My Christmas Day DCQC Trip

[JoeS]

On Christmas Day, thinking it would be a low-traffic situation, I decided to try out my new used i-MiEV on a long trip to the Sierra foothills for a family gathering, having never even tested the CHAdeMO DCQC port. Long story less long -

- Pre-planned trip using primarily PlugShare and pre-loaded L3EVSE station locations into Garmin GPS; reminiscent of planning a coastal sailing passage
- i-MiEV was loaded with over 200# (90kg) of 'stuff': two spare tires+jack+tools, over 20 different adapters, 240vac and 120vac extension cables, + Xmas presents
- Wife drove the Gen1 Honda Insight as there was a strong possibility that I would need to return home early; I shooed her on after she tagged along with me for five hours
- Took exactly eleven hours door-to-door for the exactly 200-mile (320km) trip (0930-2030hrs).
- DCQC charged five times; had to wait my turn at three stations. Peak initial charging currents around 118A.
- L2 charged for three hours (at Clipper Creek in Auburn) for the last serious nighttime climbing leg into the hills in 35degF ambient
- Last leg of trip had RR < distance to destination, but final downhill saved the night; backup L2 EVSE was accessible in Grass Valley if really needed
- Unexpected very strong headwind and no trucks to draft extended the trip inordinately across the Sacramento Valley
- Traffic proved to be very heavy and slow at times (skiers heading to mountains) - a boon, but not where I needed it
- Only one 'interesting' experience arriving at EVSE (in Rocklin) with one bar flashing after only 40miles (65km) from Davis 80%DCQC (headwind plus climb)
- 12v electric blanket was wonderful! Never turned on the heater.
- I greatly enjoyed the wine with the Christmas Day dinner that evening, and slept like a baby!

The return trip took nine hours but could easily have been 6-7 hours as I unnecessarily twice topped up using L2 after CHAdeMO and unnecessarily opportunity-charged a couple of times (primarily to try out new charging stations).

The BLINK CHAdeMO stations can programmed to charge to either 60% or 80% , the NRG eVgo to 80%. Correlated perfectly to 80% indicated on CaniOn. No ability to charge to 100% with these stations. Cost $0.59/kWh typical. Used adjacent L2 to top up a couple of times "just to be safe".

Sadly, don't have continuous CaniOn data as tablet ran out of juice using wimpy 12v--> USB adapter. Installed inverter for part of return trip, but it was intermittent. Haven't downloaded data yet.

Lessons learned:

1. CHAdeMO works best when battery almost fully depleted, which is completely counter to my normal charging regimen and conservative range driving style. No guts, no glory.
2. A significant amount of time is wasted pulling off the highway and wandering through city streets to get to the CHAdeMO stations. California is backward compared to Washington and Oregon.
3. Plugshare.com is invaluable
4. Headwinds are range killers on the Interstate if there are no trucks to draft behind; should have checked for winds during previous day's pre-planning
5. Should have loaded L3EVSE locations into wife's car's GPS - happily, she's adept at PlugShare with her iPad
6. With the 80% CHAdeMO charge, a realistic highway range for the i-MiEV is only about 40 miles (64km)
7. When I was running on that one bar flashing I almost wished I had taken a couple of my 48v Lithium packs + 240vac inverter as a 'spare' emergency power source.

This trip showed me that DCQC is certainly doable, but perhaps not for very long trips with the i-MiEV's 16kWh pack; nevertheless, my new used i-MiEV with CHAdeMO has now opened up the entire San Francisco Bay Area to us for extended everyday travel, now without any range qualms nor fears of being VOLT'd or PIP'd or Energii'd or i3REx'd at L2 charging stations (I don't mind being BEV'd).

Here's the GPS Visualizer altitude graph of my journey:

 

[fjpod]

Suppose those DC quick chargers were at gas stations at the exits of the highway. Wouldn't it have simplified things?

 

[JoeS]

Suppose those DC quick chargers were at gas stations at the exits of the highway. Wouldn't it have simplified things?

Of course!

Amortizing the DCQC installation cost without a subsidy could be problematic for the gasoline station, but they would certainly at the very least be able to sell me a cup of coffee. Also, of the eleven total DCQC stops I made, there were only bathrooms close to two of them.

 

[RobertC]

On Christmas Day, thinking it would be a low-traffic situation, I decided to try out my new used i-MiEV on a long trip to the Sierra foothills for a family gathering, having never even tested the CHAdeMO DCQC port.

Great post. Informative and entertaining.

- DCQC charged five times; had to wait my turn at three stations.

How long did you have to wait? What was your longest DCQC charge time?

1. CHAdeMO works best when battery almost fully depleted, which is completely counter to my normal charging regimen and conservative range driving style. No guts, no glory.

I am still hesitant to not drive conservatively, in case the DCQC is down when I get there. It has happened twice to me and I had to Level 2 charge for a couple hours instead.

- 12v electric blanket was wonderful! Never turned on the heater.

I don't use the heater either when I need the most range. I use the 12v electric blanket and my aftermarket heated seat cushion.

This trip showed me that DCQC is certainly doable, but perhaps not for very long trips with the i-MiEV's 16kWh pack; nevertheless, my new used i-MiEV with CHAdeMO has now opened up the entire San Francisco Bay Area to us for extended everyday travel, now without any range qualms nor fears of being VOLT'd or PIP'd or Energii'd or i3REx'd at L2 charging stations (I don't mind being BEV'd).

I loved this line!

 

[fjpod]

Suppose those DC quick chargers were at gas stations at the exits of the highway. Wouldn't it have simplified things?

Of course!

Amortizing the DCQC installation cost without a subsidy could be problematic for the gasoline station, but they would certainly at the very least be able to sell me a cup of coffee. Also, of the eleven total DCQC stops I made, there were only bathrooms close to two of them.

As BEVs catch on, and DCQC equipment comes down in price as it already has, I predict that gas stations will indeed install these units. They will want to draw the "captive" EV driver who has to wait 20 minutes to fill up. They have an opportunity to sell lots of coffee, cigarettes, and lottery tickets. They would be foolish not to.

One fly in the ointment is the recent plunge in gasoline prices.

 

[JoeS]

Thank you for the feedback, much appreciated.

How long did you have to wait? What was your longest DCQC charge time?

I think my longest wait for a Leaf to finish charging was about 20 minutes and my longest charge time was about 25 minutes. My last few charges were only 10-15 minutes each. If I recall, some of the stations had a 1/2-hour time limit.

RobertC, agree with you about not being willing to take a chance on a station being down. Happily, a lot of users leave "charged successfully" feedback on PlugShare so nowadays the confidence level is pretty high that a station is operational. More significant is taking a chance on battery depletion level by the time one reaches that charging station ... the lower, the better (from a recharging speed standpoint) but not from a nailchewing or perhaps battery-life perspective.

Incidentally, as the day wore on the CaniOn battery temperature gradually crept up until it hit 33decC (91degF) even though the outside temperature dropped from around 60degF down to around 35degF. But this was CaiOn v.124 and does not have the latest v.125 temperature corrections. Strangely, whereas I've been obsessively mothering my original i-MiEV's battery pack, with this new used i-MiEV I don't have the same overly-protective instincts (but I still do try to be nice to it).

 

[RobertC]

Suppose those DC quick chargers were at gas stations at the exits of the highway. Wouldn't it have simplified things?

Of course!

Amortizing the DCQC installation cost without a subsidy could be problematic for the gasoline station, but they would certainly at the very least be able to sell me a cup of coffee. Also, of the eleven total DCQC stops I made, there were only bathrooms close to two of them.

Solar canopy EV charging stations should be built at highway service areas. Pictured below is an example.

Additionally, gas stations with 24 hour convenience stores, bathrooms and security cameras should partner with electric utilities and/or federal/state government to install solar canopy EV charging stations with both DCQC and Level 2 charging.
The energy generated by the solar panels would offset the additional energy required by the electrical grid to power electrical vehicles. Also, the construction of new renewable solar power would counter these biased studies that say electric vehicles cause more greenhouse gases than gasoline powered vehicles because electric vehicles are "powered by coal."

 

[Don]

Sadly, the economics of building recharging stations is a 'chicken and egg' scenario in many places - No one seems willing to put up the money until there is the significant demand of many EV's to use them, and then you may not be able to count on them when you need them for fear of being 'Volted' or 'PIPed'

In May, we'll celebrate three full years with our wonderful little car . . . . and there is still not one single public charging station of any kind within 75 miles that I'm aware of - I did hear a rumor of an L2 station at a mall in Mobile Alabama, but haven't ventured over to see if it actually exists . . . . I couldn't get back home if it doesn't ;-) The only Plugshare entry anywhere near here is . . . . my house. In almost 25,000 miles, not a nickel's worth or electricity from anywhere else but our garage

On the plus side, we knew this going in and the car has still proven much more useful than we envisioned it would be/could be the day we took the plunge - It has worked out extremely well all in all

Don

 

[jray3]

Suppose those DC quick chargers were at gas stations at the exits of the highway. Wouldn't it have simplified things?

But not as much as one would think. I prefer to have the stations at restaurants. One DCFC station I hit every trip to Portland is at a Wendy's with a Burgerville across the street (locavore favorite, the greenest burger you can get). There is a grand total of 1 DCFC unit at a gas station on the Washington stretch of Interstate 5. It is also probably the 2nd-farthest unit from the off ramp, and rather than having access to a decent meal, one is subjected to fumes and weird looks from the gassed masses, and only gas station snacks as a dining option...

Btw, the I-5 DCFC unit located furthest from an off-ramp is located a full mile off the interstate at an aged grocery and laundromat in the depressed town of Castle Rock. It's part of their revitalization efforts and is one of the most reliable stations in the system.

 

[jsantala]

I regularly take a 300km (186mi) day trip. It takes me a little over 6 hours, if there are no issues. Going from home I can get away with four CHAdeMO quick charges, since I can get to a station 80km (50mi) away with full charge from home L2. The rest are 50-60km (31-47mi) apart). Going back the other way I need to make five stops, because the first stop is closer and so it doesn't help that I can start with a full charge.

So far I've just charged to 80% all stops, but I believe most if not all stations around here will continue from 80% if you just restart the charge. Currently all the stations are free to use, but most will soon be 0.1-0.2 euro cents per minute. A new station will also soon open which allows me to take a slightly shorter 280km (174mi) route and only charge four times both ways. I should be able to make the trip in less than six hours after that.

I have a ethanol heater to warm the car. Otherwise it would be impossible to make the trip during our winter time here in north Europe.

 

[JoeS]

Well, I finally received all the statements for the charging that I used on this trip. For the exactly 200-mile one-way distance, not counting starting the trip fully charged from each home, I paid $21.24 going and $23.57 coming, for a total round-trip energy cost of $44.81. This included NRGeVgo's FLEX plan (no monthly fee, $4.95/session plus $0.20/minute DCQC, or $1.50/hr L2), BLINK's plan of $0.49/kWh, an unknown outfit that charged $1.00 for a DCQC session in Benicia, and free DCQC charging in Davis.

The BLINK network charges by the number of kWhr consumed, which at $0.49/kWhr I consider a fair price. On the other hand, NRGeVgo has a number of plans, none of them cheap, and they provide no data on energy consumed. https://www.nrgevgo.com/san-francisco-bay-area/

My wife drove our Gen1 Honda Insight (77mpg) on the same round trip. Even if gasoline had been at $4.00/gallon, that 400-mile round trip would have cost $20.78.

Would I do it again? Let's see…

It took eleven hours (going) and nine hours (coming) in the EV (could have been reduced to about 7 hours) instead of 3-1/2 hours in the hybrid
It cost $44.81 for the EV instead of under-$20 for the hybrid
The eating-out cost was higher because of the longer trip

It was a fun experiment, but with the sparse availability of CHAdeMO outside our SF Bay Area and the high DCQC 'fuel' cost I think I'll simply consider our new used CHAdeMO-equipped i-MiEV as our intermediate-distance vehicle which we now take when driving outside our home-charging range.

If our lifestyle entailed lots of long road trips, I'd get a Tesla :mrgreen:

 

[PV1]

An Insight getting 77 MPG is tough to beat, but the quick charging seems quite expensive to me. The closest QC to me is free (as is nearly all public level 2 except for parking), and the next closest quick chargers are $1 per 5 minutes, equaling out to be $4-5 for an 80% charge. At $0.49/kWh, an 80% charge would be around $6.40, which I agree isn't a bad price. You get north of $9-10 for a charge, and that's getting too expensive.

 

[JoeS]

That 77.0mpg (down from 77.7mpg a couple of years ago) was that Gen1 Insight's LIFETIME mileage when it was totaled last June with 94520 miles on the odometer. The second Insight has not been hypermiled for most of its life (its lifetime is only 71.3mpg), but each trip we now take we try to get over 80mpg to slowly bring up the average, although I'm now a lot more wary of slower speeds (e.g., 60mph) on the Interstate unless I'm following a truck.

 

[jray3]

Yup, I cancelled my $20/month AeroVironment subscription, and now just borrow a friend's keyfob for the rare trip outside of the Seattle-Tacoma metro area rather than paying their $7.50/session price, which is about $0.166/mile for i-drivers! Also, the convenience factor means that my next road trip will use the pusher trailer. With gas at $1.20 and a minimum pusher mpg of 20, I'm below $0.06 per mile fuel cost. Plus, at the rate my pusher attracts cameras on the highway, it's just a matter of time before MR BEAN is the next ecomodder celebrity on Redditt....

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/reddit-has-little-freakout-over-bam-zip-pows-31144.html

 

[BenBrown]

Would I do it again? Let's see…

It took eleven hours (going) and nine hours (coming) in the EV (could have been reduced to about 7 hours) instead of 3-1/2 hours in the hybrid
It cost $44.81 for the EV instead of under-$20 for the hybrid
The eating-out cost was higher because of the longer trip

It was a fun experiment, but with the sparse availability of CHAdeMO outside our SF Bay Area and the high DCQC 'fuel' cost I think I'll simply consider our new used CHAdeMO-equipped i-MiEV as our intermediate-distance vehicle which we now take when driving outside our home-charging range.

If our lifestyle entailed lots of long road trips, I'd get a Tesla :mrgreen:

Thank is really helpful information Joe. Mileage wise, how do you define an intermediate-distance trip? Apart from that, I am right now trying to plan a 114 mile trip from Kalamazoo to Canton Michigan using side roads parallel to the interstate and driving under 45 mph av, for when my i-miev arrives. I am on pins and needles waiting to hear from the dealership on when they are shipping my car!! In Michigan there are only two DCQC. One of them is near the end of my route.

 

[JoeS]

Mileage wise, how do you define an intermediate-distance trip?

Basically, any round trip outside a 30-35 mile road radius from home - recognizing that it is usually not practicable to avoid the Interstate around here. Also, I think I'm seeing some battery degradation, especially in my new used i-MiEV. In your case, you need to factor in low temperatures as well.

Apart from that, I am right now trying to plan a 114 mile trip from Kalamazoo to Canton Michigan using side roads parallel to the interstate and driving under 45 mph av. In Michigan there are only two DCQC. One of them is near the end of my route.

Using the side roads you described it would probably be best to leave yourself a little bit of a cushion and plan on not going over 60 miles before recharging (having left home fully fully charged). If you're not an experienced hypermiler or if the road conditions are wet or you have a headwind, you might first shoot for someplace to stop around 45 miles from home. Without intermediate DCQC, it will be a long daytrip for you - and you will welcome that DCQC near the end of your trip! Be sure to have backup plans in case a Plugshare-listed charging spot is down (friends with garages and dryer outlets along the way are well worth taking out for a lunch while the car charges!). Oh, and be sure to check your tire pressures and maybe pump them up a bit over spec.

I am on pins and needles waiting to hear from the dealership on when they are shipping my car!!

All the best to you - we all understand your excitement.

 

[BenBrown]

***??? Dryer outlets... do I need a conversion plug? Where do I get one??? I'm guessing it will go faster than my 110v plug at home... yes? (if there is already info about that, feel free to direct me...)

With the car shared Leaf, and really slow acceleration up to speed (45mph in November) I was shocked to get 100+ miles total on a single charge without getting a warning of potential low charge. ...but I used the cruise control once up to speed. I was also parallel-ing the interstate highway.

I've been reading here about hypermiling... Without cruise control, I'm hoping I can discipline myself to freeze my foot on the pedal going up hill and not automatically speed up if I see a car barreling up behind me. (55 mph is the default speed on side roads outside of the villages - though some cars do 70!)

It's been a week since I signed my next few years away for "Gregory the Great" (aka Gregg or Greggor). After not hearing back from the dealer, I called to find out Gregg is in transit as of 4 hours before my call. Yipes!! I need to jump to get a ChargePoint card... maybe I can at least used my cc number for the present..

Gregg, likely won't arrive before I have to go on rotation at hospice on Thursday... That being the case I should have about 10 days before I can make the trip to Canton. If nothing else I will have time to start understanding and connecting in real time all of the incredible stuff on this forum.

 

[JoeS]

***??? Dryer outlets... do I need a conversion plug? Where do I get one??? I'm guessing it will go faster than my 110v plug at home... yes? (if there is already info about that, feel free to direct me...)

You might read through the EVSE (Charging Stations) subforum http://myimiev.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=24 and pick a thread to continue your charging options (both at home and on the road) discussion.

 

[sandange]

Hi ben


Here is a link to great posting by JoeS showing a photo with an assortment of adapters.

http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1497&start=10

You will need to upgrade your EVSE or get a 110/240v portable EVSEand a heavey gauge extension cord.

 

[BenBrown]

Thanks sandange and JoeS..