Need a longer range ev

[DougC]

I'm leaning Bolt. May end up going Volt unless I can get a decent deal on a Bolt.

I just bought a neat little cedar challet that will be my retirement place. That's why the need for 100 mile range. Once I recover financially from the closing I will make a decision on the car. Maybe end of year if they do the typical sales on new cars. This area has so many GM employees and family who get discounts that the dealers have deals that almost offset the depreciation hit you take off the lot on a new car.

I just saw a 2017 Volt premier lease I could take over for $231 a month 1000 miles a month. Might look into that to see how I like the Volt. That would take me out another 2years where I might be able to get a used Bolt. The miles are low but it might work for me.

What kind of range does the Bolt get at 80-85 mph? That's the typical highway speed here on Friday afternoon on my route to the cottage.

 

[DougC]

A local dealer has a 2013 Volt with 75k miles for $10,300. My co-worker has a relative that works there so I'm going to see if there is any friends of family discounts

I made the mistake of buying the MIEV without the remote FOB. Other than the car key fobs, is there any extra pieces I need to make sure come with the car?

Thoughts on the price?

 

[jray3]

Congrats Doug- I'm not aware of any accessories to the Volt other than the L1 EVSE. According to their owners forum, the Gen 1 volts use their regular key fob for remote start, but also have an OnStar app.

Are you going to have a garage for that car? If not, I'd lean towards a used one. Besides, Volt batteries should last a lot longer than any pure EV and the car will retain near full utility with a degraded battery, just at lower economy and possibly slower acceleration as the pack gets saggy.

 

[pbui19]

I would try to find out if there is any near future plan for DCFC installation along your route, as well as to consider your time frame. I don't know how near retirement you are, but your driving need would change.

We have an 2014 iMiev, '16 Volt, and a '17 Bolt; totally now over 100K electric miles. Joes introduced me to the iMiev back in 2013. We, except my wife, have been very happy with the Bolt for long distance trip. My wife does not want to be bothered to stop to charge, though she regularly does pit-stops. So she prefers the Volt on those trips. But the Bolt is working for the rest of us on those long trips because of the DCFC infrastructure in California; and more is coming in the next two months along hwy 5 between San Jose & LA.

I am in the market for an used 75D/85D, and almost pulled the trigger last week with a 85S, 56Kmiles, $35K. But I prefer an AWD.

It's a rather personal call, and there are some unknowns (driving needs, charging stations...). Personally, I would go with a Bolt with DCFC. Rumor has it that the 2019 Bolt has target-charge-termination.

Good luck,

 

[Don]

I really like the idea of driving pure EV's . . . . wherever and whenever practical. Our two iMiEV's have been the best things we've purchased in a long time. The wife loves hers and that's largely because in more than 6 years, she's never had the slightest bit of 'range anxiety' - I keep it charged (not fully, but to the point I want) and she gets in it and drives, wherever she wants and she's never had to worry about not making it home - She tells me where shes headed and asks if she has the juice to make the trip

When we wanted a longer range car, we thought (briefly) about a used Tesla like Joe's and a Bolt, but not everywhere do you find recharging networks like you have along the west coast - In fact, pretty much nowhere else do you find that level of support. Joe has driven his Tesla coast to coast several times and has published his 'recharging adventures' for all of us to read and while you do meet the nicest people when arranging to refuel your EV, those pauses are not for everyone and I know my wife would not take well to the adventure . . . . and to be truthful, many times it would not be my cup of tea either - Many times, you'd be forced to make allowances and it wouldn't always be convenient

So, after evaluating our travel needs, we bought the '17 Volt Premier and so far, it's been the best of both worlds for us. We drive electrically most of the time - up to around 70 miles sometimes - and we recharge when and where it's convenient . . . . and not when we're forced to. When it's not convenient, we get by with near 50 mpg until we can recharge without the hassle

Different horses for different courses - A lot depends on where you live and where you want to travel. One day, quick, hassle-free recharging will be available everywhere - Will it be affordable . . . . cheaper than gas at 50 mpg? Who knows and who knows when it will be. In the meantime, you pick what you can live with - What works for someone else may not be 'right' for you

Don

 

[jray3]

Long-timers here are familiar with my affectation for Pusher Trailers. The latest iteration is now running, and I hope to post some driving reports early in the new year.
http://karmanneclectric.blogspot.com/2018/12/even-rangy-ier.html
No, I'm not taking it on our annual 2500 mile Christmas road trip! HowEVer, driving an i-MiEV around that small town has really brought my dad out of his shell. He's hanging around the community center coffee shop for opportunity charging while in-between mom's various appointments. Making new friends and running into old ones...

 

[ChrisEV]

The i-MIEV has become our primary car, 99% of the driving we do is within its range and I use our van for those rare long trips.
My wife hates stopping to charge for a long time so I'm not sure if a long range EV is in our future based on what's on the market now. The upcoming Model Y seems to be the best fit, as Superchargers are more plentiful than Chademo/CCS chargers and faster too.
The Bolt is pretty nice but it seems slow to charge and that's even worse in winter where DC charging rate is cut in half.
And since we get charged based on time instead of kWh roadtrips here in Canada can be very expensive and slow.

 

[rmay635703]

The i-MIEV has become our primary car, 99% of the driving we do is within its range and I use our van for those rare long trips.
My wife hates stopping to charge for a long time so I'm not sure if a long range EV is in our future based on what's on the market now. The upcoming Model Y seems to be the best fit, as Superchargers are more plentiful than Chademo/CCS chargers and faster too.
The Bolt is pretty nice but it seems slow to charge and that's even worse in winter where DC charging rate is cut in half.
And since we get charged based on time instead of kWh roadtrips here in Canada can be very expensive and slow.

Your usage pattern sounds similar to mine

For a long time 99% of my daily driving was in a 1981 Comutacar and I always had a gas car like the original Honda Insight for road trips.

My recommendation is that if your concerned about operating cost and convenience you should consider a PHEV.

I typically only have one car for all my drives now that I have a Volt.

What kind of PHEV you get depends on what the distance of the majority of your daily driver activities will be couple with the percentage of long distance travel where charging is unlikely
You also need to be aware of heating needs which most PHEVs cover

A simple case of minimizing overall cost, if you have a lot of 2000-4000 mile trips like I do the Prius Prime or Original Honda Insight is best on cost, if you have fewer trips like that but many trips beyond 35 miles but less than about 80 miles the Volt is your friend

In my area the places I take vacation to do not have infrastructure meaning any BEV is going to have a lot of range anxiety, even normal 500 mile “day trips” up north in a Bev would require a lot of planning and likely an extra day on the trip due to the fact I would have to go out of my way and not be able to drive where I want.

 

[JoeS]

Even though I agree that for this use-case (lovely chalet, BTW) a Volt would certainly be suitable and a most cost-effective selection, I can't let this comment pass unchallenged -

...In my area the places I take vacation to do not have infrastructure meaning any BEV is going to have a lot of range anxiety, even normal 500 mile “day trips” up north in a Bev would require a lot of planning and likely an extra day on the trip due to the fact I would have to go out of my way and not be able to drive where I want.

Oooh, I'll bite. Whereabouts in the US or the southern end of most of Canada's provinces do we not have SuperChargers, DCFC/J1772, or NEMA 14-50 readily available?

Agree, would take a wee bit of planning.

As an aside, a couple of months ago a former co-worker took his Tesla S85 from here to Arkansas (to deliver some family heirlooms) and had no problem doing 750-mile days. I loaned him my spare tire for the trip and was gobsmacked when he returned so quickly (compared to my usual meanderings).

PS I also loved my Gen1 Insight.

 

[Don]

Joe,

I do recall on your first cross country trip in your Tesla you recounting many unorthodox charging adventures, and i know that made a big impression on me. If a Tesla driver with free access to the Supercharger network sometimes must resort to charging at a boatyard or a welding shop, what chance would a guy driving anything else have to find hassle free charging on a long trip?

True, you meet the nicest people when searching for charging opportunities, but thats not the sort of 'adventure' everyone would be comfortable with

Your adventures had a great deal to do with our decision to buy a Volt

Don

 

[rmay635703]

Even though I agree that for this use-case (lovely chalet, BTW) a Volt would certainly be suitable and a most cost-effective selection, I can't let this comment pass
Agree, would take a wee bit of planning.

PS I also loved my Gen1 Insight.

I would have posted a supercharger map of my area but this site seems to be stuck in 1995, no image tech.

In any event I’m in mid central Wisconsin, tend to travel due north on 51 and follow the lakeshore of Lake Superior up to Presque Isle and copper harbor.

I never travel south except due to road access issues, traveling across the Peninsula takes a great deal of time (n/s)

I have always owned an EV and have considered a Bolt but even then I would still have a road trip car in the stable because about 10 of the trips I make a year would be “inconvenient “ at best.

That said if I’m using the Volt, I opportunity charge whenever possible, I have to carry a cheater since half the hotels I stay at lack a working ground.


On my trip to the Grand Canyon (driving at high speeds the whole way) the Volts small gas tank was frustrating and charging opportunities were few during the journey
One hotel owner saw me Jerry rig from the top floor down and told me he had to remove all outside outlets because of homeless vagrants blocking parking to access juice.
He was interested in how he might offer charging without risk as no hotels in the area offered EV friendly charging for the same reasons.

Ah well

 

[JoeS]

...In any event I’m in mid central Wisconsin, tend to travel due north on 51 and follow the lakeshore of Lake Superior up to Presque Isle and copper harbor....
One hotel owner saw me Jerry rig from the top floor down and told me he had to remove all outside outlets because of homeless vagrants blocking parking to access juice.
He was interested in how he might offer charging without risk as no hotels in the area offered EV friendly charging for the same reasons...

rmay635703, ya got me, and you've done me one better by dropping a cord out of a hotel top story (all I've done is stuffed power cords out ground-floor bathroom windows to the car outside).

Even a Tesla round trip to Copper Harbor from the Wausau Supercharger in one day would be tough and may not even compute, especially taking your longer route. A year ago we had contemplated a visit to that lovely part of the country (highly recommended to us) before our meetup with Ben Nelson in Madison, but at that point it would have meant a couple-of-day detour for us. For example, Copper Harbor itself has a 14-50 at the Fort Wilkins State Park (per the RVParky app), so recharging once you get there coupled with an overnight stay shouldn't be a problem. Besides, there are plenty of campgrounds and J1772 along the way but that 500-mile-day without DCFC is elusive. In addition to the Tesla, a Bolt with its 32A charger might just make it... need to do the math.

That hotel owner should contact Tesla, which has been massively seeding their wall chargers across the country and, as I understand it, also throw in J1772 in some places as well. A 240vac Tesla-->J1772 adapter works great (I have one for my i-MiEV) and gives a car like the Bolt full 32A power.

Don, it's been 2-1/2 years since we took our first cross-country Tesla trip to Key West across the barren Texas stretches which at that time were devoid of Superchargers from Phoenix all the way to Houston. A lot has changed since then and nowadays Interstate 10 is very well covered and Electrify America is on a roll putting in DCFC across the country. Love my CHAdeMO adapter for the Tesla. Anyway, where there's a will there's a way, and all it takes is a bit of time and planning and a few backup schemes... after all, this is a very low-risk 'adventure'. Don't forget, the name of the game is to avoid fossil fuel.

Meanwhile, back on topic, DougC did you end up buying a Volt? For an acceptable price we have the upcoming long-range Hyundai Kona EV, Kia Nero EV, and the Kia Soul EV (with a huge battery update) on the horizon. I recently drove a Jaguar i-Pace, but it's not my cup of tea.

 

[PV1]

What kind of range does the Bolt get at 80-85 mph? That's the typical highway speed here on Friday afternoon on my route to the cottage.

While I can't say what the range is at those speeds, at 71 MPH, I did a 170 mile highway jaunt with about 45 miles left on a 100% charge (I've never gone lower than 20 miles remaining range as 0 miles looks like the shutdown point). Return trip at 76 MPH and drafting traffic, I did the same on a 90% quick charge.

I'd say you'd be hard-pressed to do worse than 150 in mild to warm weather.

 

[beespeckled]

I'm going through this process now. Sorry, this will be a long post.

Our travel vehicle a 2005 Tahoe is starting to show its age, over 208k miles, has been the perfect travel/towing vehicle for our small travel trailer. The costs to repair a manifold/muffler system last year, now a/c heater issues, and some other issues that we have decided are optional costs (heated seat problem drivers side is optional, but would nice if it would still work, could get a 12v aftermarket pad. Sensor in gas tank that keeps putting the check engine alert on, sunroof auto slide bracket needs repair)

I love my 2012 MiEV (purchased new in 2014) and it is still my commuter. My husband loves the Tahoe and hates riding in the MiEV, yet whenever we go anywhere he wants me to drive us.

Me, I want to be using an PHEV as the best of both worlds for our family run around vehicle. I was at a conference in May, and rented the non PHEV Outlander for the week. If the PHEV version is basically the same, I'm tempted by the possibility. (reading some reviews, looks like the usual suspects do not give this vehicle any more respect than the MiEV, but I thought it drove nicely) Yes, I wish it had the 50+ range of the Claria & Volt. But thought the vision was good as well as cargo capacity, and that it rode comfortably. Not as good as the Tahoe but a nice compromise.

I'm attracted to the Chevy Bolt as well. There is a 2017 used one with 21,000+ miles, I figure it was a lease return? It is at a reasonable price at a nearby dealer. The plus of the Bolt is that hopefully, we wouldn't have to worry about it being an orphan like my imiev. (I've went from being about 14 miles from my original dealer to having to go over 40 miles one way to get to the nearest authorized dealer for any warranty work)

Another thought: with the PHEV Outlander, that actual parts like windshield replacements, window replacements etc. wouldn't be difficult because the ICE versions are the same body type etc. unlike our little MiEV's w/their unusual rare body shapes.

Some of the things I see changing in our situation in the near future:

*For Travel/touring we will have a 2006 Class B Chevy 210 Roadtrek Versatile- which negates the need for having something to tow our small travel trailer. We could sell our beloved TT since we would have the RT. (mileage on the RT is pretty good for what it is, but the negatives: The RT is not for off-road adventuring, which we like to do with the Tahoe,-just bought beefier tires last year for that purpose)

*we will also have a 2007 Subaru Outback. My husband says he would be willing to drive it. I don't like driving the Sube. it isn't as comfy as my miEV. definitely not as comfy as the Tahoe for longer trips. The Sube will be fine in icey snowy conditions.

Lots of stuff to ponder. Luckily, I don't have to make an abrupt decision

 

[Don]

I'm going through this process now . . . . . Luckily, I don't have to make an abrupt decision

Agreed, those quick decisions usually don't turn out to be good ones

We have a 2017 Volt Premiere as our 'long range economy vehicle' which is very good at what it does - 60 miles of around town EV range and when it's running on gas at freeway speeds, we get an honest 40 mpg. I love the tech it employs and think a PHEV is a great way to go for a multi purpose vehicle. That said, getting out of an iMiEV and into our Volt, I hate the ergonomics of the Volt. Entry and egress is a pain at best, forward visibility is quite limited with the huge A pillar which stretches nearly to the horizon and carrying much of anything in the rear lift gate is difficult due to the high threshold and low ceiling . . . . but, I'm never tempted to sell it either - Other than the ergonomics, it's very good at what it does . . . . and I don't drive it every day

There are so few vehicles out there so well designed for what they do as our iMiEV's that it's almost unfair to compare anything else to them - We will literally keep both of ours until the wheels fall off and thankfully, they fill about 90% of our daily transportation needs, so when we're not 100% happy with what fills the other 10%, it's not that big a deal. We also have a 2014 Ford Transit Connect which gets driven very seldom, but is great for long trips when we need to carry things (29 mpg) and it's the only thing we have with a trailer hitch, so it's not going anywhere anytime soon either

Never driven one, but it sounds like the Outlander PHEV will probably remain on your short list. Enough EV range for most day to day trips, good visibility, decent gas mileage and towing abilities - If we didn't already have the TC, we'd probably be looking at one ourselves, but Mitsu delayed implementing them here for so long, it never became an option for us

Don

 

[JoeS]

beespeckled, thank you for sharing. In our household, once the decision was made to go ICE-less, life became very simple as the field became narrow. After so many years in a pure BEV, I really hate riding in anything with an internal combustion engine! That said, PHEVs like the Outlander or Pacifica or Volt make sense in many parts of the country.

For long distances, our used Model S has now crossed 100,000 miles, with the only maintenance cost being a $7.50 cabin air filter, two windshield wipers, and two tires at 60Kmiles, the other two tires still good at 70Kmiles. Could have bought a beautiful 2013 fully-loaded Model S85 still in warranty a couple of months ago for $25K from a friend (he was trading it in on a new Model S), so used bargains are sometimes out there. I'll be adding a hitch to my Model S. Your hubby should be happy with a Model S!

Whereas our i-MiEVs are wonderful for all our local driving, our intermediate trips have now become 'interesting' because of DCFC charging-station availability issues (often being unnecessarily Bolt-ed by clueless newbies).

For this reason and if the DCFC situation keeps deteriorating, our next purchase will probably be something like the Hyundai Kona EV or Kia Niro EV or Bolt or.... Kia recently announced that they're delaying importing the new long-range Kia Soul EV for maybe 1-1/2 years. Would an older Kia Soul work for you?

Same as you, no hurry, and I refuse to pay the exorbitant markups ($6K+ above MSRP) dealers are asking for the Kona EV [Edit 11/12: Stopped by a dealer and they wanted $9,000 above MSRP for an Ultimate!]. Used Bolt prices are now starting to drop after the first wave of lease returns, as you saw. No hurry...

 

[jray3]

Hey Beespeckled,
Since you're around the Puget Sound, here is your invitation to the Seattle EV Association meeting, convening at 7pm on Tuesday Nov 12th, and EVery month on the second Tuesday. We meet at the First Church of the Nazarene, 4401 NE 2nd Ave in Seattle (behind Dick's Drive In).
Car show begins at 6:30 and the club meets from 7-8:30, with member networking being our top priority!
-Jay
SEVA President

 

[pbui19]

bought our 2nd Bolt, another 2017, but pre-owned for $22K and a premium instead of an LT. Still looking for a Tesla, preferably a dual motor for AWD. Any one know of a good deal on Tesla, like Joes' friend, please pm me.

 

[beespeckled]

Hey Beespeckled,
Since you're around the Puget Sound, here is your invitation to the Seattle EV Association meeting, convening at 7pm on Tuesday Nov 12th, and EVery month on the second Tuesday. We meet at the First Church of the Nazarene, 4401 NE 2nd Ave in Seattle (behind Dick's Drive In).
Car show begins at 6:30 and the club meets from 7-8:30, with member networking being our top priority!
-Jay
SEVA President

Thank you for the invite, right now my work schedule doesn't permit. I do follow the SEVA FB page and appreciate how it is moderated.

 

[beespeckled]

We test drove the 2017 LT Bolt:

Our daughter liked the rear seating better than the Volt she rode in several years ago.
I liked the way it drove. It felt somewhat familiar to the iMiev as far as view out the windshield and position of steering.
What I don't like: no Chademo option. upon further reading, (I found an article in Green Cars)GM hasn't supported the fast charging OEM CCS that they went with by installing CCS or making sure CCS stations are being widely installed. Which is a bummer.

In conclusion: if the price was lower on this vehicle, even with the Chademo shortcomings, it might be a good fit.

Next up will be a test drive of the Outlander PHEV.

I know my preference is a roomy easy entrance and exit from vehicle, which despite its size, is very good in the MiEV. I feel like I'm having to fold myself un-naturally in the Subaru Outback and my daughters sedan.