Barebones new Leaf undercuts i-MiEV pricing

[alohart]

The price for the 2013 MiEV in Canada makes no sense:

Maybe the price increase is for the new charging cable that's switchable between 8 and 12 amps. I see no such option for U.S. i-MiEV's, but then the U.S. i-MiEV site doesn't list a 2013 model yet, maybe because there are so many unsold 2012 models.

Good luck to Mitsubishi Canada in their competition with the Leaf S which I assume will be sold in Canada as well.

 

[jray3]

Wonder what the market for used iMiEVs is like in Canada, given that inflated MSRP and the fact that Loonies are actually valuable these days! I see one low mileage used i listed at a Burnaby, BC dealer, but it's the only late mode pre-owned with no price listed. BC also has a $5k credit for new EV purchases that expires on 3/31/13, and there's still $5MM left in the fund!

 

[DonDakin]

Hello All,

Just check out our pricing in Canada vs US pricing for Leaf's and iMiev's. Much more in Canada.

It's marketing. Our Canadian market is smaller they will only sell these rare cars here at premium prices. It's a different world in terms of pricing. It is strange since we are neighbors. The only thing I can say is the cheap Quebec electricity/expensive gas really makes the car peanuts to run. In Quebec they know that and can keep the price of the car at a premium.

Even thought it's crazy it's kind of nice (for me) to see the price of my car has climbed $2000.00 from 2012 to 2013. Coupled with my gas savings I figure by this Aug I will have saved overall about $4000.00 by purchasing the car last year.

I think getting in early on Electric makes good economic sense.

Don........

 

[JoeS]

Glad to hear about the LEAF's B mode, although the regen in ECO before was pretty strong, but selection was either high or low, there was no in between except with brake pedal work.

PV1, having racked up a few hundred miles on a Leaf, compared to the iMiEV, I consider the Leaf's regen in ECO to be wimpy, and I'm glad they've added B, although I'm ticked off that they didn't do it in their bottom-of-the-line car. The iMiEV is sooo much more fun to drive, IMO, and it has more room in the back with the seats down, but if you need five seats then that's what I recommend to my friends. So, PV1, the longer you procrastinate the less time you're enjoying the benefits of our great little car.

 

[NeilBlanchard]

Don't both the i MiEV and the Leaf have regen on the brake pedal?

There is a tenet of ecodriving that if you have to use your brakes (regen or friction) then you have accelerated too much. That is why free wheel coasting most of the time and then using regen when you need to slow down is more efficient; because you use less energy up front, and the need to regain as much energy afterward is not as critical.

 

[MLucas]

Don't both the i MiEV and the Leaf have regen on the brake pedal?

There is a tenet of ecodriving that if you have to use your brakes (regen or friction) then you have accelerated too much. That is why free wheel coasting most of the time and then using regen when you need to slow down is more efficient; because you use less energy up front, and the need to regain as much energy afterward is not as critical.

The regen is also modulated using the amp pedal. Learning to use the amp pedal efficiently should be a new EV owner's first task. The brake pedal should only be stepped on at the point of actually stopping or in an emergency. I tend to use the brake at the last few feet. I start my deceleration by releasing the amp pedal just enough to put the amp meter into the neutral zone and glide into my stop point. As I get closer, I keep releasing pressure on the amp pedal to slow the car and start the regen. In the last few feet I put on the brake. I also found if the driver does not want any regen, then just put the floor selector into Neutral - whala, no regen. Feels like an ICE, very strange feeling having no regen, though.

 

[PV1]

PV1, having racked up a few hundred miles on a Leaf, compared to the iMiEV, I consider the Leaf's regen in ECO to be wimpy, and I'm glad they've added B, although I'm ticked off that they didn't do it in their bottom-of-the-line car. The iMiEV is sooo much more fun to drive, IMO, and it has more room in the back with the seats down, but if you need five seats then that's what I recommend to my friends. So, PV1, the longer you procrastinate the less time you're enjoying the benefits of our great little car.

I know, it's killing me to keep waiting. The fact that nearly everybody is trying to talk me out of it, the rebates are being used up, and the uncertainty of a 2013 model keeps me second guessing. Being so close to the Auto Show here, I want to see what's coming up this year, but the timing is going to be tight in going to the auto show, buying the car, and getting the state rebate (I don't know if the federal tax credit is going to help me at all). My initial hold-off on the car was winter performance, but that doesn't seem to be an issue, after hearing about the car working in -10 F temperatures. We've only seen that temperature once in the last 10-15 years, 0 F is about the bottom and is a rare occurrence.

The Volt gets endlessly recommended instead of the i because it has 'a gas backup'. The family is deathly worried I'll run out of charge on the side of the road. I guess they think it'll randomly run out of charge with no warning and just stop. If I was only going to have one vehicle available to me, then I would probably take the PHEV route. But, we have three cars right now, including the car I'm driving now. When I buy the i, my car is going back to my dad for him to drive to work. The way our schedules work, if I would need to switch him cars, it wouldn't be a problem. So, in essence, the i would be replacing an SUV instead of a car. Not to mention I can't afford a Volt.

It has been at least 6 months since I've driven either car, so it's getting harder to remember how the cars compare. But now that I think about it, the i's regen did seem stronger. It held 25 mph on a much steeper hill than the LEAF did. I really like the LEAF, but the i is better because it's easier to drive, has better visibility, and is cheaper (I want quick charge port, which requires LEAF SL). I don't need seating for 5, I rarely have any passengers. We asked the Mitsubishi dealer about an extended test-drive, I more or less have to buy the car to get one (just shy of owning it). There is another dealer some 50 miles away that would be my best bet. They said they hold events at the local Best Buy and let people drive the cars for a day. I'll have to check it out. Can the i manage 45 miles on the highway at 65 mph and 5 miles at 40 mph?

 

[danpatgal]

I know, it's killing me to keep waiting. The fact that nearly everybody is trying to talk me out of it, the rebates are being used up.
Can the i manage 45 miles on the highway at 65 mph and 5 miles at 40 mph?

Based on all you've said, I'd say the iMiev would work for you (having a backup gas car (or two - or even to borrow your Dad's).

But, as to whether the i can manage 45 miles at 65mph + another 5 at 40 ... I've not done that, but I know that highway speeds suck the crap out of EV range, and the i doesn't have great aerodynamics. My friend with the Volt can drive the 45 highway miles (at 60 mph or slower) to work and just barely have the gas engine kick in the last few miles (if it's not too cold). If he takes the back roads (shorter 35-40 mi, and slower) he makes it with several miles range remaining. So, it's roughly a 20% range sucker ... which means the i might not make 50 miles with mostly highway at 65mph.

 

[PV1]

Okay. I found a shorter route. 47 miles all at speeds 45 mph and below. It's actually the old route I used to take when I worked down that way. I forgot about that route. I hate that portion of the highway anyway. 65 mph is the slowest you can safely do. A lot of natural gas drilling workers drive that highway and do 80-90 mph constantly. That's another reason I believe an EV will suit me well, I avoid highway driving as much as possible.

 

[Don]

There is a tenet of ecodriving that if you have to use your brakes (regen or friction) then you have accelerated too much.

That's well and fine if you're going for the world record EV distance (you could have added that anything over 20 mph isn't aerodynamically advantageous too) . . . . but unless you live in the middle of nowhere, then you're probably driving with the flow in everyday traffic, trying to actually get somewhere, so using the brakes (either regen or friction) just means you're trying not to hit the car in front of you

In such cases, regen gives you back about 70% of the energy you 'wasted' getting up to the speed of the traffic flow, so it's sure better than friction brakes - In the real world, I use regen a lot

The could have built a slippery car with the lowest CD of them all . . . . they could have added a freewheeling clutch (or one you could manually engage and release) and we might have got an extra 20% of range or thereabouts, but what they built was practical car that an average driver can learn to drive with little trouble or training and which can hold 4 adults and enough cargo to make it really useful . . . .and they did it at a price that more of us can afford

No one design can suit everybody perfectly - The one they settled on suits the average driver pretty well, IMO. The regen they offered in the B mode is a real plus in everyday driving

The Volt gets endlessly recommended instead of the i because it has 'a gas backup'.

If the Volt was a true EV with an onboard gas backup I think I would have seriously considered buying one. What I don't like about it though is the programming which only allows you to use about 60% of the battery capacity before the ICE kicks in. This limits you to 30 to 35 miles in most cases from the same 16Kwh battery our iMiEV has. If you need to go 50 miles to get home and recharge, why force you to burn gas for the last 10 or 15 miles when you already have sufficient battery power to finish the trip?

Can the i manage 45 miles on the highway at 65 mph and 5 miles at 40 mph?

Probably - If you could do 55 instead of 65, I'd say it would be no problem

I predict if you buy one, you'll be pleasantly surprised at what the car will do for you in real world usage. We also have 2 other cars and the amount they're getting driven since we bought the iMiEV has been a real surprise. We thought perhaps the EV would be suitable for maybe 75% of our daily needs, but it's turned out to be more like 95% - We're actually to the point of finding an excuse to drive one of the other cars just so we can keep the batteries in them up

Don

 

[TXCharlie]

I almost waited for the Ford Focus EV to come out, because it recharges in 4 hours, since it has a 6.6 KW charger (Focus is supposed to eventually be available in 3 or 4 flavors I think: Gas, EV, Hybrid, and/or Plug-in Hybrid).

However, the price was forecast to be about $10k over the MiEV's current price, but the range is only like 5 or 10 miles more. I couldn't see spending $10k just for a faster charge. Ford will have to follow suit and lower their Focus EV price, or double the range. I might pay $10k more if it had a 150+ mile range instead of a faster charge rate.

 

[Vike]

I almost waited for the Ford Focus EV to come out, because it recharges in 4 hours, since it has a 6.6 KW charger...

I often see this point raised as an unalloyed good, but I think it should be considered with appropriate caveats. Yes, the Focus-E is better configured for opportunity charging, since it can draw power twice as fast from public chargers. But if you're charging at home (the reality for EV buyers in most parts of the country), 6.6kW is a decidedly mixed bag. If you're charging overnight, there's not much difference between 6-7 hours and 3-3.5 hours, but 6.6kW is a heck of a load to add to your electrical system, possibly enough to force you into an expensive panel upgrade.

 

[TXCharlie]

Yeah it's about 220v @ 30a.

I would HOPE their charger will have switchable charge rates and two swappable cables, one for 110V at about 10a and the other for an electric clothes drier outlet, which is usually 220v 30a but not necessarily.

But the charger they include with the car is probably like the MIEV's charger, which forces you to buy a separate charger for the high charge rates.

 

[Vike]

But the charger they include with the car is probably like the MIEV's charger, which forces you to buy a separate charger for the high charge rates.

I don't know anybody that's including a portable EVSE to plug into a dryer outlet (or equivalent) with the car, though I've seen some 3rd party swap/upgrades that purport to offer this. Nissan and Mitsubishi have not been encouraging on this point; you can search this forum for some of the minor horror stories.

 

[Lithim]

PV1
Thanks for lots of good information and vehicle comparisons.
Had a question about your estimate of $4000. for Prius oil changes for eight years. Seems like pretty expensive oil or lots of oil changes per year.

New silver ES owner in Houston.