Signs the USA might be waking up to the MiEV?

[acensor]

I got three acquaintances seriously interested in shopping for a 2014.
Our local dealer is unenthused about selling them and has none on his lot or in his pipeline so was a dead end to send them there. This is despite the fact that he has 5 employees owning anddriving them who love them. I understand, sort of, his position. Says he makes only $500 on selling one, and it sits on his lot a long time (at least that was true in 2012) and he has cash tied up in them that he can use for other cars that turn over faster.

Anyway, since I purchased mine back in early 2013 from a dealer in San Rafael California and had it shipped up to Oregon, I did some footwork for these folks to find some options like that for them, with some success.

The interesting thing is this FWIW:
When I today rechecked availability I found out some interesting nuances:
MiEV's are in short supply in part because they are selling better.
Mitsubishi likely put only a modest amount of the 2014’s into the USA, possibly because of slow 2012 sales,
but they sold out pretty fast in some places.
The Dealer in Eugene Oregon told me they sold all 2014’s they had and have a waiting list and are trying to get some from dealers down in California to ship them up north to them as some as they have a waiting list of serious prospects.

 

[archie_b]

Alex:

I'm sorry but I have to disagree that the MiEV is awaking in the USA. In the 4 months since the 2014 MiEV has been available less than 100 (94 to be exact) have sold. This is less than 24 MiEVs a month. Compared to the same period in 2013 55% less MiEVs have been sold (206 versus 94). This is also about 50% less than those sold during 2012 (185 versus 94).

I do agree that MiEVs are in short supply. Checking Autotrader.com I found 58 MiEVs available nationwide. Combined this with the 94 sold in the last 4 months and the total is 152, which is an extremely modest amount. To put into perceptive Mitsubishi has 14,105 2014-2015 new cars listed on Autotrader.com. The 58 MiEVs represent less than .5% of that total. Mitsubishi has about 500 dealerships in the USA which means many dealers have never seen a 2014 MiEV on their lot. I'm sure there may be more MiEVs available than those listed on Autotrader.com, but I'm equally sure the numbers are still very small.

It is hard to awaken interest in a car when the manufacturer is asleep in advertising and making the car available.

Archie

 

[Don]

I disagree as well

I don't think the USA is ever going to warm up to EV's so long as we have $3 gasoline. It won't last forever. We really, really need to add another 50 cents or so to the national gas tax so we have the money needed for extensive road and bridge upgrades - That money pot is currently empty and our infrastructure is aged and crumbling rapidly

Once we see everyday gas prices in the $4.50 to $5 range, EV's will become a lot more popular in a hurry, but until then, I just don't seem them catching on with the general public. A 40 mpg econo-box burning $3 gas is actually cheaper to run, long term, than even our very efficient iMiEV's - When we look back after 100K or so and factor in the cost of a replacement battery pack to the overall cost of operating the car, the 40 mpg ICE's overall costs would be hard to beat, especially considering the car cost about 1/2 of what the iMiEV did initially

Don

 

[acensor]

I disagree as well

I don't think the USA is ever going to warm up to EV's so long as we have $3 gasoline. It won't last forever. We really, really need to add another 50 cents or so to the national gas tax so we have the money needed for extensive road and bridge upgrades - That money pot is currently empty and our infrastructure is aged and crumbling rapidly

Once we see everyday gas prices in the $4.50 to $5 range, EV's will become a lot more popular in a hurry,

Don

I agree that if gas prices AT THE PUMP were significantly higher the whole market picture would change.

The sad thing is that in the USA the real price of gas is much higher than $5 and camouflaged by myriad direct and indirect costs associated with maintaining our oil economy. How much are you actually paying for gas? Take a closer look at the hidden bills footed by your taxes:
The federal government subsidizes the oil industry with numerous tax breaks and government protection programs worth billions of dollars annually. These benefits are designed to ensure that domestic oil companies can compete with international producers and that gasoline remains cheap for American consumers.

If Exxon had to float it's own navy to protect it's tankers how much do you think gasoline in the USA would cost?
You and I pay for that proportion of the navy that's dedicated to protecting those tankers and our access to the countries that export oil.
If there was no oil in Iraq what's the chance we would have spent and are still paying billions as a result of getting involved in what most people finally if in some cases belatedly agree was a catastrophic war there?

Google
real cost of gasoline
And you'll find some real eyeopeners on the many hidden costs taken out of our back pockets while we're at the pump thinking we're paying only $3.50 per gallon.

This is just one of dozens of sites covering this:
http://www.treehugger.com/fossil-fuels/true-cost-gasoline-closer-15-gallon-video.html

Depending on which economist's analysis you trust most say we in the USA are actually paying somewhere between about $10 and $20 per gallon for gas. We just don't see it coming directly out of our pocket at the pump.
If drivers saw that at the pump we'd have three year waiting lists for EV's and other alternative fuel vehicles and we would have to keep our i-cars under high security against theft.

What about those Europeans, we feel sorry for, paying anywhere between $6 and $10 more per gallon. Think they're getting the short end of the stick?
They pay about the same for crude oil on the open market as the USA but do NOT take on the major job of protecting the oil supply lines and get a free ride on the US navy, etc. So they could, as we do, sell at the pump for about $4 per gallon without hidden costs..
But they put heavy taxes on gasoline, and funnel that money into building infrastructure, etc.
So who are the suckers now? ;-)

 

[danpatgal]

I was also skeptical of acensor's assertion, because sales numbers have been so low. BUT, looking into it a little, there is a lot of truth to it since MY 2014 iMievs are in short supply. On Autotrader, there are only 9 available within 500 miles of me (yes, I'm on the East Coast - but that 500 miles includes the metropolitan areas from DC to Boston!). Nationwide the number is only 32! It's hard to sell a car when you don't have them to try out nor if people have the impression the vehicle will become a stranded step-child of a minor car player in the US. Mitsubishi has (battery?) supply issues, and I'd guess that they are trying to prioritize on a more profitable and potentially marketable product for the US ... the PHEV Outlander. Not that I really like that form of a vehicle, I know lots of US customers who do - so I can't disagree with that business decision.

 

[jray3]

What about those Europeans, we feel sorry for, paying anywhere between $6 and $10 more per gallon. Think they're getting the short end of the stick?

And to append Alex, 80% of that 'reflagged' Persian Gulf crude winds up in other OECD countries rather than the USA (primarily Europe) though it's our Navy protecting it...
http://www.marcon.com/marcon2c.cfm?SectionListsID=93&PageID=771

Regardless of long term high European oil prices, they aren't adopting EVs en masse, except when large ownership subsidies are offered (Norway and for a while, the Netherlands). Look at France- they have no significant domestic oil production, yet oil provides 1/3 of their energy and EV sales are still less than 1% of the market!
http://www.eia.gov/countries/country-data.cfm?fips=fr
http://cleantechnica.com/2014/03/16/norway-ev-market-share-vs-france-ev-market-share-chart/

 

[dniemeyer99]

EV adoption is happening. We need to be patient and help it along as we can. Talk to friends and family. Tell them the advantages of having them. Try to get your local community to install QC station etc.

EV's are a complete sea change in the way people have been educated and therefore they do not understand the positive consequences of EV ownership. As I am sure everyone here that owns an EV knows.

Also, there is a large vested interest (i.e oil companies and well as car maker) to keep the status quo running smoothly. They use peoples fear of change to keep them from buying this new technology. (i.e Not enough range, to expensive)

People just need to understand that the best way to energy independence is renewables. And that if we take a risk as a country and well as personally, we can achieve this goal globally, nationally as well as personally.

I do not see this movement and that is if you want to say it is a movement as saving a couple thousand dollars per year for every family but rather freeing our society from the control of the elite. He who controls the energy controls the world. And if we all can create and use the energy, (ie PV cells, wind, EV's) than we all control the world not just the elite. Somehow this seems more democratic. We will not have to send our son and daughters to fight a war over oil. If the land is dry, we can use the energy to divert or desalinize water. Remember, renewables energy goal is to be cheaper than coal. And they are very close in achieving this goal.

The key drivers for this technology will be EV adoption. I believe this is because people that own EV's very quickly understand this connection and therefore choose not to go back to using internal combustion engines. As more and more take the what they think of as a risk, more and more will make this connection.

EV adoption may seems slow in NA and Europe but it has not stopped. It is growing, we just have to wait for it.

Dave

 

[OldGeek]

@acensor,

Funny thing. We bought our iMiev in June this year. My local dealer in Fort Collins Colorado found a dealer in Oregon that wanted to offload their in-stock iMiev. My dealer traded for it and had it shipped here.

I wonder if this was the same dealer you were working with?...

 

[acensor]

@acensor,

Funny thing. We bought our iMiev in June this year. My local dealer in Fort Collins Colorado found a dealer in Oregon that wanted to offload their in-stock iMiev. My dealer traded for it and had it shipped here.

I wonder if this was the same dealer you were working with?...

Note... Wasn't from my local Medford Oregon Mistubishi dealer . For 2014 he never stocked ANY.

Interesting .... Some ...a few...Mitsubishi dealers can and want to sell these off the lot as fast as they can get them. There's one dealer in Eugene Oregon who's trying to buy as many as he can trade or buy from dealers elsewhere ..got a waiting list of serious and/or firm buyers.
Others are lukewarm.
And my dealer as I implied , doesn't want to touch them.
I think he's missing understanding the opportunity:
Ashland, 12 mile away, is FULL of tree-huggers....Flooded with Priuses (Priusi?), and increasing numbers of Smart EVs. With just minimal promotion he could , I'm sure , quickly sell all the MiEVs he could have gotten in. Virtually and of those folks local who purchased Smart EV would've jumped at a MiEV at ~$6000 less and numerous obvious advantages.

 

[offgridQLD]

Once we see everyday gas prices in the $4.50 to $5 range, EV's will become a lot more popular in a hurry

In Australia we already have $6 pr gallon gas and all EV's are struggling to sell. Mitsubishi don't even stock the Imiev anymore as no one was purchasing it.

Personally I feel it would have to get to $10 a gallon In Au for people to switch to EV's just based on the price of fuel. Peoples eyes just glaze over when you tell them about EV's. Driving gas guzzling cars and handing over $100 bills each week is so ingrained into people its like they cant see the light.

I enjoy driving my Imiev and part of me hopes EV don't become mainstream as its kind of nice flying under the radar at the moment . One they are main stream a lot of the cost benefits will be sucked away in some kind of EV tax or the like.

Kurt

 

[acensor]

Hi Kurt,

Well, like I suggested, if we, including Aussies, were paying the real full costs of fuel out-of-pocket at the pump it would already be at $10 or more.

Yeah, there would be downsides to EV's going mainstream (such as arriving at that charging station and finding someone pulled in just ahead of you.) But some real pluses in economies of scale, third parties selling replacement batteries at half or 1/3rd the cost of what Mitsubhish wants.... third party R&D firms working feverishly to get to market with lighter, cheaper, higher capacity, or faster-charging batteries, etc.

Alex

 

[user 1835]

Ashland, 12 mile away, is FULL of tree-huggers....Flooded with Priuses (Priusi?), and increasing numbers of Smart EVs. With just minimal promotion he could , I'm sure , quickly sell all the MiEVs he could have gotten in. Virtually and of those folks local who purchased Smart EV would've jumped at a MiEV at ~$6000 less and numerous obvious advantages.

The Smart ED generally comes with $3000 off, and in my case $4000 off MSRP.
Frankly, here in Canada, the MiEV is $4000 more than the Smart ED...

Anyway, to say a Smart ED owner like me would have chosen the MiEV is nowhere near the truth, and if you asked many ED owners, they might say the same thing.

The distinctive style, panoramic roof and smaller size of the Smart ED were part of the reason I bought.

I see many times on this forum suggestions the MiEV is superior to Smart ED, but I just don't see that, for me, they are two great little electric cars, but both deserve to sell on their merits, and not be compared.

The Smart ED sold 133 copies in Ontario (mostly Toronto) in a single month (Aug 2014) due to a $100/mo lease ($1800 down). That is a record for pure electric vehicle sales in a single month ever in Canada, and the ED is now effectively sold out and waiting on future 2015 model shipments. There is something to be said for the selling power of this litle car when it is priced right.

 

[acensor]

The Smart ED generally comes with $30 00 off, and in my case $4000 off MSRP.
Frankly, here in Canada, the MiEV is $4000 more than the Smart ED...

Anyway, to say a Smart ED owner like me would have chosen the MiEV is nowhere near the truth, and if you asked many ED owners, they might say the same thing........

The distinctive style, panoramic roof and smaller size of the Smart ED were part of the reason I bought.......

I see many times on this forum suggestions the MiEV is superior to Smart ED, but I just don't see that, for me, they are two great little electric cars, but both deserve to sell on their merits, and not be compared.

.....There is something to be said for the selling power of this litle car when it is priced right.

I am glad to see Smart EVs driving around our town and am confident most of the owners are happy with them. I expect, or at least hope , that their visibility may raise awareness about the EV practicality...rather than result in EVs being seen in the minds of some EVs as "little electric urban vehicles that would never suit my needs."

I stand in part corrected, and slightly modify my statement to "I am confident that MANY of those who purchased and are about to purchase Smart EVs from our nearby Mercedes dealer would have purchased MiEV's from our nearby Mitsubishi dealer if they had ever heard of them and if MiEVs were available to test drive and purchase ... Particularly after they discovered that here the MiEV would cost them several thousand dollars less.

I recently let two prospective EV buyers for whom the Smart and the Spark were on their short list drive my MiEV and both are now going thru the extra difficultly of getting an MiEV purchased and shipped from a distant dealer.

Bottom line and my main point remains is that I believe that in my town , which is a prime EV buyer market, that our local Mitsubishi dealer has created a self fulfilling prophecy with his attitude ("these cars don't sell well enough to carry") ....of course not helped at all by Mitsubishi's nonexistent marketing, poor USA supply, etc.

In your situation where the Smart , to my surprise, is priced lower than the MiEV , I can see why even in a face to face comparison one might consider it.

I disagree that they should not be compared. When there are only a handful of models of EVs available in the USA from manufacturers with real support and sales networks, and maybe three that effectively can go out the door under $30,000 , it would be prudent for any serous EV buyer or even curious shopper to carefully compare them.

So in doing that comparison......
As for IMO why members here suggest the MiEV is a smarter choice that the Smart for us and most:
I can't rate "distinctive style" as a plus or minus as the MiEV too has a distinctive style ..and that is a strictly personal subjective , not objective factor.
I can see if you live in a city where parking is very very difficult that the Smart's short length could be a significant plus.
I have not driven a Smart but see multiple credible reports and reviews indicating it is not well suited for high speed driving and has some handling issues outside of city driving.
Google
smart car unstable at high speed .
These reports are not too surprising with the short wheelbase aft to front and the very short left to right wheelbase. In contrast My MiEV is rock solid in feel at its top end 80mph speed on those rare occasions on the freeway when i choose to pass a truck or whatever, and doesn't waver at all from side wind blast if a truck passes by me on the freeway if I chose to dawdle at 55 in the slow lane.
And of course the MiEV wins hands down if you imagine you'd EVER want to carry even three people, let alone three people and significant cargo , four people plus cargo, or just significant bulky cargo.
Considering that anyone getting any EV is incurring the risks of new technology and new manufacturing experience, the fact that MiEVs have been on the road longer in far larger numbers than the smart or any other EV (~45,000 on the road way back in 2006)...
...see Annual production and sales table at http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_i ...
is a big plus in suggesting that an MiEV buyer is less likely to find out three years from now that he/she has unintentionally been used as a beta-tester to reveal unknown design or reliability issues .

 

[Cacti]

In Massachusetts they began a rebate program in June 2014 for BEV and currently the Smart has a total of 30 that have been processed for the $2500.00 rebate. The Mitsubishi i-MiEV has a total of 2. I personally prefer the i-MiEV because of its larger size but the Smart has many vehicles listed in this program.

Cacti

 

[offgridQLD]

In contrast My MiEV is rock solid in feel at its top end 80mph speed on those rare occasions on the freeway when i choose to pass a truck or whatever, and doesn't waver at all from side wind blast if a truck passes by me on the freeway if I chose to dawdle at 55 in the slow lane

I wouldn't say the Imiev is rock solid at 80mph :? When a double B truck passes by me or I overtake one in the imiev the massive wave of air being shoved out of the way by the 50 ton truck feels like it's first going to suck the imiev into it and as I or it passes it feels like spit it off the road. Lots of tugging and shoving going on.

It's drivable on the freeway and I often taken ours on it at 60 - 70mph for reasonable distances and most times its reasonably comfortable and relaxed. Though windy conditions or lots larger cars ,4wds or truck passing by its defiantly two hands on the steering wheel at all times :shock: .

Its no 7 series BMW on the freeway

 

[jsantala]

Luckily here in northern Europe trucks are limited by law and a limiter to 50 mph, in actuality they can reach 55 mph. So they're pretty much perfect for tailing. With a safe distance, of course.

 

[Don]

The Smart ED sold 133 copies in Ontario (mostly Toronto) in a single month (Aug 2014) due to a $100/mo lease ($1800 down). That is a record for pure electric vehicle sales in a single month ever in Canada, and the ED is now effectively sold out and waiting on future 2015 model shipments. There is something to be said for the selling power of this litle car when it is priced right.

'Sold out' or . . . . 'leased out'?? I'm guessing there probably is some way you could say a leased car is actually 'sold' though the title doesn't actually transfer to the lessee like it does when a car is actually 'bought.' The financing company lends the vehicle to you for a period of time, usually about three years, and you return the vehicle to the real owner when the lease expires. I would never say I 'bought' a car if I leased one . . . . it's a completely different decision

Yes, if you could somehow wrangle lease payments of only $100 per month, pretty much any make or model car at any price point could be 'sold' (even new Yugo's I suspect) but in reality, that just can't be done without considerable help from the government. This lease deal is only possible because of the Ontario $8500 credit and it does make for an incredible deal - You drive for about 15 cents per mile, plus electricity. As one reviewer simply put it "Smart economics: If you must get a Fortwo electric car, lease it"

Don

 

[user 1835]

"Smart economics: If you must get a Fortwo electric car, lease it"

I bought mine, paid $19,300 total all-in. I plan on owning it for as long as it will run. Absolutely love this car.

I couldn't see leasing an EV, as I personally could not stomach a repeat of "who killed the electric car".

The lease deal is stunning, but in 10 years, I will still have my fun and quick Smart ED, even if it gets driven less and less often when there is a Tesla in the driveway (don't we all want one?).

Cheers to MiEV owners, I've only seen one here in Toronto area, but I see Smart ED's routinely...