Signing paperwork for my new i tonight!

[RobbW]

IMO, you're getting ahead of yourself on all of this. Since you can recharge at work, in all probability you may never need L2 charging at home . . . . and if it turns out you might, why not stick with the dryer extension cord and your Upgraded EVSE for the time being until you've had the car a few months and see how things work out and what's really necessary in your particular case? Charging at work, you'll leave there everyday with it full up and it will likely seldom be low enough that 12 amp L1 recharging won't get it full again overnight at home. Hold your horses, get your EVSE Upgraded and maybe make a DIY dryer extension cord and just go from there

Don, I appreciate the input. I was compiling my latest post at the same time as you. So, I was not able to incorporate your points into my response. As you can see, I decided to go ahead and just buy an L2 EVSE. While my wife and I had already decided last night/this morning to get an L2 charger, the impetus behind my quick purchase of said L2 EVSE was the fact that it appears my special access to plug in at work may have been rescinded (Most likely due to office politics. One director is sore that another director overstepped what he considered to be his territory.). I decided to just forget it and eliminate any worries or wish-washiness on the L2 decision.

If the airport ultimately decides to let me plug in at work then great. But at least I will know I should be at full capacity every morning now. This will be especially comforting once the seasons change and it starts getting much colder around here.

 

[RobbW]

That you cannot do - Breaker sizing is based on the wire size more so than the load and you cannot put a 50 amp breaker on a wire installed in your wall which is only rated for 40 amps

Thanks again. I've also asked my contractor to let me know if it will be necessary to fish heavier-gauge wire through the conduit in order to accommodate a larger breaker. Even doing that will still be less expensive and more convenient than the more involved options we were looking at. I will leave the decision up to him whether it is within code or even a good idea. If he decides he'd rather not go that route, then I will just use the L2 and an extension cord from the dryer outlet until we decide on one of the more involved options.

 

[JoeS]

... I had taken a VERY brief look at ESVEUpgrade.com after rjay3 had suggested it. Yowzer, that is an expensive upgrade! What do they do for all that money if they are simply modding your existing OEM cable?

Robb, I think you forgot that you were no longer negotiating with the dealer and led us to believe that you were indeed trying to get charging as inexpensively as possible, which is why we tried to help based on our collective experience. For myself, even with 50-60 mile days I rarely use my L2 EVSE and even though I have the EVSEUpgraded Mitsu EVSE I still set it for the original 8A and charge using 120vac.

I just re-read your first post and I see that you really do have a painless 16 mile commute to work ... heck, even with no charging at work by the time you get home after 38 miles your fuel gauge should be at exactly 8 bars (i.e., half) in the summer if you drive properly.

As far as charging at work, you'll be happy you have it in winter, as the battery consumption by the heater is significant (aircon does not seem to take a big bite out of the battery). Be sure to offer to pay for your electricity use (900W x 8hrs) = 7.2kWh ... actually, for that short a commute I think your charger will normally shut off after about 4 hours (thus, 3.6kWh). Now that I think about it, you might NOT want to charge at work in order to avoid fully fully charging the battery evey day.

All the best to you and enjoy your new toy!

 

[RobbW]

Thanks, JoeS. Sorry if I confused everyone with what has been going on. This has all happened so fast that situation seems to be changing on an almost hourly basis! A perfect example of that is when I was leaving work today, I was officially informed that there would be no plugging in a work. So, that's that. No charging safety net at work.

Jeez, you would think goverment agencies would be the most likely to embrace greener technology to reduce costs. Go figure!

 

[randy3]

Thanks, JoeS. Sorry if I confused everyone with what has been going on. This has all happened so fast that situation seems to be changing on an almost hourly basis! A perfect example of that is when I was leaving work today, I was officially informed that there would be no plugging in a work. So, that's that. No charging safety net at work.

Jeez, you would think goverment agencies would be the most likely to embrace greener technology to reduce costs. Go figure!

Not being allowed to charge at work is very common. I'm a retired federal government employee who worked at a government building with 120v already located at parking spaces. My request to charge at work was met with, "We'd need to change the law to allow you to charge because we'd be giving you something we don't give all employees. It would, literally, take an act of Congress to let you charge at work." My brother in law is going through similar gyrations trying to get permission to plug in at a major hospital facility.

IMHO, we need more L2 installed everywhere and then we need them set up so we pay a little something to use them (so we don't look like we're asking for some free electrons).

 

[PV1]

Change the law? I'd tell them to take the $10 worth of electricity (if that) out of my paycheck every week (or month). :| :roll:

I talked to our COO just before I got my car, and he said I can charge as long as I buy him a coffee. :lol: :mrgreen:

I just drove 55 miles today, and it will require 12-15 hours to hit full, which I will need as much charge as I can get for tomorrow. I'm on the stock Mitsubishi cord, and have been for nearly all of my 3,300 miles. I only use level 2 at public charging stations while at my friend's solar business (Zero Emissions!!) or in the big city.

Robb, at the least, you should have the 12 amp, 120 VAC cord upgrade. I find my driving to use 12 bars at 45 mph and under on fairly level roads without HVAC for a 60 mile drive. With the news that destination charging is off the table, I'd say good call on the level 2 charging station.

 

[RobbW]

My request to charge at work was met with, "We'd need to change the law to allow you to charge because we'd be giving you something we don't give all employees."

Randy, that is almost exactly word-for-word the line I was given as to why they won't allow me to plug in at work. The director said that if other employees saw me plugged in they would get jealous and start asking why they don't get a free tank of gas every month or so.

Robb, at the least, you should have the 12 amp, 120 VAC cord upgrade. I find my driving to use 12 bars at 45 mph and under on fairly level roads without HVAC for a 60 mile drive. With the news that destination charging is off the table, I'd say good call on the level 2 charging station.

Yep, PV1. I still plan on doing the EVSE upgrade at some point and keep the cable in my i. It will be nice to have the option of either 120V or 240V charging when I roam!

 

[camiev]

Buy a generator and put it at work.
You will be charging using your own generator.
They just need to cooperate to provide you the storage space.
It will be better for your battery too. And it will make sure you wont have "range anxiety" when stuck in traffic or run many errands.

 

[RobbW]

Buy a generator and put it at work.
You will be charging using your own generator.
They just need to cooperate to provide you the storage space.
It will be better for your battery too. And it will make sure you wont have "range anxiety" when stuck in traffic or run many errands.

Yeah, but then I'm using gas to power my i. I'd like to avoid that if possible. Is there such a thing as a portable PV solar-powered EVSE? Sort of like a PV mat you can unfold and put in your window or on top of your car that connects to your car's charger? That would be ideal, but I'm not aware of such a thing for EVs. I know they have them for charging your smartphones, tablets, and i devices.

Also, my wife was asking last night about using solar power at home to charge the i. That way, we would be truly zero emission. Where would I go for more info on that option?

 

[HParkEV]

Buy a generator and put it at work.
You will be charging using your own generator.
They just need to cooperate to provide you the storage space.
It will be better for your battery too. And it will make sure you wont have "range anxiety" when stuck in traffic or run many errands.

That's a very poor use of resources, plus generators pollute a lot more than ICE cars because they lack emissions controls.
It would be far more effective to buy a Prius-c in this case, and put the generator fuel into your gas tank instead. In Canada, the Prius-c and the i-MiEV are priced about the same after all incentives are figured in.
I have done a rough calculation of the efficiency of running a 4kW generator at 240V for 7 hours to do a full recharge, versus the fuel use of a Prius-c to run it for 62+ miles - the Prius comes out way ahead, at least 30% better.

 

[HParkEV]

...
Is there such a thing as a portable PV solar-powered EVSE? Sort of like a PV mat you can unfold and put in your window or on top of your car that connects to your car's charger? That would be ideal, but I'm not aware of such a thing for EVs. I know they have them for charging your smartphones, tablets, and i devices.

Also, my wife was asking last night about using solar power at home to charge the i. That way, we would be truly zero emission. Where would I go for more info on that option?

You'd need to carry a lot of panels with you... Just to give you an idea, to get 1000 Watts (stock Mitsu L1 EVSE power level) out of solar panels in full sunlight, you'd need at least 4 commercial-duty panels that are about 3 feet by 5 feet in size. That does not even take into account that you'd loose at least 15% of that power at the inverter which you'd need to plug the EVSE into this solar setup. Realistically, you'd need a lot more solar panels in order to be able to even L1 charge reliably when it gets cloudy. Unfortunately a portable solar setup is completely unrealistic with current technology.

 

[RobbW]

Thanks, HParkEV. I was just wondering. This is something I have never had to consider before in my life. So, I am not up on the current technologies, or lack thereof.

 

[MLucas]

The director said that if other employees saw me plugged in they would get jealous and start asking why they don't get a free tank of gas every month or so.

I hate that argument because everyone IS getting a free tank of gas or more every month. Gas in the US is subsidized by the federal government. Do people ever wonder why we are not paying $8.00 a gallon like they do in Europe or even $6.00 a gallon like we do in Canada? http://www.progress.org/2003/energy22.htm


Anyway, on this topic of mid-day charging. You may want to make a dry run on a weekend before you actually plan to use your i-MiEV to see how well the car will do for your commute. If you have anywhere between 4 and 6 bars left over after your dry run - you'll be fine summer and winter. Anything lower than 4 bars and you'll want to seek out mid-day charging. You may have to see if there is another place to park.

I too work for a federal agency and we can't even get telework authorized for our office, which would save us plenty on commuting cost. I learned about greed in the private sector and I learned about waste in the public sector. Ugh.

I'm thinking you just need to get through this phase and see how the car does. There are many techniques to get more range out of your car, there are plenty of threads on this forum that discuss these techniques. The best is to just slow down, plan your breaking way ahead and learn some hypermiling techniques. You'll be amazed at how far you can go with the little i. Most people can easilly get 70 to 75 miles out of the car with a little bit of forethought.

 

[JoeS]

Might re-read RobbW's first post: he only has a 16-mile drive to work and a 38-mile overall daily commute. No problem at all. Don't forget, 150-200miles/day is readily doable in the iMiEV with opportunity charging! Check out this thread: Maximum Miles Driven in One Day

RobbW - we discussed portable solar charging on this thread: Solar on the Car Roof

Many of us have solar at home - my electric cars simply speeded up the amortization of my 6.6kW installation in my all-electric house, so now all my driving is free. :roll:

 

[danpatgal]

Nice thread - its' fun for some of us who've gone through all this to share and relive the excitement.

... if they also state that if they had their druthers they would prefer an L2 charger, then by golly I want an L2 charger!

I agree. I'd add that L2 is nice for the unusual circumstances, weekend outings, etc. that are near impossible with the ~ 900w input on the L1 EVSE. Sure you can make your normal commute on L1, but going to a slightly farther point or running an unexpected errand during the day is easier to do with L2 and > 3000w power input.

Hence my thoughts on piggybacking off the dryer circuit. It would be the quickest way to do it, and we could have it done in about an hour or so.

If you never run the two at once, as you've said, it's no problem. If the circuit is 40 amps and the dryer runs max 23 amps, then you could push over the 80% rule (32 amps) if you charge them simultaneously so to be compliant with code I'd guess there'd need to be some switch so that you can't run both at the same time. If that's cost prohibitive, you could piggyback on it but limit the dryer manually (use the 2nd highest setting - which I think is more efficient anyway, though it takes longer) so you'll not pull more than 32 amps.

I can use the L2 on a 240 extension cable plugged into the dryer unit until we finally get an outlet installed in the garage.

That's okay, but I think you're quickly tire of this because of just moving cords around. But, it's not a bad idea to start and as you use the car you'll get a better feel for where you want a permanent outlet.

Your electrician can advise what is best; which is to say, if you ever have any doubt about something you're doing, it's best to get professional advice instead of risking a fire or electrocution. I had two 240v outlets with 30/50amp breakers (and therefore 12/10ga wire) installed by an electrician at our house for less than $300 (including materials), so it doesn't have to be expensive. I did a third outlet myself for a few hours of my time and about $70 in materials (I had a 30ft run of 10ga cable, 40amp breaker, and the outlet + plug in that instance).

 

[Vike]

If you're now looking at a proper L2 charger, you might want to consider Bosch's new Power Max line. $450 for a 16A Level 2 (a bit more for 30A), undercutting most suppliers by a healthy margin, and Bosch is a respectable purveyor of electrical appliances. I know they're pretty new - anyone have experience with these?

UPDATE: I see we have started a separate topic about the Bosch Power Max EVSE, so probably best to put any info/replies there:
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1669

I wouldn't spend a lot to get to 50A service if that cost can be avoided, though if you're really looking at a panel upgrade, you're probably going $1k+ anyway. One thing I don't think anyone's discussed is upgrading service to your house to cover all this - adding capacity you don't need may be needlessly problematic if your utility company perceives it as getting too close to capacity in your neighborhood. It depends on how they have equipment configured - if I'd insisted on a 30A EVSE instead of the 16A I settled for (more than the i-MiEV can use anyway), my power company indicated they might want/need to upgrade some of their components at my expense.

 

[Don]

Also, my wife was asking last night about using solar power at home to charge the i. That way, we would be truly zero emission. Where would I go for more info on that option?

Yes, that can be done . . . . on several levels. The biggest problem you'll run into there though is timing. The sun shines brightly allowing you to make the most power during the exact same hours you are NOT at home recharging your car, so if you want to go solar and recharge at night, you've got to find some way to store the energy you make in the daytime so you can use it later when you need it - Adding enough storage batteries to do that ups the price so much it's just not practical

One solution is a large set of panels on your roof which connect to an inverter system which is tied to the grid - You make juice during the day which runs your electric meter backwards (in effect 'selling' it back to the utility company) so that you can then run your meter forward during the hours you need the juice, effectively buying it back from the utility company. Depending on the scale you choose and who installs it, such a system can be done for . . . . more than you paid for your car - Possibly a LOT more than you paid for your car

A more practical approach if what you really want is to just make enough juice to power your car is to install a solar water heating system. Using the sun to heat domestic water instead of using electricity (or some other fossil fuel) can save you enough electricity to power your car . . . . and make you essentially as 'green' as if you had enough solar panels on your carport to charge the car. I installed such a system with a 40 sq foot collector and it saves me about $40 to $50 per month. It provides ALL of our hot water for about 10 months each year and a sizeable portion of it the other two months

Don

 

[RobbW]

A more practical approach if what you really want is to just make enough juice to power your car is to install a solar water heating system. Using the sun to heat domestic water instead of using electricity (or some other fossil fuel) can save you enough electricity to power your car . . . . and make you essentially as 'green' as if you had enough solar panels on your carport to charge the car. I installed such a system with a 40 sq foot collector and it saves me about $40 to $50 per month. It provides ALL of our hot water for about 10 months each year and a sizeable portion of it the other two months

That sounds interesting to me, Don. Do you have any readily available links with information I can look into? Of course, I can Google it later when I have more time, but if you have some good sites you consider extremely helpful, I would love to get those. Thanks.

 

[aarond12]

I'm guessing installing a dedicated 240V line is NOT a DIY project?!

Not unless you've had experience working with high voltages. I installed my own line from the panel, but I've also been doing electrical work for many years. It's not like you're installing a Tesla coil or something -- it's pretty straight-forward. Understanding the different phases that 220V/240V can enter US homes is of utmost importance.

 

[Don]

I think anyone could buy the parts at Lowes or Home Depot and run the wire, install the box, wire up the socket and then pay an electrician to hook up the other end of the wires in the panel. Leave your socket out of the box so he can see that you have that end terminated properly and you should have a pretty small bill. Probably just his minimum charge for a home service call

Like many other home DIY projects, you can find pretty much everything you need to know on the Internet

Don