skyemoor said:
You have a very firm, one-sided position on this topic which pits one kind of plug-in driver against another, and dismiss any ideas about how to improve the situation for both.
Well, no. Not even slightly. A firm, one-sided position would sound like this:
RabidBevExtremist said:
Since PHEVs have ICE powerplants on board, there is no reason at all for them to be tying up public chargers, inflicting who knows what inconvenience on BEV drivers stranded and waiting for access to a charger. Come on guys - charge at home, and then run on gas when your battery's down, something which is NOT an option for BEVs. Stop being a dog in the manger.
Now by contrast, for those (including skyemoor apparently) disinclined to follow a link and a lengthy argument, let me just cut to my summation from that plugincars discussion:
vike1108@plugincars said:
I can see now that I made a mistake in assuming that pricing would address the issue, because there are green-minded PHEV drivers like JT who are willing to pay more per mile to avoid burning gasoline. Given that PHEVs typically have much shorter EV ranges, such drivers will likely spend more time on public chargers than BEV drivers with similar driving patterns.
What I'd like everyone to do is think hard about how all this will "scale out" if EVs sell in increasing numbers, as I'm sure we all hope. It will help if everybody refrains from public charging unless it's really needed. For PHEVs, as noted earlier, I think that means that public chargers should be avoided if the planned itinerary will LIKELY be completed gas-free with the current state of charge. For BEVs, it means that public chargers should not be used when on an itinerary that is CERTAIN to be completed with the current SOC (a different standard, but I hope it's a difference we can all understand). PHEVs have every right to use public chargers and should be encouraged to do so if it's to avoid a certainty of burning gasoline; denying them this right is to treat them as "second class EVs" in exactly the way JT criticizes.
But BEVs also have a right to plan trips that depend on the use of public charging infrastructure, even if this means occasionally interrupting PHEV charging sessions to avoid unreasonable delays. JT seems unwilling to grant this point when he says "The fact that I chose to buy a vehicle with a gas range extender and you chose to buy one without does not give you any more right to a public charge station than I," but I think he needs to understand that failing to do so is to relegate BEVs to the same "second class" status he objects to for PHEVs; expecting a little deference on access to chargers (by both PHEVs and those BEVs that have a reasonable option of charging at home) may be the only way such longer trips could even be considered.
To me, that's the essence of it. See the difference between that and RabidBevExtremist above? No? Try reading it a few more times - I'm sure it will eventually become clear.
I do agree that it would be swell to avoid scarcity and rudeness and inconvenience, but it's not clear to me how to accomplish that any time soon. A reservation system is marginally practical at best, a tedious solution ideal for wonks and enthusiasts that will be of no interest whatever to the wider motoring public, so we're back to the basic point - how CAN this scale out? Sure, I fully support efforts to build out charging infrastructure and manage it for the maximum benefit of ALL varieties of EV - but what do we do in the meantime with the current scarcity? We can discuss pleasantries and plans about the wonderful world of the future where there's an overabundance of well-maintained Level 2 chargers at every shopping center, but my comments on this topic have mainly been focused on how to operate in the world we have right now, not the one we'd rather have. And in the current world, as has been noted elsewhere here, local-range EVs are best suited to use cases where they are almost always charged at home. When they need to "stretch" a bit for a trip across a big city or over to the next town, they absolutely need to charge on the road, and it isn't even close to reasonable for them to wait for a vehicle with a fully functional ICE to top off its useful but non-essential batteries just so its driver can polish his green credentials.
Put another way, the stakes for one driver are "Now I have to stop at one of the fifteen gas stations along my route and won't be as green as I'd hoped," and the stakes for the other are "Now I have to choose between waiting for hours for this reserved/occupied charger to free up or calling in a flatbed to take me home at hideous expense." It's unrealistic and ultimately unfair to argue that both parties have equal "rights" to charger access while completely disregarding the huge difference in consequences.
As for this rantlet:
skyemoor said:
This discussion is discouraging me from buying an iMiEV for the upcoming new car purchase for our other car. If range anxiety coupled with a disdain for PHEV owners is a side effect from a short range , then I would want an EV with greater range to avoid the heartburn and griping. With the suggestion that charge prices equal gas costs, that would push me to . . . want another PHEV, not [a BEV].
. . . first off, I'd point out that the only meaningful step up in range for a BEV is a Te$la, not an option for most of us.
As for buying another PHEV if public charging isn't cheap enough, that sure sounds like home charging a local-range BEV won't meet your day-to-day needs, in which case, yes, something like a Volt would be a better fit. I think Volts make a lot of sense as second cars, especially when you already have a relatively capacious and efficient highway trekker like a Prius (the PiP kicks the Volt's butt on road trips, with scads more passenger and cargo space and way better MPG).
Much as it pains me to say it, it also sounds like raising the cost of public charging is a VERY good idea. Otherwise, you're suggesting you'd be motivated to hook up your Volt or PiP to public chargers to save a few bucks, and so deny that essential resource to BEVs that actually need it. And that pretty much proves the point of all those who have argued here for public chargers being priced to discourage abuse.
