jray3
Posts: 1752
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:05 am
Location: Tacoma area, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Fuel costs

spirit wrote:How much does it cost to recharge at a recharge station? I heard a charge of $2.50 to plug in. Would that not put a dent in the savings?
Hi Spirit,
Here in the Tacoma/Seattle area, a 1 hr minimum ChargePoint session is $1.70, and Blink starts at $2.00 At 3.3 miles/kwh and at least a 3.3 kW charging rate, that's $0.16 to $0.18 per mile for 'fuel'. In comparison to $3.50/gallon gasoline, it's the cost equivalent of 20 mpg, which is about equal to the average economy of the existing US fleet. Coincidence? I think not.
For me, that's a very acceptable price for public charging, especially since my average use of a public charger is an hour or two to get 'over the hump' on a high-mileage day.

BTW- for a 70 mile R/T commute, a top-off charge at work will be essential. What do you use to charge at work?
2012 i-SE "MR BEAN" 128,000 mi, 34 ah
2016 KIA SOUL EV, 76k miles
2000 Mazda Miata EV, 78 kW, 17 kWh
1983 Grumman Kurbwatt EV,170 kW
1983 Mazda RX-7 EV 43 kW 27 kWh
1971 "Karmann Eclectric" EV 240 kW 19 kWh
JoeS
Site Moderator
Posts: 4168
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:47 am
Location: Silicon Valley, California

Re: Fuel costs

From a different thread,
tigger19687 wrote:... At $30 a month for fuel...
This comment prompted me to re-examine what the fuel costs might be for me IF it were not 'free' because of my now fully amortized solar PV system.

My most-recent Time Of Use Pacific Gas & Electric E-7 (grandfathered and highly desirable) baseline summer rates are:
PEAK (noon - 6pm) $0.36/kWh
OFF-PEAK (6pm - noon) $0.11/kWh

I basically shut down everything in my all-electric house (except the refrigerator) between noon and 6pm and, with rare exceptions and because we now have two i-MiEVs, never need to charge during the day.

OK, my i-MiEV averages 4.2 miles/kWh Ref: Measured Wall-to-Wheels Consumption

We average almost exactly 1000 miles/month

Thus, we consume 238.1 kWh/month

Which would cost (if we paid for it) $26.20/month or 2.6¢/mile

Not too far off from tigger19687's $30/mo number.

Nice theoretical exercise in case someone locally asks about 'fuel' costs.
EVs: Two '12 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 TeslaMS85, three 156v CorbinSparrowsLi(NMC), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conversions: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab96, 48v1kW bike
RIP(2021) ICE: Orig.Owner '67 Saab96V4, '88 IsuzuTrooper; '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV
iwatson
Posts: 123
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:12 am
Location: Bartlett (Memphis), Tennessee

Re: Fuel costs

JoeS wrote:OK, my i-MiEV averages 4.2 miles/kWh


Hey JoeS,

I read this in another thread you posted, plus some other imiever's that posted some higher and some lower efficiency figures, so I officially use your estimate in figuring fuel costs. BTW: We also read your post recommending the garmin gps. I went on ebay and bought the one you recommended! We entered 4.2 as our "MPG" and our killowatt/hr rate in place of "fuel price per gallon", so it constantly gives us our cost for miles traveled!

Our electric rate from TVA is just .09 cents a killowatt hour (using that cheap coal) and last month my wife drove her "i" 750 miles....using your 4.2 miles/kwh, our cost for fuel was only $16.07

People in our part of the country (With a few exceptions) are generally clueless about electric cars! Pity, as we have one of the lowest (if not the lowest) electric rates in the country!
2012 Raspberry imiev SE Premium
2017 Cajun Red Chevrolet Bolt EV
2011 Viridian Joule Chevrolet Volt
2008 Cadillac SRX
2002 Forest River Sunseeker 3100
2001 Buick LeSabre
1997 Chrysler Town & Country
tigger19687
Posts: 559
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:19 pm
Location: Bedford/Concord MA

Re: Fuel costs

Good thread here.
I got that amount from adding up the miles I drive for work plus a few more for going to the store etc.
Then just added up what my Electric costs (not including the basic stuff that is added just for having the service) and it came out to about $30.

WAY better then $300-$400 in Diesel.
- Linda
-2017 Chevy Bolt Premier Bright Blue
- 2014 Toyota Prius C, for the Son
JoeS
Site Moderator
Posts: 4168
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:47 am
Location: Silicon Valley, California

Re: Fuel costs

Boy, do I love my PV solar!

Just out of curiosity, I checked my latest Pacific Gas and Electric E-6 Rate schedule. In addition to different TOU Peak, Part-Peak, and Off-Peak rates we've had a Tier reduction down to two levels: "Baseline" and "Over 100% of Baseline".

Baseline usage is supposed to be the low-cost basic minimal-use level for a household in a month. Unfortunately, they treat power generation kWh the same way and as soon as I generate enough kWh to get above their baseline number (16.4kWh/day) they charge me at that higher rate even though I got into that category generating and not consuming! Go figure, but I don't mind as the good news is that they pay me back at that higher rate!

So, recognizing that I am always in the "Over 100% of Baseline" category, here are my summer rates:

Peak (1pm to 7pm): 45.7¢/kWh

Partial Peak (10:00am to 1:00pm and 7pm to 9pm): 34.2¢/kWh

Off-Peak (9pm to 10am): 26.5¢/kWh

I've had solar for 12 years, and have always been dollar-positive because the energy I generated was high-valued and resulted in a net $ number in my favor over the course of the year despite being energy negative (which means I consumed more kWh than I generated over the course of the year). Once a year, the utility does the accounting and has zeroed-out the positive dollars I had accrued over the course of the year because I was net energy-negative.

For the first time in this last year I will be a net energy producer which means I will actually get paid! Thanks to our Tesla Nova Scotia 50-day trip last Fall our home consumed a negligible amount while we were gone and we are now both energy-positive as well as dollar-positive! Can't wait to see what the utility ends up paying me in June in terms of ¢/kWh.

OK, so here's the question on the table: since the utility pays me for the electricity, does that mean I have a positive "fuel" cost and I actually make money driving my EV? :geek: :roll:
EVs: Two '12 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 TeslaMS85, three 156v CorbinSparrowsLi(NMC), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conversions: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab96, 48v1kW bike
RIP(2021) ICE: Orig.Owner '67 Saab96V4, '88 IsuzuTrooper; '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV
Matheos
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:18 am
Location: Greece
Contact: YouTube

Re: Fuel costs

Hi,
This Car is not economical !!! They simply shift the gasoline costs that the gas station takes to the manufacturer (In this case Mitsubishi ) !
The charger goes bad after 8 years or so and you must pay 4000 euro for another! The battery must be changed after 15 years or so and cost until yet 10.000 euro! Is that no Green driving thanks to Mitsubishi ?????
Pier
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:01 am
Location: St-Aubert, Qc,

Re: Fuel costs

Hi,
To me this car has been very economical. No repairs in 9 years. No oil changes. just changing tires twice a year ( winter vs summer tires) And moreover for Joe, I forgot how high were the electrical bill in CA, here we pay only around 5cents/kwh up to 40kwh a day on a 2 month basis, and around 7.5cents over the average 40kwh, which is very easy not to exceed.

I have 1.24 kw peak nominal power PV just for the fun of it because electricity is so cheap here.

Pier
Matheos
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:18 am
Location: Greece
Contact: YouTube

Re: Fuel costs

Economical is when you pay for the battery 5000 euros or so and not 10.000. Eventually, you will change the battery and for every penny you saved on gasoline you will pay it to Mitsubishi! And pray until then that everything is going well with your car!
JoeS
Site Moderator
Posts: 4168
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:47 am
Location: Silicon Valley, California

Re: Fuel costs

Hi Matheos, I understand your frustration, especially as it applies to total cost of ownership.

This thread is about fuel cost which is still one of the i-MiEVs strong points, as it has proven to be quite efficient, at least in the summer.

If you'd like, perhaps we can have a separate thread discussing the trials and tribulations of being early EV adopters and the risks we took purchasing either a new or used i-MiEV and if/why that is different than any other BEV out there? Note, for example, Hyundai very quickly removed the 'lifetime' battery warranty (I like to think, after some of us pushed them hard to guarantee a fixed battery degradation number).
EVs: Two '12 Wht/Blu SE Prem., '13 TeslaMS85, three 156v CorbinSparrowsLi(NMC), 24v EcoScoot(LiFePO4)
EV Conversions: 156v '86 Ram PU, 144v '65 Saab96, 48v1kW bike
RIP(2021) ICE: Orig.Owner '67 Saab96V4, '88 IsuzuTrooper; '76 MBZ L206D RHD RV
Matheos
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:18 am
Location: Greece
Contact: YouTube

Re: Fuel costs

Hallo Joe5,
Please tell me where is the fuel economy if you pay 10000 euro on a battery after 15 years! I have bought the Peugeot ion (used 22.000Km) for 12.000 euro I charged with solar power, I have never charged with a fast charger and now I can make only 80Km without heat and air condition!
The car has 90.000Km now!
And as I say 10.000 euro if everything goes ok and you have not to pay an OBC for 4200 euro!
And something else: The inside blower for heat and cooling has a tendency to go bad !!! Guess how much it cost new on this car!
260 euro about 300 Dollars. In other cars, it's about 70-110 euros.
So what a like to say that this car has built for economical reason, but not that what we at first think. The benefits in long term are on the wallet of Mitsubishis CEOs !!!! :(

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