variations of "$35k for THIS??" This is pretty typical - over and over, reviewers note that "I can get a Leaf for a couple grand more," a statement that EV buyers who've shopped these cars carefully know is very misleading. "Well, dammit, that's what the sticker on this dinky golf cart says, compared to the price that Nissan advertises, so there you have it!" Umm, yeah - except I know that I would have had to spend over $7200 more to get what I wanted on a Leaf, though such nuances are lost on the sort of people that do two-minute reviews on YouTube.

So yeah, these are not encouraging posts. But they're not all that discouraging to me.

 

[sandange]

InsideEVs just published a very pessimistic article about the i-MiEV's future based on comments made by Mitsubishi Motors' president at the Sydney Auto Show. InsideEVs interpretation of the president's comments: “the i-MiEV is now on life-support, and we are just warning the family that the end is near.”

I hope this interpretation is wrong, but I've been wondering why we haven't read about any 2013 model plans by now and how long Mitsubishi, not a big player in the automobile market, would support the i-MiEV considering its very poor worldwide sales. Already the owner of a car whose total worldwide sales didn't reach 20,000 and whose parts are becoming expensive to buy, the original Honda Insight, I'm questioning the wisdom of buying a car from a much smaller car manufacturer whose sales may not reach that level, the i-MiEV.

Also, CNNMoney just posted a snarky, negative video review of a fully-loaded i-MiEV. I can agree with the reviewer that a $35,000 price for even a fully-loaded i-MiEV is difficult to justify.

Not a good day in the media for the i-MiEV

Last Thursday afternoon I attended the EV 2012 Ve Conference that was held here in Montreal, Quebec. The doors were opened to the public and I had the please of meeting and having a long conversation with

Mr. Patrick Renaud
Directeur regional des ventes (Regional Sales Director)
Mitsubishi Motors Sales of Canada

I specifically asked if I may share this information with our forum members and he very much agreed I should

I specifically brought up this matter of the I Miev being discontinued where he
assured me that this was a case of misinformation and that there are definitely plans for a 2013 model that will only be available much later in the year - probably in the spring.

I asked him about what changes were in the plans but of course he didn't give me very much, only hinted that a premium model is in the works but the model will stay basically the same.
I though it best to pass this on and assure all those here who are concerned.

As far as the Bad review we have all seen these before...
This morning I heard a great report on EV future facilites and charging station expansion on the CBC radio show " All In The Weekend"
The last two minutes they were praising the I Miev
http://www.cbc.ca/allinaweekend/2012/10/28/making-electric-vehicles-a-practical-choice/

Sandy

 

[tonymil]

Thank you for posting that audio. Very supportive of the MiEV.

 

[iMiEVNZ7]

Hi, Here in NZ, sales are still very slow, sort of a which came first, the recharging stations or the imiev !.

People here see the advantages of the car, but for many people, the range is too limited except for say to and from work, without there being some way to recharge at work or at friends' places. Our friends live 50 km away, and we see them for about 4 hours at a time so being able to recharge without the plug getting warm would be great.

With most indoor plugs in NZ being 10 amp 240 Volts 50 Hz, and the supplied lead and box with the imiev being only with a 15 amp plug, and testing showing a 240 volt , 2, 400 watt heater left on overnight plugged into a 10 amp socket gets it warm to the touch, not hot but warm, and testing showing the 9. 5 amps drawn from the same socket by the imiev, gets it warm also, we thought why not try ESVE upgrades, and asked them if we could get one made to run at between 7 and 8 amps and they said yes.

I have asked if the cord can be made longer as the 5 meters or about 15 ft is a bit short, ideally we would like 10 metres long, about 30 ft, and am awaiting a reply.

If we can sort this easily, then we will be buying a few imievs and new ESVE's too.

It is easy to get recharging here if we don't need the 15 amp plugs and sockets, but hard to find a 15 amp one except at boat and caravan places.

Rolling up to somewhere and asking nicely if we can borrow a power socket usually is answered with a yes, and people do worry if the socket gets warm, so I think if we set the box to 7 to 8 amps, we should be good. It will only add an hour or so to a full recharge I think.

For Caravan places where 15 amps is available, we will get a portable ESEV from Johnathon Corkam. I think our NZ imiev is set at a max of 12 amps Draw the Mitsi tech guy said.

 

[Brian]

I hope this interpretation is wrong, but I've been wondering why we haven't read about any 2013 model plans by now and how long Mitsubishi, not a big player in the automobile market, would support the i-MiEV considering its very poor worldwide sales. Already the owner of a car whose total worldwide sales didn't reach 20,000 and whose parts are becoming expensive to buy, the original Honda Insight, I'm questioning the wisdom of buying a car from a much smaller car manufacturer whose sales may not reach that level, the i-MiEV.
(

The number of "20,000" for world-wide sales was used. According to Wikipedia, since full production started in July 2009, over 28,000 i-MiEVs and rebadged versions have been produced as of August 2012. Even if sales are slow in North America, the sales in Asia and Europe are still encouraging.

We are early adopters. For as much as the masses complain about the price of oil and the price of gas, they are still reluctant to leave their comfort zone. Think about the early European settlers to North America. As much as the populations may have complained about their current government, it was easier for some to complain than to take the risk. Once the initial risk takers were able to establish a foothold, that lessened the resistance for those that followed. In a similar way, we owe a debt of gratitude to the 'Do-It-Yourselfers' who showed that it could be done. As more people receive encouraging feedback about EVs, the sales should gain momentum.

 

[alohart]

Already the owner of a car whose total worldwide sales didn't reach 20,000 and whose parts are becoming expensive to buy, the original Honda Insight, I'm questioning the wisdom of buying a car from a much smaller car manufacturer whose sales may not reach that level, the i-MiEV.

The number of "20,000" for world-wide sales was used.

Sorry if I wasn't clear that this "20,000" number was referring to my Honda Insight, not to the i-MiEV.

According to Wikipedia, since full production started in July 2009, over 28,000 i-MiEVs and rebadged versions have been produced as of August 2012. Even if sales are slow in North America, the sales in Asia and Europe are still encouraging.

While 28,000 have been produced, apparently only 18,000 have been sold leaving 10,000 on dealer lots. Only 519 of the unique U.S. versions have been sold through September, 2012. Because of this unsold inventory, Mitsubishi has (temporarily?) stopped building i's for PSA Peugeot Citroën.

Nissan is apparently poised to introduce a 2013 "decontented" "stripper" Leaf model that's produced in the U.S., so its price won't be so influenced by the strong Japanese yen. Mitsubishi sold very few U.S. i's despite the ES price being significantly lower than the base model Leaf. I don't see how Mitsubishi can up its sales pace against a Leaf that's priced closer to an ES unless it lowers its price which might result in Mitsubishi selling i's at a loss. Honda apparently did that with the original Insight just to get real-world hybrid experience. I hope Mitsubishi can afford to do something similar to get real-world EV experience in significant numbers.

 

[JoeS]

... I think Mitsubishi has blundered terribly by supplying the SE Premium to reviewers instead of the ES...

Vike, I agree with you and your supporting arguments. I also think Mitsubishi marketing made a serious mistake by not giving reviewers the basic ES to test. After all, the ES is indeed a 'complete' fully-functional iMiEV - it even has a heated driver's seat - but most importantly it is under the $30K price barrier which brings it down to the low-20s with various incentives. THAT would provide separation from the Leaf and all other mainstream EVs.

sandange, thank you for your posts including the photos from the Conference - that audio complimentary of the iMiEV nicely restates what we all know.

It really saddens me that we're not able to better sway people's perceptions - after all, we KNOW what a great little car we have that so admirably could satisfy the daily driving needs of the majority.

 

[archie_b]

Ebay currently has 4 i-MiEVs for sale; 1 used private seller and 3 new (demo) from dealers. Two of the three new are being offered at $5,000 below dealer invoice ($25,138 ES and $29,165 SE) before the Federal tax credit. With the tax credit the ES would be $17,638. Both of these cars are located in VA.

Currently there are no bids on any of the 4 cars. The private seller i has been offered for sale for a long time and has not sold.

 

[archie_b]

October USA sales figures have been released:

Volt: 2,961

Leaf: 1,579

i: 30

 

[tonymil]

I went to a car show today in Albany. The only all-electric cars I saw were the Coda and the MiEV - and the MiEV was horribly displayed. 2012 ES model, all black, no decals and no signs stating all-electric. It's like they're not even trying.

 

[jray3]

With the ZOE coming out at a price of $21850 in Europe plus a battery lease for $78/month, who would buy an i/CZero? 65 Kw motor, more range than a LEAF, and fast charging!
http://www.renault-ze.com/en-gb/electric-motoring/z.e.-test-43997.html
Now this is marketing! Watch and learn, Mitsubishi/Citroen!

 

[Don]

I wouldn't pay $22K for any EV if it came with a $78 per month battery lease. Driving such a car here in the USA would cost me more than driving a 35 MPG, $15K economy car. I drive less than 10,000 miles per year and that $78 would buy my gas, while the EV driver still has to buy his electricity on top of the $78

Maybe it makes more sense in Europe where gas is significantly more expensive . . . . could be that's why they're offering it there and not here

Don

 

[jray3]

Okay, that pricing was after govt incentives, bringing it on par with the i for initial purchase, though a car with more power and amenities. Paying for the battery pack at another $78 per month would be another $2808 over a 3 year battery lease, and that's only good for 18,000 miles! Not such a deal. The fancy website doesn't even show the back seat or how the rear doors open.

 

[alohart]

I wouldn't pay $22K for any EV if it came with a $78 per month battery lease.

Don't forget that these prices include 20% VAT. Without the VAT, the car would cost ~$18K with the monthly battery lease being ~$65, so these are the costs that should be compared with the costs of other EV's in the U.S. This might or might not be attractive to many people, but I give credit to Renault for trying to deal with 2 serious deterrents to the sales of EV's in the U.S.: high initial cost and fear of the high future cost of battery pack replacement.

And look at the range of EV's that Renault plans to sell. It's too bad that Renault doesn't operate in the U.S. Here in Europe, Renault seem to be fairly popular in the countries that I've visited. I think they're much-improved, especially now with their alliance with Nissan and sharing a common CEO who is bullish on EV's.

 

[statik]

InsideEVs just published a very pessimistic article about the i-MiEV's future based on comments made by Mitsubishi Motors' president at the Sydney Auto Show. InsideEVs interpretation of the president's comments: “the i-MiEV is now on life-support, and we are just warning the family that the end is near.”

I hope this interpretation is wrong, but I've been wondering why we haven't read about any 2013 model plans by now and how long Mitsubishi, not a big player in the automobile market, would support the i-MiEV considering its very poor worldwide sales. Already the owner of a car whose total worldwide sales didn't reach 20,000 and whose parts are becoming expensive to buy, the original Honda Insight, I'm questioning the wisdom of buying a car from a much smaller car manufacturer whose sales may not reach that level, the i-MiEV.

Also, CNNMoney just posted a snarky, negative video review of a fully-loaded i-MiEV. I can agree with the reviewer that a $35,000 price for even a fully-loaded i-MiEV is difficult to justify.

Not a good day in the media for the i-MiEV

Was not happy to publish out this article this morning, but it is what it is. Mitsubishi is going to let the i-MiEV die off. They are refocusing their US lineup and will feature the Outlander PHEV. The i-MiEV may be in it last model year offering here in 2013. Mitsu also noted that the Mirage EV is unlikely to come here.

Mitsubishi: No “Next Gen” For i-MiEV. Will Focus On PHEVs In US Market
http://insideevs.com/mitsubishi-no-next-gen-for-i-miev-will-focus-on-phevs/

 

[fjpod]

I'm happy to have my Miev in NYC these days...with all the gas lines and all. The price is inconsequential. Nobody can siphon gas out of my car. And if the power is off, I have an ICE car. Talk about disaster planning...

 

[alohart]

Mitsubishi is going to let the i-MiEV die off. … The i-MiEV may be in it last model year offering here in 2013.

I can't say that this is surprising considering how slow i-MiEV sales have been in the U.S. and apparently in the rest of the world. I've recently looked at the i-MiEV inventories of several Mitsubishi dealers in hopes of finding a new i-MiEV at a good discount. Based on the numbers of unsold i-MiEV's at my small sample of U.S. dealers, the U.S. sales history, and a published report that about 1/3 of all i-MiEV's produced remain unsold worldwide, I question whether there will actually be a 2013 model. It appears that there are enough unsold 2012 i-MiEV's to satisfy demand through 2013 unless prices are drastically discounted. And even if unsold i-MiEV's were offered at a substantial discount, are there really that many people in the U.S. who would jump at the opportunity to buy a discontinued car that has sold only around 500 to date?

For several weeks, I have been talking to a Mitsubishi dealer about purchasing a new i-MiEV. He had no ES models, so I asked him for his best price on a basic SE with no options. He offered to sell me a white SE for $29,465 + sales tax and registration and license fees. That seemed like a pretty good price although I would have preferred a similar discount off an ES. I did not commit to buy that SE because I was still uncertain about the cost of installing an electrical circuit in my condo parking stall. Last week, it appeared that I would be able to have electricity installed at an affordable price, so I told the dealer that I wanted to buy the white SE. He told me that he had just sold it and offered me instead an SE with the $300 white/blue paint option for $29,130 + tax and fees, and a black or raspberry SE for $28,830 + tax and fees. So why did the price on his lowest priced SE drop $635 in two weeks? Might he have been told by Mitsubishi that it would soon become public knowledge that the i-MiEV would be discontinued, so sell your remaining inventory of i-MiEV's at very attractive prices as soon as possible?

I believe that if Mitsubishi remains in the U.S. market as its president says it plans to do, it must, by law, offer replacement parts for up to 10 years (2022 for the i-MiEV?). But if it follows Suzuki out of the U.S. market, who would honor i-MiEV warranties and from where would i-MiEV parts be purchased? Even with Mitsubishi remaining in the U.S. market, i-MiEV parts will almost certainly become fairly expensive special order items only that could take weeks to arrive at the Honolulu dealer unless I were willing to pay for expensive air freight.

The North American i-MiEV is and apparently will remain a very rare car. Would that mean that it would become nearly worthless or a prized rare car in the future? It being basically a low-end econobox with an expensive battery pack, I lean toward the former.

On Saturday via email before I read this news, I committed to buying the white/blue SE when I return to Honolulu at the end of December. Now I'm wondering whether that is a wise decision. I could back out of my commitment if I do so immediately based on this new information. What would you do if you were interested in buying an i-MiEV and just learned that it will be discontinued with so few ever having been sold?

 

[fjpod]

Unless a company spokesperson comes on here, anything said is mere speculation. I think EVs are here to stay. I think only the ones produced by major auto manufacturer's like Mitsubishi Motors, Nissan, Ford, GM have a chance to survive. I think the start-ups like Tesla will fail or get bought out by another manufacturer. But this is all my speculative opinion.

 

[danpatgal]

Ugh, that's disappointing, but not all that surprising, I agree. Perhaps we'll see some fire sale prices on the iMiev and that's not all bad for people looking to get into a new EV. For those, like me, who made a leap of faith at considerable cost, we'll just have to hang on and hope that we have no big troubles and that Mitsubishi will continue to service them faithfully.