MIEV 2011, AC charging not working

[tob32]

hi, long story short i bought a MIEV for cheap that does not charge on the granny plug (230V AC)

DC/DC charger works, big charging works no problem there. Chademo(?)
battery gets 14,4V when car is in "Ready"
car run and drives normaly heater, lights and so on OK

so i read up on the OBC and opened it and found 4 blown condensators in the doghouse. all been replaced and charger is now produsing 330VDC out to the pink and blue cable to the underside that a assume is the DC/DC charging part.

when i plug in the granny charger, you hear a click, fan starts and runs for about 5 sec and stops again.
after about 5 sec u hear a click and some time later the "charging" light on the cable turns off.

yellow light in dash lights up and red cable charging ligh blinks.

car have a problem whit Park gear, it flashes when in park and difficult to find N and B gear.
. i tried to lubricate the gear selector. no dice

can a sticky gear cable cause a no charge senario?

i pulled the fault codes:

*ignition on*
before charging i have:
U1113 MiEV remote CAN T/o not equiped
P1a08 ihibitor SW: P

*turn ignition off*
*attempt to charge, fans starts...*
*charging failed*

turn ignition on again

after attemptet charging:
U1111 Display CAN timeout / not equipped
Fault1 ETACS
U1111A Active DTC
Fault3 EV-ECU
U1113 MiEV remote CAN T/o not equiped
P1a08 ihibitor SW: P
P1a12 OBC abnormal stop

i am using a MaxiDiag for fault codes. works great on other cars.

 

[kiev]

You might have 2 or more separate problems.
1.
What is the age and condition of your 12V starter battery. If it is old, weak or worn out then many faults can occur such as failure of the CAN buss communication lines (the Uxxxx codes are related to CAN).

2.
The P1A08 is related to the shift position sensing. Do you see a flashing P in the gear indicator of the combination meter of the cockpit instrument panel?

3.
For the abnormal OBC stop, there is some internal issue that is causing that code to appear.
When you replaced the capacitors in the doghouse, were those the 4 mounted on a little circuit board next to the relay?
Was the fuse in the MCU blown?
Did you check the diode drops in the waffle plate?
How about checking for ~10 Ohms resistance thru the 2 white ceramic resistors in the AC input section?
Checking the functioning of the AC relay?
Was there any metal splatter from the blown capacitors on the bottom layer of the upper control board, possibly shorting out tiny pins on that board?
Your symptoms are similar to those of folks that had these issues on the AC input.

4.
The 330 VDC on the pink and blue wires inside the OBC is coming from the pack thru the fuse in the MCU. This just indicates that the fuse is OK, not that the OBC is working.

 

[tob32]

hi, and thanks for swift response

You might have 2 or more separate problems.
1.
What is the age and condition of your 12V starter battery. If it is old, weak or worn out then many faults can occur such as failure of the CAN buss communication lines (the Uxxxx codes are related to CAN).

battery is old, but have used a big new AGM battery in paralell through jumper cabels during testing.

2.
The P1A08 is related to the shift position sensing. Do you see a flashing P in the gear indicator of the combination meter of the cockpit instrument panel?

yes, this i see. it is also difficult to get Netrual and B to show in the instrument panel.

do you know if this can cause a charging fault? i have taken off the cable and removed the rust so it now operates normaly, but think i have to adjust the sensor to get i properly working.

3.
For the abnormal OBC stop, there is some internal issue that is causing that code to appear.
When you replaced the capacitors in the doghouse, were those the 4 mounted on a little circuit board next to the relay?

i replaced the 2 small one that was in the black glue stuff, these where cracked. replaced whit 1nf 2kv blue capasitors.

i also replaced the big black condensator whit the coil filter right whit the ceramic resistor. this was showing 0uF on the multimeter.

on the top board, theres was a black 2,2uF capasitor that also was bad/blown. this was replaced whit a new one as well.

Was the fuse in the MCU blown? no, this is OK.

Did you check the diode drops in the waffle plate? no i have not checked this.
waffle plate had no signs of getting hot or any kind of damage.

How about checking for ~10 Ohms resistance thru the 2 white ceramic resistors in the AC input section? these where desoldered and messured to 4,5ohms. so i resolderd these one as my replacments had to big wire for the hole in the circuit board. ( 4,7ohm 50W)

Checking the functioning of the AC relay? this has been replaced whit a new identical one, same Ohm over the coil(32Ohms?). thouh i had to break of the NC contact pins as they where not made holes for in the PCB

Was there any metal splatter from the blown capacitors on the bottom layer of the upper control board, possibly shorting out tiny pins on that board? not that i could see, board looks to be in good condition.

Your symptoms are similar to those of folks that had these issues on the AC input.

4.
The 330 VDC on the pink and blue wires inside the OBC is coming from the pack thru the fuse in the MCU. This just indicates that the fuse is OK, not that the OBC is working.

 

[kiev]

Most failures are on either the AC input side, or the HVDC output side; but you seem to have had both.

therefore i would definitely recommend to check the diode drops of the waffle plate, as referenced on the first page of the OBC Troubleshooting thread.

The MUT tool can read down into the OBC to get the specific failure area, does your scanner do that? Here are the internal codes,
https://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=36493#p36493

Your 12V battery situation may be contributing to the problem; we have seen this happen in hundreds of EVs. There can be no confidence with a less than perfect 12V battery. It can result in a multitude of faults across numerous un-related systems.

 

[tob32]

OK,thanks for tips.

i will see if a can arrange a better 12V battery situation, just for elimination sake. never know when a battery comes in handy.

scanner says fault 3, but im not sure how relaible that is, i will double check tomorrow.

any suggestions on a easy fault to make, to vertify that the scanner can read internal fault codes?

guess i have to take out the PCB card again and *sigh* desolder the vaffle plate again.

 

[kiev]

There is a lot of information on troubleshooting the OBC on page 1, eg
https://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=36347#p36347

has a link to the expected diode drop voltages, which can be measured without removing the waffle plate.

OBC code 3 indicates abnormal output current, if your scanner has read the obc codes.

 

[coulomb]

guess i have to take out the PCB card again and *sigh* desolder the waffle plate again.

? I think you can test the Waffle Plate™ by merely disconnecting the quick connect terminals. Unsoldering the plate is a huge job, I don't see the call for that just yet.

 

[coulomb]

er the vaffle plate again.

Google Photos is a terrible place to host images; the URLs are looong and aren't actually images, so browsers won't show them.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=bV9jcG54WXdfTUhucEJDQVRTcFRURHNfZmhwMzFR

 

[tob32]

good day goodfolks.

so todays attemt was as following

i measured the AUX 12V battery to 11,05V. so this i belive is on its way out. for fault finding purposes i connected my 12V dummy charger on the battery. this held the voltage to about 13,5V all day. i use this chargen when coding old BMWs.

so after charging the car for about 10 minutes, i switch the ignition to on, cleared all fault codes and tried charging whit the charger connected.

after clearing codes i have following codes stored.
-U1111 display CAN timeout
-P1A08 inhibitor SW
-B1702 transponder read error. the key for the car is completly FUBAR so have orderd replacment housing. dont think this is relevant for charging.

*ignition off, plug in charger*
*fans start, runs for about 5 sec. relays clicking so on so fort.*
*fans stops, granny charger light turns off*

codes after charging attemt:
-U1111 display CAN timeout
-P1A08 inhibitor SW
-p1A12 OBC abnormal stop

so after this i tried diffrent random stuff just to see what would happend.

first i opened the OBC to messure voltages.
during charging i have:
-230V in on the black and white wire going to the PCB card in bottom
-330V DC on the pink and blue cable, and both orange cables. so guess these are connected somehow

i then for funnsies, disconnected the big DC cable that i presume is from the main battery.
connected the carger, 230V in, 0V on DC side. (pink and blue, and bot orange cables)
fans only runs for about 1-2 sec, before stopping. so i guess if fuse to battery or something like this the fans runs for a shorter time, nice to know.

i then disconnected the CANBUS cable on the top board and connected the grannycharger, granny charger does not light the "charging" lamp. but if you turn the ignition ON it will turn on the "charging" light on the granny charger and this will stay on untill you disconnect the cable.

so after all this i deleted all fault codes stored and tried one more time to charge, no dice.

before
U1113 MiEV remote CAN timeout
P1A08 inhibitor SW

after:
U1113 MiEV remote CAN timeout
P1A08 inhibitor SW
P1A12 OBC abnormal stop.

i the removed the top board and checked the connections from the filter fransformers to the bottom board. and found that the cable marked B2-T8A and one to the DC filter(the one in the right corner whitout a name) side was swapped. if the picture from virusman is correct though

Hi again guys, could some one check connection on board for two trafos?
See photo beloow:

so after swapping these, i tried to charge again and got a new code.

U111D OBC CAN- timeout
U113 Miev remote...
P1A08 inhibit SW

i then remebered someone talking about a fuse on the top board F701, so i checked this and found it to be blown.

so now i have taken the top card whit me back home to see if i can resolder something to test.

can F701 create a U111D OBC can timeout fault that leads to a no charging fault?

my scan tool does not have "the archive for OBC module" so cant take out OBC spesific codes.



behold, the magnifisent beast


charging setup, fluke to messure voltage drop.


two diffrent grannychargers, both know to be working (whit a toyota prius...)

 

[tob32]

hmmmmmmmmmmmm



after closer look i found F701 to be in order, was some kind of protectic layer i had to remove to be able to messure it

 

[kiev]

There is a drawing with the wiring colors and connections for the fastons from the transformers, seems there was some questions about it at the time
https://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=40765#p40765

What pins are scorched in your picture of connector CN1, pin 1 starts at the right with the little white triangle?

Did you measure 230VAC thru all the wiring and relay down to the "L" and "N" solder junctions of the waffle plate on the power board? i.e. when plugged in for the first 5 seconds or so. Do you hear or feel the orange relay kick in?



The CN1 flat ribbon cable has chassis ground on pins 1-4,16,18,20,31,33,40,47-50.

 

[tob32]

it looks to be pin nr 29,30,33 and 34. counted from the right hand side
or 17-18, 21-22 counted from the left. due to the board been upside down



no i did not think of messuring to the waffleplate. try again tomorrow.

if pin 21 i torched, the relay will not have ground to the relay coil, if i understand corretcly

"pin 21 up to the top board where it is routed to the collector of transistor TR301"

TR301, controls the AC relay?

 

[kiev]

The connectors on each board have the white triangle on pin 1.

[sorry i confused some posts with garbage]

pin 25 of CN1 is the return line for the AC relay and goes to TR301.

pins 26-29 are the 5V supply for the AC relay coil.

pin 30 is the drive signal that goes to Q506 of the transformer T502 (drives FETs in the waffle plate)

 

[tob32]

in that regard it is pin 29-30 and 33-34 that has some damage on them.

i have found that
pin 33 is earth
pin 34 not in use, cant fin any trace ( in your post its 16V nominal)
pin 30 goes to to resistors on the oter side, R552 R764,messures 6,2Mohm and seems to enter IC502
pin 29 i cant see where it goes. (in your post it goes to RLY1 5v supply.

 

[kiev]

i'm having a hard time seeing the traces right now, will try again later

i think the burnt pins are related to the gate drivers for the transformers T502 and 501 on the bottom power board that drive the FETs in the waffle plate.

 

[tob32]

yesterday i pulled out the lower plate again and cleaned it for thermal compond.

the flex cable itself i have found some burn marks and damage on it, i remeber when assembling the card after soldering, that one pin on the ribbon cable was alitte bendt so i turned the ribbon cable around so the bendt one was on the lower card and mounted in on the bench to be sure it would`t "move" during installation

i am woundering if it might have made contact and shorted something, that green stuff that looks like oxidation, i do not have any good explenation for and cant remeber to have seen any during dismantling.

but as i inspected the top board again, i also saw the same marks in that plug, so it might have been there all along.



but it is -15C and snowing here everyday so might have come some snow on it.

cable looked likte this on intial inspection.



while removing the ribbon cable, this was half way inside the contact, i cant realy tell if it is left over from solder after desoldering the waffle plate or som of the black gulp on the board.


overwiev of the ribbon cable


so im a completly flabergasted about this, but regardless im gonna order a new ribbon cable 50 leads, 0,5mm spacing 10,2cm long. original is 8cm long.

https://www.elfadistrelec.no/en/fla...e=50&filterapplied=filter_Cores=50&track=true

and hope nothing has take damange, might be lucky. if any of the "fine electrics" has taken damage, i am afraid the charger is "FUBAR"

tomorrow i am leaving town for chrismass and might be back at 28.dec. and pick it up from there.
hopefully the ribbon cable has arrived then. anything else i should order?

 

[kiev]

That is a nasty looking cable, like one trace has lifted and touched its neighbor and shorted. Do you think this was the initial fault damage, or did it happen during reassembly after repairs?

Might want to inspect the header and replace it if there are damaged contacts inside,

The diode drops in the plate can be measured from the solder terminals without needing to desolder the 72 joints. If it checks out okay then you are likely good (and lucky).

You could power up the control board on the bench with 12V power supply and measure the voltages created on the big electrolytic caps to see if the regulators are working okay.

where are you located, that is quite a bit of snow and bite-ass cold temperatures.

[edit]
i noticed the cable you linked is tin plated copper with shielding; not sure if it matters the OEM cable looks like either gold plated or bare copper?

 

[tob32]

happy new year.

i recived the new ribbon cable, it was a perfect fit. but you have to reuse the black connection pieces as they are one of a kind.

i refitted the ribbon cable, messured the wires and all looked ok. mounted the charer in the car.

i do no longer have fans spinning up, or the "charging" light on the granny charger to light up. if i turn on the key, i get "charging" light in granny charger, but no fans, no relay sounds

i checked power and fuses, and have +12V permantly on top board. and on +12v when switch is on.(red and purple?)
black for ground is ok.

no error codes before you try to charge, then i get a OBC bus timeout code.

as i have power in, no communication and a new ribbon cable. i think the charger is FUBAR.

as of this, the car whent for scrap.

as i hate forum whit no ending, i wanted to close this case.

i want to thank everyone for the help i have recived, and will be back if i buy antoher miev sometime in the future.

happy new year.

 

[Arne]

Hi,

I'm trying to repair a friend's Imiev with a defective OBC. The car can charge on DC, but not on AC. The dealer proposed installing a new OBC after reading fault codes 39 (Power Factor Correction (PFC) Circuit Output Voltage Abnormal) and 43 (Inverter overcurrent abnormal). Due to the high cost of a new OBC, I will try to repair the defective one first.

I opened up the OBC and noticed a blown AC input capacitor. The resistor located next to it probably also needs to be replaced. The snubbers seem to be OK, but I didn't remove the potting material around them. Is there a way of replacing the defective components without de-soldering the Waffle plate? Which replacement parts should I buy?

I uploaded an album with all the pictures of the repair.

https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjAuj3S

I also noticed the contacts on the ribbon cable are bent too. This probably happened at disassembly somehow. I guess I will have to order a new ribbon cable and re-use the black connection pieces too. Or is there an easier way to replace this cable?

IMG_20230303_134647 by Arne Pl, on Flickr

Based on the fault codes and defective components, are there any other components I should check and replace?

I have a Vgate iCar Pro Bluetooth 4.0 (BLE) OBD2 reader. Can I use this to read and clear any remaining fault codes? Which app is recommended for this?

 

[kiev]

Howdy Arne,

If the ceramic resistors measure ok, then you likely only need to replace the AC capacitor and may be able to get to it from the side without removing the waffle plate.

How did the pins on the flat cable get bent--did you force it? it should easily slide in and out when the black bar is released. Probably have to replace that unless you can repair it.

If you decide to de-solder the plate, then might as well replace everything that might fail in the potted region, but it might be worth just replacing the AC capacitor and testing that it all works again.

Check all the diode drops in the waffle plate first.