Juanjo Madrid's cell replacement thread

[hjdlsnbc]

If this last option is possible, why not reduce my pack from 88 to 80, extracting 8 selected bad cells and changing BMU module, or only the firmware of my BMU car for 80 cells BMU or firmware module. Them I need a BMU 80LEV50N what work well with 80LEV50 chemical.

Kolyandex is selling the software to read and write the BMU firmware. What you plan do not need his activity to modify your firmware to higher capacity because you want the existing BMU firmware that is installed on many other cars out there or in your case on a BMU you also have.

I do not know how far the data goes in what you find. But for me it does not sound like its something that would do what you want. These data is always named 'learning'. Never 'configuration'.
Look again at the page - its a learning data you get from ECU and write to ECU. It does not seem to be something that is read or written from or to the BMU.
This information in combination with the information from the service manual (date 2009) that the BMU does not store errors but the ECU store the errors the BMU reports to the ECU, it seems like the BMU have no config/learning data on its own and also no VIN saved on it.
When you watch again the video from kolyandex, you can see him flashing the 1024KB firmware file. The chip itself in the BMU is reported to be 1024KB big.
And last point is: The manual programming (when you do not have the old data) of the learning data looks to also confirm that its doing just a single thing and that is to add the estimated battery degradation to the ECU so that when your car was at the dealer and you pick it up, you do not get wrong estimations like thinking you got a free battery replacement or think when for example the learning data is been reset/lost you can now drive for example 150km far away from the service point just because it show you this estimated range because of missing learning data.

I think its more promising to read out the BMU firmware from the LEV50N 80cell BMU and put this on the existing BMU you have now in your car and put there the 80cells instead of the 88cells. Also please read out both firmware and upload them to the forum. This could be helping other people.

 

[Juanjo Madrid]

Cuando mires de nuevo el video de kolyandex, puedes verlo flasheando el archivo de firmware de 1024 KB. Se informa que el chip en la BMU tiene un tamaño de 1024 KB.

If this guy do this in the firmware, I think is because the BMU is where have the config of capacity, and actual travel of RR matches with the voltage, etc.. if Mitsubishi use this procedure to read a BMU damaged or not working properly, and copy this file in the new brain of new BMU I think is probably copy all the config of the BMU one in other, the full Data not the software, If the programner is smart probably work one time with every change of size & kind of batteries, only change the variables not the code but need a procedure to renew the module in the middle age of a battery perfectly working.

 

[Juanjo Madrid]

This information in combination with the information from the service manual (date 2009) that the BMU does not store errors but the ECU store the errors the BMU reports to the ECU, it seems like the BMU have no config/learning data on its own and also no VIN saved on it.

It's normal, the ECU supervises the others ECU around it, If a module fail not is good this module store itself errores, because is failing. The central ECU is the best designes "proof to fail" device.

I think its more promising to read out the BMU firmware from the LEV50N 80cell BMU and put this on the existing BMU you have now in your car and put there the 80cells instead of the 88cells. Also please read out both firmware and upload them to the forum. This could be helping other people.

How do this in Diagbox?, only have a BMU but if buy the Zero battery pack have the second inside.

 

[MickeyS70]

This information in combination with the information from the service manual (date 2009) that the BMU does not store errors
And last point is: The manual programming (when you do not have the old data) of the learning data looks to also confirm that its doing just a single thing and that is to add the estimated battery degradation to the ECU so that when your car was at the dealer and you pick it up, you do not get wrong estimations like thinking you got a free battery replacement or think when for example the learning data is been reset/lost you can now drive for example 150km far away from the service point just because it show you this estimated range because of missing learning data.

That’s correct, afaik this functionality will only transfer/restore the current battery capacity (SoH), all other parameters are part of the configuration file.

I think it’s more promising to read out the BMU firmware from the LEV50N 80cell BMU and put this on the existing BMU you have now in your car and put there the 80cells instead of the 88cells.

As mentioned previously, running a LEV50 pack with a 80cell BMU that’s using LEV50N parameters can have disastrous consequences.

There is no stock 80 cell BMU version that runs on LEV50s, as all packs (IMiev/CZero/IOn) had 88 cells before gen 2 LEV50Ns were introduced. Afterwards the clones dropped 8 cells but improved (seemingly) the regen algorithm to keep original range, while I-Mievs continued to be equipped with 88 cell packs.

 

[Juanjo Madrid]

No existe una versión estándar de BMU de 80 celdas que funcione con LEV50, ya que todos los paquetes (IMiev/CZero/IOn) tenían 88 celdas antes de que se introdujeran los LEV50N de segunda generación. Después, los clones perdieron 8 celdas, pero mejoraron (aparentemente) el algoritmo de regeneración para mantener el rango original, mientras que los I-Miev continuaron equipados con paquetes de 88 celdas.

But the new Imiev, never use LEV50N? If yes, is possible change firmware from a new BMU Imiev to my Old BMU models? or is preferable change to LEV50N only cells and forget the BMU firmware change?

 

[hjdlsnbc]

The last 4 posts here contain all wrong assumptions or misunderstanding.

I think is because the BMU is where have the config of capacity

To my current understanding there is not a different config file in the BMU. Its inside the firmware of the BMU. This firmware have to be modified.

if Mitsubishi use this procedure to read a BMU damaged or not working properly, and copy this file in the new brain of new BMU I think is probably copy all the config

No, there is no config read out in these procedure. Its just configuring the ECU to know how degraded the battery is.
If you think i am wrong, i would be happy to be proven that. Please read out these data out of few cars, post them here to the forum and explain what part of the data is BMU configuration data.

If the programner is smart

You are the programmer in case of changing settings inside the BMU firmware. You have to decide on your own how smart you are.

only have a BMU but if buy the Zero battery pack have the second inside.

This is known. That is why i wrote the text you quoted.

How do this in Diagbox?

Find it out on your own. Its publicly known that @kolyandex does about everything with OpenPort 2.0 and you see his written software in the video. If you want to do it other way, try it out on an other way.
For example i am thinking of trying out the cloned PCMflash software at some time.

As mentioned previously, running a LEV50 pack with a 80cell BMU that’s using LEV50N parameters can have disastrous consequences.

This is not what i wrote. I wrote the opposite. I wrote he should get the firmware out of the LEV50N-80cell pack BMU and put this on his old BMU and install the 80 LEV50N cells from the LEV50N pack into his current battery. This was also his own idea that i liked. The benefit for him would be not having to do BMU rewiring because of different positions. The benefit for the forum would be when he post both BMU firmware files to this forum.

But the new Imiev, never use LEV50N?

No, also here its the opposite. The story about that point of the imiev in short:
Car got released 2009 with Yuasa LEV50 and because those was bad and quickly degraded (you are here because of that) and there was bad press articles and angry customers about that, they first released the 10,5kWh pack in Japan with Toshiba LTO SCiB cells and Yuasa also reacted to the bad press as fast as possible to not fully loose Mitsibishi as customer to Toshiba and released the LEV50N cells. Since about end of 2012/beginning 2013 the cars are equipped with LEV50N. On the PSA cars directly visable because with the change LEV50 to LEV50N thes changed from 88LEV50 to 80LEV50N cells.

 

[MickeyS70]

This is not what i wrote. I wrote the opposite. I wrote he should get the firmware out of the LEV50N-80cell pack BMU and put this on his old BMU and install the 80 LEV50N cells from the LEV50N pack into his current battery. This was also his own idea that i liked. The benefit for him would be not having to do BMU rewiring because of different positions.

Sorry, I misunderstood, but why go to all this trouble if you could just swap the BMU (after moving the 80 LEV50N cells into the old pack)?

 

[hjdlsnbc]

The BMU moved into the Battery on most recent produced battery have still same connectors, size, mounting and so on? You can get them in full out of the battery and install them again under the backseat?

 

[MickeyS70]

The BMU moved into the Battery on most recent produced battery have still same connectors, size, mounting and so on? You can get them in full out of the battery and install them again under the backseat?

Yes, the BMU’s HW doesn’t seem to have changed over the years, i.e. warranty pack replacements kept the BMU HW, just updated the FW to make it LEV50N compatible.

 

[hjdlsnbc]

Service center is updating the firmware of the BMU for LEV50N and not like most times just replace the whole thing? Where did you get that information from?

 

[MickeyS70]

Service center is updating the firmware of the BMU for LEV50N and not like most times just replace the whole thing? Where did you get that information from?

I think I came across a packing list for a battery replacement (can’t find it anymore) that listed FW update CDs but no actual BMU HW…

 

[hjdlsnbc]

Would be great if you could find that sometime again. The CD number or of course at best a copy of the cd would be great.

 

[piev]

Sorry, I misunderstood, but why go to all this trouble if you could just swap the BMU (after moving the 80 LEV50N cells into the old pack)?

Hey Mickey,

If you swap BMU's it has to be reprogrammed with the the now VIN number or the ECU has to be reprogrammed to accept it. I've not done it before so I don't know the procedure but I know it checks all this information before it talks to it. There is a function to reprogram in the MUT. I saw a video of a guy doing it on a airbag module. He had to go to Mitsubishi and download the file and load it into the new module. It was on an Outlander but I am sure it works the same.

 

[MickeyS70]

Hey Mickey,

If you swap BMU's it has to be reprogrammed with the the now VIN number or the ECU has to be reprogrammed to accept it. I've not done it before so I don't know the procedure but I know it checks all this information before it talks to it. There is a function to reprogram in the MUT. I saw a video of a guy doing it on an airbag module. He had to go to Mitsubishi and download the file and load it into the new module. It was on an Outlander but I am sure it works the same.

Don’t think the BMU is VIN coded, otherwise below would not have worked:

https://myimiev.com/threads/miev-with-c-zero-parts.5521/

Afaik VIN programming is only required for ETACS-ECU, EV-ECU and MCU..

 

[Juanjo Madrid]

I finally bought 90 LEV50N in China, in 60-75 days I hope to be able to install them in my car. 2 weeks negotiating for a good price, through a friend with a company in Hong Kong. 2190€ already at my house in Madrid, I didn't want to risk with an 80-cell battery that has been stopped for 4 years due to a rear-end accident, and finally get 14.5 Kwh or have to mix with 8 cells of different capacity to reach 16Kwh theoretically.

The best price my fiend have found for 90 CATL93 grade B batteries (Svolt imitation CATL) is €3900. I have not yet tested these batteries, but I have ordered 4 for prompt delivery. I have been told by several sellers that this model has been discontinued for months and that they only have the slim model now.

 

[MickeyS70]

2 weeks negotiating for a good price, through a friend with a company in Hong Kong. 2190€ already at my house in Madrid.

Good price, does that include custom and tax charges?

I didn't want to risk with an 80-cell battery that has been stopped for 4 years due to a rear-end accident, and finally get 14.5 Kwh or have to mix with 8 cells of different capacity to reach 16Kwh theoretically.

Lithium batteries can be ‘left on the shelf’ for a long time due to low self discharge. Adding 8 additional cells with a higher capacity would not have been ideal, but should have worked.

and that they only have the slim model now.

Any idea of the dimensions/capacity of these?

 

[Juanjo Madrid]

Good price, does that include custom and tax charges?

All, DDP Door to door

Any idea of the dimensions/capacity of these

See pic's:
Catl93Ah thin model and Svolt 90Ah

 

[kiev]

I finally bought 90 LEV50N in China, in 60-75 days I hope to be able to install them in my car.

Do you have dimensions of these cells to share? Do they have the threaded holes for the CMU boards to mount?

This would be an amazing find if they are an identical fit that required no modification of the module frames, etc.

 

[hjdlsnbc]

Are not all LEV50 and LEV50N the same dimensions and same mounting?

 

[kiev]

No they aren't. Here you can see that the newer cells with the yellow shrink wrap are taller and have different terminal configuration.