Miles per Bar/ Range / Trip Planning Discussions

[JoeS]

Ok, before proceeding, let's see if I have this straight -

START (MILE ZERO)
Orangewood and I-17
33.5457732,-112.1123152
Altitude 363m = 1191ft

FIRST CHARGING OPPORTUNITY (MILE 23.4)
Outlets at Anthem
4250 W. Anthem Way, Phoenix, AZ, 85086
https://api.plugshare.com/view/location/9621
Altitude 1902ft = 580m

SECOND CHARGING OPPORTUNITY (MILE 37.9)
Black Canyon Campground
19600 Saint Joseph Road, Black Canyon City, AZ 85324
Altitude 2078ft = 633m

END (MILE 56.1)
Cordes Junction Motel, RV Park and 50s Diner
19780 Hitching Post Way Mayer, AZ 86333
https://api.plugshare.com/view/location/67849
34°19.595'N, 112°6.966'W
Altitude 1147m = 3763ft

Edit Update: for completeness, I took the Google Maps route and dropped it into GPS Visualizer, with the following result:

Phximiev, you're right to be concerned, as no way you're going to make this in one shot with that altitude difference at freeway speeds.

I would plan on fully charging at Anthem, but then carefully driving the remainder to Cordes Junction (55mph?). If you insist on zooming at 75mph, plan on stopping at Black Canyon as well. Long trip.

Yet another edit: after looking at this graph, forget about 55mph for the six miles out of Black Canyon City up to about mile 43 - find a truck and just slowly follow him. It will only be for about ten minutes but you'll save gobs of energy not pushing the i-MiEV up that hill.

The good news is that coming back you can comfortably do it in one shot, providing you don't have a headwind.

 

[Phximiev]

It is a long trip and we'll see how the trip to Black Canyon City goes. I am a firm believer in not having close calls on the road. If you don't allow for the eventuality, it will happen!

 

[Don]

I wouldn't normally pace in front of a semi either . . . . unless he's going uphill as fast as he can at 40 or 45 or 50 *and* only then if I was worried about being run over as some of you it seems are

Me, I'm perfectly comfortable driving a steady 50 mph in the far right lane of any freeway and I'm *not* worried about getting run over - I see people doing 50 in the right lane all the time and if I'm not mistaken, the 'Federal Minimum" speed for driving on the freeway in any state is 45 mph

Today climbing the hill north out of Chattanooga on I-75 the right lane was doing no more than 40 mph for several miles. I passed a long string of cars and trucks and in front of them all was a guy in an F-150 pick-up towing a 'mini house' with his 4 way flashers on. It was a homebuilt wooden structure maybe 10 by 16 or 18 and he had no flag cars front or rear. Waaaay too big a load for the F-150 and I'm sure he couldn't safely do more than 40 even going downhill!!

The worst freeway in these parts is I-285 which circles Atlanta. If it's not jammed up at rush hour, it's entirely possible nearly everyone there is doing at least 85 mph. Still, if you stick to the far right lane doing 50 I think you would be OK . . . . there's always a 90 year old lady or man doing 45 or 50 in the right lane most places around here and . . . . they're entirely legal doing so

Don

 

[Phximiev]

and . . . . they're entirely legal doing so

It's not the laws of traffic that concern me, but rather the laws of physics....

 

[JoeS]

It's all about a hypermiling mindset, but always recognizing that there's a time and a place for it - with rush hour definitely excluded! Putting along at 55mph alone on an Interstate can be 'interesting', and over the years I put approaching drivers into categories -

1) The attentive driver, who realizes quite early that I'm going slowly and very gracefully sashays over into the left lane (nicely merging with left-lane traffic if needbe), passes me, and just as gracefully waltzes back into the right lane and continues on his/her merry way.

2) The ***** (often talking on the phone or texting) who comes roaring up behind me, brakes violently, and then proceeds to tailgate me for a few miles while weaving all the time, before finally jumping into the left lane and passing while glaring at me or giving me the finger, before jerking back into the right lane (and sometimes purposely cutting me off). A corollary to this is the inattentive driver who realizes too late that I'm driving slowly and then makes a last-second decision to change lanes. Scary.

3) The truck driver who slowly comes upon me, moves over early, passes me, moves over into the right lane after I've flashed my headlights to show he's clear, and then blinks his lights to thank me.

Needless to say, I'm quite attentive to my rear-view mirror when driving like this, with the need to occasionally turn on the flashers and/or floor it (the Tesla is incredible when doing this) - yes, I've driven the Tesla slowly a number of times when the next charging station was perhaps iffy (e.g., west Texas).

As I mentioned earlier, I much prefer to latch onto a truck or large RV going at the speed I'd like and simply mosey along behind them - I find that almost never do I have anyone come up close behind me in that scenario.

Note: I just updated Phximiev's trip (above) with an elevation change graphic and a comment regarding not going 55mph up the hill.

 

[Phximiev]

That's a great graph and exactly demonstrates the problem after leaving the Black Canyon City area. Its a steep ascent, which is why I believe that there will be a bigger hit on capacity than 1 bar per thousand. The trip from Anthem to Black Canyon City ("BCC") will take 5.5 bars for 16 miles.

From BCC to Cordes Junction (18 miles), factoring a greater hit on the mpb and using 2.5 mpb, results in an estimated 7 bars used. If the elevation hit is more or there is a lot of variation in the speed up the hill (which I have experienced in the past), then it could take 8 or 9 bars. I believe it is essential to have a full charge when leaving BCC.

You should do one of these for rkarl89203 for his entire trip based on his itenerary. Showing the elevation would be most valuable and when he returns through northern Arizona, he will need to plan for a similar ascent as he approaches Flagstaff. It could be grim if he under-estimates his usage. He needs to have a contingency plan in the mountain areas.

 

[JoeS]

Phximiev, thank you for getting us back on-topic with miles/bar.

The first longer trip I took in my i-MiEV two weeks after I bought her back in 2012 is discussed in this thread with an annotated graph (the altitude climb has similarities to your Cordes trip):

http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=269

Oops, here is the graph which some browsers don't show as an image link:
http://www.katiekat.net/Vehicles/Mitsi/MitsiCapitolaTripGraph.pdf[

Recognize that in those days I was really into hypermiling and just starting to explore the i-MiEV's range capabilities.

Here's the data for that graph (sorry for the sloppy formatting)

MilesFromHome	MilesToDestination	  FuelGaugeBars	RangeRemaining	Comments
				
0.0	41.2	16	94	
5.5	35.7	16	90	
9.8	31.4	15	83	
14.4	26.8	14	75	
15.8	25.4	14	74	
16.8	24.4	14	75	
17.4	23.8	14	74	Start climb Hwy 17
20.0	21.2	13	66	
22.5	18.7	12	57	
23.5	17.7	11	51	
24.2	17.0	10	47	Pass 1700'
24.9	16.3	9	45	Summit
28.6	12.6	9	40	
30.7	10.5	10	43	
32.1	9.1	10	44	
35.0	6.2	9	42	
37.4	3.8	10	46	
39.2	2.0	9	47	
40.5	0.7	9	49	
41.2	0.0	9	49	Arrive Capitola

From the above numbers if we say start at mile 17.4 (altitude 344 ft) and 14 bars and get to the summit (altitude 1700') at mile 24.2 with 10 bars we can say (24.2-17.4)/(14-10) = 1.7 miles/bar climbing (ouch!). :shock: (and that's at a speed of less than 40mph if I recall).

Having done that trip many times since then (even showing RR of 10 miles at the summit yet with 15 miles to go downhill to my friend's house - scared the hell out of my passenger when I pointed that out to him :evil: ) I really am totally laid-back about this particular trip nowadays.

PHximiev, on your trial trip you might take a voice recorder to record key parameters of your trial trip (here's where it's nice to have a separate GPS on the dashboard): trip miles, RR, bars, altitude, and maybe speed.