PREPARATION FOR COLD SEASONS

I used to get the fuel gauge down once every blue moon and then to recharge to the rim. Heating and A/C were my friends. It got really hot in the car. That was before insulating but the car sitting.

After insulating it gets hot even faster and when moving.

Oh, Karin and me have been dreaming of a tiled stove or masonry heater in our i-MiEV. We have actually visited caravan shops and collected information about heaters but imagine a hole and a lid to fill in smelling fuel into our i-MiEV?

Well, it is November and last night we had 7 Celsius below freezing, 19 Fahrenheit. Until March we have time to change our mind again but if we dont have a heater by March we shall survive another winter without fuel but we might try insulating the roof and maybe the windows when charging in the wild.

Our 2012 i-MiEV does not have heating while charging but I have begun building a box that will split the power to our electric oven and the charger allowing us to reduce power to the charger so we can use weaker sockets or heat while charging. Kind of an EVSE.

But for range extension, replacing DC-DC converter and Lead Acid with a decent lithium battery might gain us some 2 bars particularly in winter.

Cheers
Peter and Karin

A couple of comments for Driving in snow and prep for winter.
I have already got to drive the Miev in snow. I tried to do a fish tail when I did a right hand turn onto a snowy main street. But the Miev wouldn’t let me fish tail. I felt like I slammed into a wall as the Miev lined me up perfectly with the road. My passenger wife screamed for a second because she thought we were going to slide into the other lane. But nothing happened. And I drove on my way.

For the cold, I (we) haven’t been using any heater. We’ve been fine at 20F outside.
In the Idaho winter, my wife and I wear a very thin long underwear all day (see Terramar Helix 1.0 series). This allows us to keep our house at 62F during the day and 57F at night. This makes for a nice low gas-heating bill. In the car, I wear an 8oz down coat, down boots (North Face Nuptse II), thick flexible padded gloves, and a hat. And we’ve been comfortable. When we stop at the grocery store and park our car, our body is not shocked by the cold, upon opening our doors, since we’re already bundled up.

We don’t even feel the down coat on us since it’s so light. The nice thing about down is--- when it gets colder, the down puffs up more--- which keeps you warmer. This only works on certain coat designs.

When the window fogs up, I’ve been shocked how fast our defroster works! It’s usually cleared off in 15 seconds. And then I turn it off.

Now this next comment is not part of prep for winter, but I am so impressed with the headlights. I was driving my Prius in front of my wife--- who’s driving the Miev. The Miev headlights don’ even bother me; I don’t have to flip my rear view mirror to night vision. They look like little tiny lights (from 50ft in front). I wonder how it can light up anything? Those are amazing Miev lights. They’re the brightest lights of all our vehicles. It appears all the light is made to hit the road with some side spill. It’s a very nice design.

Anyway, I can’t wait for some 0F weather to try out this EV in.

-Barry

jray3 said:

Don said:

After 18 months of ownership, I *wish* I could speak that complimentarily about the car's heating system - We never feel what I would call 'warmth' no matter how we have the controls set. It's the one major disappointment to EV ownership in my eyes, and it doesn't even get really cold down here.

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Don, I fear there's something amiss with your i, as I have no qualms saying that the car can get downright toasty! I'm in the school building management business and my custodians are not allowed to submit a cold room complaint without actual thermometer readings included, so here goes; measurements via Fluke 568 with thermocouple, not IR.

After parking for 80 minutes in 37 degree ambient air, my heater restarted at 50 degrees F, no air recirculation. Within 3 minutes, discharge air was 104 degrees. I then set it to recirculate and discharge air temp hit 121 degrees two minutes later, so I stopped the test. That should be warm in anyone's book.

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I took the liberty of moving the temperature-related posts from the Range Anxiety thread to this one, because I wanted to make sure that jray3's temperature measurements would be found in the future. (I added the boldface)

I also concur with jray3 about the iMiEV's temperature adequacy, at least for my temperate climate which has average lows about 10degF lower than Biloxi (without the humidity). Don, your heated air low temperature and window fogging just doesn't seem right ...

Barry, thank you for your insight regarding living/driving in cold weather. Wow, what a different life y'all lead in cold country (and I'm thinking especially of our Northern friends) With the money you save on home heating you can buy the fanciest thermal gear going! The iMiEV's ASC really does keep the car in line, even if it is somewhat overly-enthusiastic when going around corners on rough dry pavement.

Don said:

After 18 months of ownership, I *wish* I could speak that complimentarily about the car's heating system - We never feel what I would call 'warmth' no matter how we have the controls set. It's the one major disappointment to EV ownership in my eyes, and it doesn't even get really cold down here. I honestly wonder how you guys in colder northern climes manage to live with it)

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Don,
I think your experience is linked to the climate in MS (as Joe suggested). You have lots of rain and moisture. Try to run heat on low and turn on A/C at the same time with air recirculation off. It may sound like the best advice to drain the battery quickly but you really need to remove moisture to avoid window fogging.
Good luck, Stan

If we preheat the car using L2 before we leave, the car remains pretty comfortable (and well defogged) for the duration of our trip and the energy usage doesn't seem much more the running the A/C in the summertime

But, if we don't preheat the car and get in it cold and then turn on the heater, we never get what I would call 'comfy' at any point during the trip . . . . despite the RR numbers sinking like a stone

I'm still contemplating purchasing the diesel powered heater

Don

As long as we are all relating stories about heater use, I find I don't have to use mine often here in NYC. When I am driving in good sunlight, I don't need it. If it's damp and rainy, and the windows are fogging, I often find I can get away with no heat or AC, just the lowest fan speed setting blowing on the windshield (temp control on the green dot). We don't get sustained cold with ice very often, and when we do, I am probably not out in my car.

I had the opportunity to do a little test the other morning. It was cold (just under 30F) and the car was plugged in. I had a full charge overnight. Typically (virtually always), when I drive from my home to the Verrazano Bridge, I lose the first pip while driving (without CC) about half way up the incline side of the bridge (probably about 5 miles from my home). That morning, I did a pre-heat while plugged into L1 for about 20 minutes. I lost the first pip (again, without CC) about one mile short of my usual mark

So, what we all have talked about before, that using the pre-heat especially while on L1,... does use some battery capacity.

jaraczs said:

Try to run heat on low and turn on A/C at the same time with air recirculation off. It may sound like the best advice to drain the battery quickly but you really need to remove moisture to avoid window fogging.
Good luck, Stan

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We used that technique a good bit last winter, Stan - It does the best job of defogging of everything we tried. Unless you can get it pretty warm inside the car, you've pretty much got to keep pumping outside air into the car to keep the fog off the windows

As to the climate here - We're spoiled, no doubt. We're reaching for long sleeved shirts and sweaters anytime the temps dip below 70 degrees because we feel like it's freezing

But - Biloxi's typical 'winter dress' seems to be a ski jacket with a pair of shorts and flip-flops :lol: More people wear that combo here in December and January than anything else it seems. Go figure

Don

We are seeing sub-zero temps here in the Niagara Region this week. I'm getting more adept at using the HVAC controls in my i-MiEV this year, versus last years experiment. After pre-heating and driving off, I turn on the recirculation to keep the heat in the car longer. If the windows start to fog, a little bit of fan helps to clear that off. Then I switch it off. I also finished my heated floor project this weekend. I put a heated seat pad (waterproof model) below the carpet and above some reflective insulation that I added. Now my feet are nice and toasty, no more frozen feet. I may buy a larger pad as the model I bought is meant for a motorcycle seat. But, right now its perfect.

Hey, everybody. I was going to post something here, but it got REALLY long winded. So, I created my own thread called "My first winter in my Meepster... so far!"

BarryP said:

my wife and I wear a very thin long underwear all day (see Terramar Helix 1.0 series). This allows us to keep our house at 62F during the day and 57F at night. This makes for a nice low gas-heating bill. In the car, I wear an 8oz down coat, down boots (North Face Nuptse II), thick flexible padded gloves, and a hat. And we’ve been comfortable. When we stop at the grocery store and park our car, our body is not shocked by the cold, upon opening our doors, since we’re already bundled up.

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That's the best and free of charge winter range extender We use it constantly.

An update for those who are awaiting more information on installation of combustion heater (parking heater):
Due to repeated problems with interconnection of the heater with the iMiEV system, I have re-wired the system so that it is operated independently of vehicle's climate controls. The added benefit is that my RR readings are more reliable, the heater can be operated without fan (preheating the heater itself) and it can be programmed to do so automatically. Also, I can utilize the residual heat after the heater had been turned off by operating the vehicle's water pump to circulate the warm fluid.
Since I want to capture everything in my report, this re-wiring has delayed completion of it.
To give you a feel of my experince with it, here is a list of pros and cons:

PROS:
1) Extended range due to not using energy for heating (more consistent range across the seasons).
2) Extended range due to battery pack warming although it is not as effective as it could be (optional - available only in vehicles with QC port and/or Winter package and requires additional modification, OBD-BlueTooth transponder, Android device, Canion).
3) Improved cabin comfort & percieved more Btu.
4) Less driver's distraction (no more juggling with climate controls to minimize power use while keeping windows defogged).
5) Energy saving ($).
6) Ability to setup preheating with mini-timer.
7) Fuel flexibility - ethanol for exhaust odor control.
8) No vehicle body drilling required and if you decide to go back, the modification is 99% reversible.
9) Utilization of residual heat.

CONS:
1) Offensive exhaust odor when using diesel fuel (only at the beginning and end, edited 1/4/2013) - no preheat in the garage.
2) Noise - always at the beginning, later depending on heating needs (lower heating stage is much quieter). You can fool people by saying you have genset turbine. At speeds above ~40 MPH, it does not really matter, though.
3) Light vibrations at full power.
4) High cost of ethanol ($22.5 per Gal from Woodland Direct).
5) Fire hazard from having flammable/combustible liquid in the front trunk.
6) 2-3 minute delay in heating onset vs. PTC heater. Yet, it is comparable to ICE cars.
7) Non-trivial installation procedure, some skills are required. Installation in series with PTC heater would be maybe more complicated, though.

Stan

feet warmers, grin with wireless controls, so ideal to be able to easily turn off at work.

http://www.gizmag.com/thermacell-heated-insoles-review/29943/ note that it appears they are not super hot, only to normal room temp feeling.

I've ordered a couple of battery powered electric vests (one for my brother and one for my father) as early Christmas presents. They each drive an iMiEV and getting back the range used by the heater would be great.

I'll report back after they have used them for a while.

Yeah, mine handles real well in snow...but how cold was it?

I understand charging is diminished in real cold weather as the battery cannot take it. And if you are charging on 120 volts, you are likely losing some charge from pre-heating. Some other info would be informative, like how old is the car and how many miles on it?

Last night, I got my first chance to drive my Meepster in the snow. We got about 3" last night, and my wife sent me out to pick up pizza for dinner right in the thick of it. The city had not yet gotten around to plowing and salting the ancillary roads I take to the pizza place. So, it was definitely some slick and slippery conditions. HOWEVER, I couldn't get my i-MiEV to slip, slide, or lose traction for the life of me. And I TRIED! I could certainly hear all the clicking and buzzing and feel the vibrations the Meepster was making via the traction control system, but she kept me straight and true the whole time.

Whatever some folks may say the i-MiEV lacks in size, looks, and refinements, it MORE than makes up for it in traction control, stability, and handling!!!

I've been waiting for decent conditions (or rather pretty bad roads) to try out the traction control. I've finally had a few chances. Once was backing up my snow-covered concrete driveway. It slipped a little, but the brake force distribution kept it to only moving a few inches side to side while easily making it up to the top. I also hit an icy road on Saturday on the way to the dealer. I got regen to slip the back just a little when slowing down for a deer. Just barely felt the slide, but didn't need to stop. This morning, my road was packed slush, turned ASC off and punched it. Barely spun . Amazing how well the car holds the road.

On level 1, preheating will bring down charge. Another thing to watch for is the battery warming system. I'm pretty sure mine kicked on the other night. It was below 10 degrees F, and after 5 hours to regain less than half a charge, it was still charging in the morning on level 2, 13 amps. One other time it stopped charging at 99% without preheating.

The temperatures here in NJ have been down to 23F (-5C) recently and yesterday, when the first snow fell, it was around 32F (0C). I could not resist and have taken it for a ride to test the ASC system again (this is my second winter with iMiEV). Sure enough, I was pleased, just like all of you guys. Although I did not make crazy things with it, we have to beware that the ASC is not almighty.

Also, I have been testing my new heater. I found that when I use diesel in it, it is so powerfull that it runs in low power mode most of the time and yet it keeps everyone in the car toasty if not roasty. Forget about fogging. And it does not smoke as much as I was initially concerned. Occassionally, I warm up the battery as well so, the range does not suffer as much. I can turn off the heating 5-10 minutes before reaching my destination and keep circulating the hot liquid to get the last bit of the heat into my cabin. This all with just 24 oz (0.71L) bottle of diesel that provides heat for 2 hours. The heater replacement was my best modification, yet.
Stan

Hey Stan

Sounds like you are livin the dream.... a no compromise ev in the winter YEE HAW......


Keep singing the praises and gloating because it will motivate us to step up and install a heater also.


Don.......

Some more thoughts (from my previous post on this thread): I used/tried the electric seat heater in the Fall. It’s warm. But I found my wife and I haven’t used it at all this Winter (-5F to 30F). And we don’t use the heater--- just the defroster for a few minutes at a time. A couple more theories why we’re staying butt warm:
1. Thin long underwear is a good enough insulator.
2. My wife put egg-shaped packing foam on the front seats (3” thick) and put a towel cover over that; mainly to add some extra-soft padding and for easy cleaning maintenance. It appears a side benefit is a heat-reflective seat.

Again, we enjoy our 8oz down coats. No electric vest needed. They’re warm in the car and I don’t sweat (in them) in the department store. If it hits 0F we add another 8oz fleece jacket underneath.

Fyi,
-Barry