My first winter in my Meepster... so far!

Hey all. Been awhile since I posted in the iMiEV forums (or even visited the forums). Been preoccupied with various other life distractions. I originally planned to post this under the “PREPARATION FOR COLD SEASONS” thread, but by the time I had gotten to my sixth paragraph, I started feeling empathy for anyone who had to read through my post just to get to the juicy stuff in the rest of the thread. So, I decided to start a cold weather thread of my own and add to it as I experience my first winter with my i-MiEV, which was purchased in July 2013.

For the past three weeks, we have finally been experiencing very cold weather here in the Chicagoland area. So, I thought I would post an update on my experience with my Meepster thus far and thoughts I have on cold weather driving. I'm the one who has been so OCD concerned about range and comfort during cold weather. So, now that it's here, it's time to talk from personal experience.

I have definitely noticed a significant decrease in range in the cold weather. When it first started cooling down a bit in mid-autumn, my average RR after a full charge dropped from 78-83 miles RR to around 68-73 miles RR. During this time, I didn't really need to use climate control (CC) much. So, I can safely assume this decrease is due to lower ambient temperatures, and thus, lower battery capacity.

The past three weeks, we have seen daily high temperatures range between 10°F - 45°F, with it seeming to average right around the 30°F - 38°F range. During this time, I have noticed a very significant decrease in RR after a full charge, as would be expected. These mornings, the RR has been ranging between 58-61 miles. However, I need to put a big ol' asterisk next to those numbers. Those numbers are with the CC already turned on at my default settings when I first start the car. If I'm paying close attention, when I first turn on the car, the iMiEV will briefly flash the non-CC RR before immediately recalculating and posting the RR with CC factored in. The non-CC RR usually appears to be somewhere in the 68-72 range. So, pretty close to my mid-autumn RR numbers. I am sure these RR numbers will continue to drop as we move deeper into the winter season and start getting our daily highs in the teens and single digits.

Now that range numbers are out of the way, let me get to my initial experience and thoughts on cold weather driving in the iMiEV. First I will describe our SOP with regards to CC during the regular work week. Many, if not most, of you have seen my frenetic posts in other threads regarding range anxiety and comfort during the cold weather season. If you recall, my daily round-trip commute during the workweek averages around 35-40 miles or so depending on any running around I need to do during lunch or in the evenings. This includes: 1). Leaving our house and dropping the kids off at their grandparents', which is roughly three blocks away; 2). Driving my wife to the commuter train station, which is about 4 miles into the drive; and 5). Finally arriving at work, which is almost exactly 15 miles from start to beginning. Sometimes I run local errands during lunch and maybe a couple in the evening.

My SOP these days is to use the remote to pre-heat the car about 20 minutes before we leave in the morning (if I remember). Plugged into an L2 EVSE, pre-heating the car gets it very nice and toasty, as long as I start it well before we plan to leave. I am quite surprised at how warm it gets; almost as warm as any ICE I've driven. I then get everyone and everything packed and buckled in the car and only unplug the Meepster immediately before I get in and take off. My standard CC settings that I leave on almost all of the time are the temperature turned all the way up, the fan speed right in the middle of the dial (dial indicator is perfectly horizontal and pointing at the driver), and the vent dial set to feet/defrost. With pre-heating and these settings, the iMiEV stays nice and warm for the first part of the commute. We lose a little heat when we drop off the kids because all the doors and the hatch get opened and closed. However, the car is still comfortably warm-ish during the drive to the commuter train station. I lose a bit more heat when my wife gets out of the car. During the remaining drive to work, with my standard CC settings, the climate stays... meh. It's not warm but it's not cold, either. It is comfortable enough to drive without my gloves and my hands don't freeze.

Another thing I should mention is the driver's seat warmer. Whenever I have passengers in the car, I DO NOT use the seat warmer. This is mostly out of solidarity as I feel it gives me an unfair advantage. Why should I have a nice toasty bum while everyone else has to just suck it up?! Secondarily, it allows me to experience the climate just as everyone else does. I can make adjustments to the CC if needed. However, once I have dropped everyone off, I turn on the seat warmer for the remaining drive into work. If the outside temperature isn't too bad and if the sun is out, I may drop the fan speed down to the very first click to save range.

Once I get to work, the car is parked outside unprotected for 8.5 hours. Sometimes I run errands at lunch. So, it gets a little use then. But most of the time I work through lunch, and the Meepster will have to sit in the cold the entire duration of the workday. Unfortunately, my work does not have any charging stations, and they will not allow me to plug in anywhere. So, I do not have the convenience of recharging during the day and pre-heating my car before leaving in the evening. So, every night, I have to start with a thoroughly chilled iMiEV. If the daytime temp wasn't too low and the sun was shining brightly, the cabin temp may be bearable. However, as it keeps getting colder and the sun keeps setting earlier each day, my car is going to be chilled to the frame everyday when I leave work. If it is exceptionally cold, which it has been a few days already, and depending on my RR and the anticipated drive time home, I may turn on MAX heat for a few minutes to get things warming up a bit faster. But then I immediately turn off the MAX and go back to my usual middle fan speed setting.

Here are the RR numbers I am seeing for my commute. In the mornings, with the CC set to my usual, I am starting off with 58-61 miles. By the time I get to work, I usually have around 35-39 miles left on the RR. By the time I get home from work and pick up the girls from the grandparents', but before picking up my wife from the train, I usually have anywhere from 12-20 miles left, depending on traffic. Since I still have to go pick up my wife from the train, I always plug the iMiEV in right away when I get home to give me a little more juice. I can usually get about 30-40 minutes of extra charge time before we leave to pick her up. Also, this lets me pre-heat the car again before we leave. This extra charge time and pre-heating is very important because we have to get to the train station about 10-15 minutes early in order to avoid a cr@ppy traffic situation that occurs if we leave any later. So, this means we are usually just sitting in the car with our heat running waiting for my wife. No driving. No chance for regen. No plugging in. Just sitting there using precious RR to keep us all mediocre-ly warm. Unfortunately, due to the sometimes unreliable nature of our particular train line, my wife's train could be running a little late. So, we sit there even longer using power to keep from freezing. From past experience, the unreliability of the train ALWAYS gets worse as the winter season gets colder, and we can sometimes experience SIGNIFICANT delays. I am going to have to devise an emergency plan for such situations as we could seriously run the risk of going “turtle” sitting there trying to stay warm. And, of course, once my wife arrives, we still need to keep warm on the drive home.

Now I will express my opinions and/or concerns about the iMiEV during the little bit of cold weather driving that I have experienced to date. So far, we have not really had any weather that has caused hazardous driving conditions. So, I will not cover the iMiEV’s handling in such weather as I have no experience with it yet. This is purely related to range anxiety and passenger comfort. Here goes:

1). I love the remote pre-heat feature… as long as I remember to use it! Now that cold weather is here, and I have the iMiEV plugged into my L2 EVSE pretty much whenever it is not in use, I can pre-heat the car anytime I need to use it! As long as I remember to start it well in advance of my departure, it can get very warm and toasty; on par with an ICE.

2). On the downside, once you unplug the iMiEV, the inside cabin temp can start dropping pretty quick depending on the outside temp and your use/non-use of the CC. One of these days, when it is really chilly out, I’m going to test just how long the cabin temp stays warm enough to keep us comfortable. Unfortunately, I have my doubts about it staying warm for long, and I don’t think my wife will let me carry on the experiment for very long!

3). With that said, the iMiEV seems perfectly capable of maintaining a comfortable interior temp after unplugging; even maintains a WARM environment for a brief time. But by comfortable, I mean it keeps you from freezing or wishing you had multiple layers of thermal undergarments. By no means does it keep the cabin nice and WARM for an extended period of time. Of course, I may not be giving the iMiEV proper credit as I have not had the bravery to put its full MAX heating capabilities (unplugged) to the test for an extended period of time. As it is, I’m just barely making it home at the end of the day with the minimal of amount of heat I’m using. I would not dare attempt to use the MAX heat setting during the entire trip to work unless I had a charging station at my disposal once I got there, which I don’t. So, I don’t use MAX.

4). My experience with using MAX heat while driving is very minimal. The few times I have used it were on exceptionally cold days when I was leaving work. The Meepster had been sitting outside in the cold all day. I wanted to warm her up as quickly as possible. With the temp setting at full heat, I pushed the MAX button and let ‘er rip! However, as soon as I felt warm air starting to blow, I turned off the MAX heat and went back to my usual CC settings. Watching the RR miles getting chewed up with MAX heat running is enough to make me fear the turtle and become quite miserly with the heat.

5). I have noticed that the fan speed seems to have a greater effect on RR than the temp setting. Here is my half-baked, nonscientific experiment with CC heat settings. With the temp on full heat and starting with the fan on click #1 (lowest speed), my RR drops one mile for each increment of increased fan speed. If I start with the fan speed on my usual middle setting and the temp on full heat, turning the heat DOWN from full heat to the midpoint between full and the green dot (neutral), I gain at most only 1 mile on the RR. It’s not until I move the temp past the midpoint and closer to the green dot that I see a marked effect on the RR.

6). So far, as long as I keep the temp setting at full heat and the blower on (even on its lowest setting), I have no problems keeping the windshield and front windows clear of fog. The back windows tend to fog over a bit if I have passengers, but nothing too bad. Since we have not yet had ice/frozen snow on the windshield (Meepster is garaged at night), I have not been able to test its efficiency at defrosting the windshield. However, since it doesn’t have a heated windshield at the bottom to de-ice the wipers, I have a feeling it would take much longer than what I’ve become accustomed to with my other cars.

7). The driver-side heated seat cushion is a nice little featurette, but hardly a major selling point. While it is nice, I don’t know why they even bothered including it if they weren’t going to make it a full-seat warmer. I like having nice, hot buns as much as the next guy, but my back would appreciate a little sugar, too! What I don’t understand, and something that kind of angers me, is there are Mitsu dealers who still have iMiEVs in their inventory and they are listing the driver seat as having both a heated cushion AND a heated seatback. So, either the dealers are outright lying (no, couldn't be that) or my heated seatback is not functional. Also, why did they stop with just the driver’s bum? What? Passengers don’t like warm bums???

8). Another annoyance to me is the windshield washer fluid dispenser. While this is not a complaint specific to cold weather, it is definitely exaggerated in the winter due to the more frequent necessity of washing the windshield. The location of the dispenser is very inadequate for washing the entire windshield. I would much prefer the usual location of the sprayers mounted in front of the windshield. Also, the washer fluid dispenser freezes up at even the slightest whisper of the word “cold”. I bought some de-icing washer fluid today, though. I hope that will help at least the freezing problem.

9). (Also not specific to cold weather) It is annoying that they included only one 12-volt power outlet in the front dash. At the very least, they should have one in the rear of the armres... oops, sorry. There is no armrest! I meant the center console. ;-) My daughters sometimes need to plug in their iDevices, and they do not reach to the front. Also, since I may likely get 12-volt heated blankets for my passengers’ comfort, it would be nice to have the added accessory outlet for the rear passengers.

Okay, enough of my numbered points. As it currently stands, my main concern is still keeping myself and my passengers comfortable while still having enough range for my daily commute. So far, this seems to be working out just fine. The Meepster is perfectly capable of keeping my passengers comfortable, even toasty, for the short duration they ride with me in the morning. And the Meepster still has the range to get me to and from work with a little slack, even if just so. However, as the weather continues to get colder, my anxiety will continue to increase. I’m hopeful that there will come a point (sooner than later would be best) where any further decrease in outdoor temperatures will not have any discernible effect on my range or climate comfort.

Since it is already winter, if not according to the calendar, and already very cold outside, it is too late for me to get under the car to try and insulate the i-MiEV’s heater core and plumbing. Not that I really wanted to take on that task anyway. So, I am keeping an eye on alternatives to staying warm and extending range. I’ve already started wearing all my usual winter gear including my insulated boots, which I wear to and from work and then change into my dress shoes that I keep at work. Today at Wally World, I picked up one of those 12-volt plug-in car heaters. I don’t have any delusions that it is going to keep the car warm, but I’m hoping it will help keep the windows defogged with minimal use of the CC. The heater has a timer on it that I can set to start heating the car before I leave work. However, since the accessory power outlet is turned off when the car is turned off, that feature is useless to me.

Another Item I have picked up with high hopes for staying warm are these “Click Heat” http://www.clickheat.eu/ instant-heat thing-a-ma-bobbers. Has anyone else seen these? I bought them at one of those center-aisle kiosks at the mall. They are pretty amazing and get really, REALLY warm! I haven’t had a chance to use them in practice yet, but I’m hoping for the best. The only other thing I’m considering at this time is possibly ordering a couple of those “Cozy Car” 12-volt heated blankets to keep in the trunk for times when additional heating may be really necessary.

Anyway, thanks for your attention if you actually read through this entire treatise! I will add any additional comments to the thread as I think of them. Feel free to add your own comments, suggestions, advice, opinions, or criticisms!

Thanks Robb, I even managed to read it in a single lunch hour! ;-)

I hadn't heard of the Clickheat products before, very interesting. Here's a nice 'splanation from Wikipedia:
Sodium acetate is also used in consumer heating pads or hand warmers and is also used in hot ice. Sodium acetate trihydrate crystals melt at 137.12°F / 58.4°C,[4] (to 136.4°F / 58°C [5]) dissolving in their water of crystallization. When they are heated past the melting point and subsequently allowed to cool, the aqueous solution becomes supersaturated. This solution is capable of cooling to room temperature without forming crystals. By clicking on a metal disc in the heating pad, a nucleation centre is formed which causes the solution to crystallize into solid sodium acetate trihydrate again. The bond-forming process of crystallization is exothermic.[6][7][8] The latent heat of fusion is about 264–289 kJ/kg.[5] Unlike some other types of heat packs that depend on irreversible chemical reactions, sodium acetate heat packs can be easily recharged by placing in boiling water for a few minutes until all crystals are dissolved; they can be reused many times

So, with an energy density of let's say 275 kJ/kg (equals 76.4 watt-hrs per kg), how do these heat packs compare to our batteries?
The LEV 50 cells are rated 50 Ah at 3.7V, or 185 Watt-Hrs, and each cell weighs 1.7 kg, for 108.8 w-hrs/kg.
That makes the chemical heat packs 70% as energy dense as our batteries (without any of the needed hardware). The ClickHeat back-pack weighs exactly 1 kg and retails for $40. A similar battery to ours, CALB, retails for $1.45/Ah, making our cells cost about $72.50 apiece, or $42.65 per kg, plus bms, heater coil, etc...
This suggests that a supplemental battery pack would be a better buy than ClickHeat packs, because not only do you get more heat per dollar, but the battery is useful for much more than just winter heat.

But what about the old-fashioned hot water bottle? Water gives up 250 kJ/kg from 100C down to 40C, so 69.44 watt-hrs per kg, only slightly less than the ClickHeat packs, it's free, and you still have a warm bottle of water at 40C.... I'd bet that down to 'room temperature', the hot water energy density is better.

So, the ClickHeat packs provide heat on demand, but not much else. A similar-sized hot water bottle would appear to be a much better buy, and could be filled from the office kettle or tossed into the microwave before leaving work. You'd have to boil that water anyway to recharge the ClickHeat pack... Just like with driving electric, a little pre-trip planning pays off.

Jeez, always the buzzkill, eh?! Just kidding! ;-). The Click Heat packs just seem much more convenient than wiring up a supplemental battery pack or taking 5-10 minutes to heat up a hot water bottle when all you really want to do is get the heck out of dodge! With these packs, I can just click 'em and shove one in each boot and one of the big ones over my shoulders and around my neck and call it a hot day at the beach!

Hi RobbW,

Sounds like your are making out OK.

I would look for L2 charging along your route home just in case for winter storms. Also I don't know how much snow and slush you are driving thru but that stuff adds drag....

One thing came to mind while reading your post. During that 30-40 minute that you can recharge L2 you could also preheat with a 1500 watt ceramic heater put into the car. I did that a couple of times last year when I was only on L1 charging. That would give you about 7 miles of extra range or so. Heading out for a 10 mile run with 20-27 miles of range and a warm car should be pretty good.

There is also the propane tent heater which I carry around but don't use much. Only about $40.00 kind of an emergency item.

I saw 12V electric blankets on sale last weekend good idea. I may just pick one up.

Enjoyed your discourse.....

Don......

Hi RobbW,

Very interesting reading about your trials and tribulations of driving the i-MiEV in the winter. This is my second winter driving the i-MiEV and I feel I finally found the perfect settings for the HVAC controls that give me the most efficiency and comfort that I can expect. The top knob - one click above the green dot into the red zone. The middle dial - the fan speed on AUTO. The bottom dial on defrost (without the A/C turning on) and the button for recirc pushed in (ON). After the car is preheated the top knobs one click will keep a modicum of heat in the car. The second knobs AUTO function will regulate the heat in the car, only turning on as needed. The bottom knobs DEFROST will keep cool air out of the footwell and onto the windows helping to clear fog. The RECIRC will keep cold fresh air from entering the cabin and cooling down the interior. I can stay relatively comfortable with this setup all the way to work (27 miles).

I've also added a heated seat pad to the drivers foot well, works great! No more cold feet, I'm really impressed how this works so well. I wasn't sure if my feet would stay warm enough with a heated seat pad but it does!. In your case, I would take this a step further and replace the drivers heated seat with a full heated seat and add one to your passengers seat. These add on kits are available at Amazon and other places for $100 - $200. Then I would also add 12v outlets so your kids can have those plug in electric blankets. Then you won't be needing to use the heat so much.

If you haven't insulated your car, you should take the time to do that as well. Many of us have done that and have seen positive results with the car staying warmer longer. The rear door speaker grills are wide open to the outside door skins. Cold air is definitely getting in through there. I've completely blocked them off with insulation, since I don't need or want rear speakers in my car. The floorboards have very little insulation and in some areas, none at all! The i-MiEV is a DIY car and you will have to modify it to suit your needs. If you aren't willing to do that or pay to have that done, then the i-MiEV probably won't work for you and the way you plan to use the car.

As far as charging at work. Not being able to charge is a problem. Do you work in an office park? Or are there neighborhoods close enough to walk to work from? One of my ideas that I had if I could not charge at work was to put out a flyer in the nearby neighborhood and ask if anyone wanted to make $100 a month for letting me park in their driveway and use their electricity. I work in downtown Buffalo where office and houses are located nearby each other, making this possible. You'll just have to get creative on the charging problem.

There is an installer of Enerlogic window film near me, but the only time I've made it there, they were closed. This stuff was mentioned in one of the cold weather threads here. It would be great for holding heat in, but at the same time, it will block incoming heat from parking in the sun. This is good for summer, bad for winter. I feel there is a lot of heat being lost through the windows. I have to keep the heat on just to block the cold air coming off the side window and windshield. Otherwise, I'm shivering within 2 miles.

Heat loss through the headliner must be pretty bad, too. I noticed on warm nights in the summer, that having the dome lights on for more than 5 minutes would prevent dew from settling on the roof above them.

If only we could keep the heater circulation pump on without the the heater on (fan only blowing residual heat), without having to buy a Webasto. Add in a "Thermos Bottle" for about a gallon, heat it with pre-heat, and have the pump run should be good for a 10 minute run.

Okay, a few responses and some additional points of information:

DonDakin said:

I would look for L2 charging along your route home just in case for winter storms. Also I don't know how much snow and slush you are driving thru but that stuff adds drag....

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the nearest L2 station is roughly four miles in the opposite direction from my commute home. So, not close enough to plug in and walk to work. However, in a worst case scenario where I would never make it home without a top-off, it is an option. I would just need to notify my in-laws that I will be late picking up my daughters and then find something to do for an hour or so while my car charges.

DonDakin said:

One thing came to mind while reading your post. During that 30-40 minute that you can recharge L2 you could also preheat with a 1500 watt ceramic heater put into the car. I did that a couple of times last year when I was only on L1 charging. That would give you about 7 miles of extra range or so. Heading out for a 10 mile run with 20-27 miles of range and a warm car should be pretty good.

Click to expand...

Not exactly sure how this helps other than it allows all the L2 power to go towards charging the car instead of splitting some off for pre-heating. Is that what you meant?

MLucas said:

The top knob - one click above the green dot into the red zone. The middle dial - the fan speed on AUTO. The bottom dial on defrost (without the A/C turning on) and the button for recirc pushed in (ON). After the car is preheated the top knobs one click will keep a modicum of heat in the car. The second knobs AUTO function will regulate the heat in the car, only turning on as needed. The bottom knobs DEFROST will keep cool air out of the footwell and onto the windows helping to clear fog. The RECIRC will keep cold fresh air from entering the cabin and cooling down the interior.

Click to expand...

Cool, thanks! I will give your settings a try and see how they work for me. This truly is a balancing act that can only be learned through trial and error.

MLucas said:

I've also added a heated seat pad to the drivers foot well, works great! No more cold feet, I'm really impressed how this works so well.

Click to expand...

I will need to look up your thread where you describe how you did this. Sounds like a good idea!

MLucas said:

In your case, I would take this a step further and replace the drivers heated seat with a full heated seat and add one to your passengers seat. These add on kits are available at Amazon and other places for $100 - $200.

Click to expand...

It's a flippin' shame that this is what we'd have to resort to! Whose bright idea was it at Mitsu to only put a heater in the seat cushion? Talk about cheaping out on a vehicle for which they're charging a premium to own.

MLucas said:

Then I would also add 12v outlets so your kids can have those plug in electric blankets. Then you won't be needing to use the heat so much.

Click to expand...

I will also be giving great consideration to this mod.

MLucas said:

If you haven't insulated your car, you should take the time to do that as well. Many of us have done that and have seen positive results with the car staying warmer longer. The rear door speaker grills are wide open to the outside door skins. Cold air is definitely getting in through there. I've completely blocked them off with insulation, since I don't need or want rear speakers in my car. The floorboards have very little insulation and in some areas, none at all! The i-MiEV is a DIY car and you will have to modify it to suit your needs. If you aren't willing to do that or pay to have that done, then the i-MiEV probably won't work for you and the way you plan to use the car.

Click to expand...

Yes, yes, yes... I know this would probably help, but it sounds like a lot of work and expense. This is why I have been sometimes annoying with my questions in these forums about the i-MiEV's climate control performance in cold weather. I was trying to get a good read on whether manually insulating the whole car was more of a luxury for DIYers or basically a necessity for cold weather comfort. I got opinions from both sides. I couldn't get a consensus before it got cold out. So, I decided to hold off and just tough it out through my first winter in order to experience first-hand the benefits and downfalls of winter driving in the Meepster.

So far, I am leaning more and more to insulating my car for the next year. But it all depends on whether I can find just the right combination of planning, preparation, execution, and climate control settings to make winter driving relatively comfortable or if it is all a lost cause and I need to bite the bullet on the insulating. The insulating sounds like a REAL pain especially if you have to cut and stuff batting into every nook and cranny, pull down the roofliner to insulate it, pull up the floorboards to insulate those, basically tape up everything in the frame and cabin, climb under the car to insulate the heat pump and water lines, and pray to the heavens that all the insulation mods don't make your car look like a hacked-together POS! Too bad there isn't a quick and easy way you could simply inject foam insulation into every nook and cranny and call it a day!

MLucas said:

As far as charging at work. Not being able to charge is a problem. Do you work in an office park? Or are there neighborhoods close enough to walk to work from? One of my ideas that I had if I could not charge at work was to put out a flyer in the nearby neighborhood and ask if anyone wanted to make $100 a month for letting me park in their driveway and use their electricity.

Click to expand...

Before I go to that extreme, I'm going to try one last-ditch effort at work. I'm going to see about offering to pay to plug in at work. So far, I can't get a good read on whether the issue is they don't want me running up their electric bill or if it's a perception problem; that co-workers will think I'm getting a free charge at work.

Insulating your car is not that big of a deal. It may seem so from the threads that describe the process. I used the reflective barrier insulation from Home Depot. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Reach-Ba...olyethylene-Insulation-Roll-DD24025/204476651 $25.00 for this much and it goes a long ways. It's easy to work with and just use the foil tape to stick on to your car. You can do all four doors in about an hour. That would be the first step. You can use the stuff around your heater and the heater water tank, too. I used the neoprene pipe insulators for all the hoses. With a pair of ramps inside your garage you should be able to take care of the whole thing in a short afternoon.

The heated pads upgrade is a bit more work. I haven't yet described the process but plan to soon. Just in case anyone else is interested in adding a heated pad or more.

I would definitely go and ask about paying for plugging in. It's less than a dollar a day with our 8amp chargers (?), well its not much anyway. I pestered my parking garage for awhile to get official permission to plug in but they would never get back to me. One day, I just plugged in as I was very desparate and nothing happened. I kept doing it and before I knew it, winter was over and no one said anything to me about it. There is a camera right over top of the place I park which isn't even a parking spot, so I know they know I'm doing it. Here's the second winter and I'm doing it again, and still no one has said anything to me. I've offered to pay them, but that didn't get a response either. In your situation, I would say look - I'll pay for it and then some so no one thinks I'm getting some kind of free ride. You may have to go to the building manager and speak to them. My agency only leases this space, they have nothing to say about whether I can plug in or not.

Here's my rant on this - the only thing we are asking for is a 110v outlet, nothing more. We are at the office for 9 hours which is more than enough time even with an unmodified EVSE to recharge almost half of the range for less than a dollar a day. A whole row of 110v outlets could service many cars at the office without having to install costlier L2 EVSE charging equipment. Then charge a premium for those spots to cover the cost of the electricity. Simple solution giving your office building a green credential all in the process.

My dash stats after getting to work on this 20° blustery morning. Started with a full charge. Far cry from the 69 miles that I'd have left after the drive to work three months ago! Is there a thread somewhere on the record for lowest miles/highest bars remaining?

I guess there can be a winner in every category...

Finally got my i-MiEV to use its traction control logic. (I guess that's an achievement. It's very stable and behaved on slippery roads). I was backing up my snow-covered concrete driveway and it slipped near the top. The picture shows how well it handled. The other car would've been sideways and stuck. My brother's car didn't make the curve further down the driveway and slid sideways between a tree and a bush.

https://db.tt/1Bjy8J7M

There is an existing thread for worst mileage. Maybe revive it?

Robbw

Yup that's it with L2 preheat the car will just barely charge the current is the same as L1.

Mlucas,

You are so right about work charging just need a row of outdoor outlets.

The whole problem of work charging is the if I let you do it then what will I do when 4000 more people ask me ?

Of course this won't happen but it's the way building administrators think.

I once asked a security guard if I could charge on a 110 outlet and he said no, adding that everyone has to pay for his own gas....

In his mind the company would be paying for my gas and that's just not fair for everyone else. You can see where the thinking is rooted and I'm sure he is not the only person to think this. Even people who understand the economics probably have this and a little envy in the back of their mind.

It takes a forward thinking person with some decision making power to get the work charging issue headed in the right direction. I have had nothing but excuses at my work. I don't need to charge at work but I tried to get them to let me plug officially but they basically didn't want to deal with the issue.

I'm hoping as more ev's show up in he parking lot that I can get something going with some numbers to push for it. My first try didn't go too far.

Offering to pay just confuses people and backs them up against a wall. They have no idea what to charge you. Anyways I don't think that is the real issue. The cost of the electricity and the plug is really minimal.


I'm glad your "plug and pray" method worked out for you. Can I suggest that you tack a ev parking only sign to the wall beside your plug and keep pushing the boundaries ? Or is that too much ?


Don.....

DonDakin said:

Robbw

Yup that's it with L2 preheat the car will just barely charge the current is the same as L1.

Mlucas,

You are so right about work charging just need a row of outdoor outlets.

The whole problem of work charging is the if I let you do it then what will I do when 4000 more people ask me ?

Of course this won't happen but it's the way building administrators think.

I once asked a security guard if I could charge on a 110 outlet and he said no, adding that everyone has to pay for his own gas....

In his mind the company would be paying for my gas and that's just not fair for everyone else. You can see where the thinking is rooted and I'm sure he is not the only person to think this. Even people who understand the economics probably have this and a little envy in the back of their mind.

It takes a forward thinking person with some decision making power to get the work charging issue headed in the right direction. I have had nothing but excuses at my work. I don't need to charge at work but I tried to get them to let me plug officially but they basically didn't want to deal with the issue.

I'm hoping as more ev's show up in he parking lot that I can get something going with some numbers to push for it. My first try didn't go too far.

Offering to pay just confuses people and backs them up against a wall. They have no idea what to charge you. Anyways I don't think that is the real issue. The cost of the electricity and the plug is really minimal.


I'm glad your "plug and pray" method worked out for you. Can I suggest that you tack a ev parking only sign to the wall beside your plug and keep pushing the boundaries ? Or is that too much ?


Don.....

Click to expand...

Don, it seems the mindset is the same all over. I got the same reaction when I said I would pay for it, that really freaked them out. I really hate that argument, "..its not fair that you get your fuel for free..", when we all know how subsidized gas is, at least in the US. That means every tax payer is helping to foot the bill so everyone can have cheap gas. All we are asking for is less than a dollar a day which isn't much at all. The green cred companies, building management firms and parking companies could get from this type of publicity would pay for that dollar a day per car in itself. Putting solar panels on the roofs would help offset the cost in a long run ROI scenario. Sheesh, lets think out of the box, huh? I'm hoping we'll all be able to look back in ten years and laugh about how stupid this really is.

:lol: too funny about posting an EV Only spot. I should take a picture of where I park the car, there are usually 4x4 monster trucks and Suburban Assault Vehicles parked up in that area. I usually have to park in front of them. It's got to irk the crap out of them when they see me plugged in and they are paying $80-$100 to fill up those road whales.

RobbW said:

Is there a thread somewhere on the record for lowest miles/highest bars remaining?

Click to expand...

Here's that thread: Minimum Range Remaining. WeeJohn shows RR=35miles after a full charge (and this is in mild-climate California)!

JoeS said:

RobbW said:

Is there a thread somewhere on the record for lowest miles/highest bars remaining?

Click to expand...

Here's that thread: Minimum Range Remaining. WeeJohn shows RR=35miles after a full charge (and this is in mild-climate California)!

Click to expand...

It all depends on how you drive the car. Even with my 90% highway commute, I still get around 120 km/72 miles RR regularly. I get that because I drive between 80 - 90 kmh (48-54 mph) in a 100 kmh (62 mph) zone and I'm very frugal with the heating. If I drove at 100 kmh for the 45 km (27 mile) (27 minutes) commute (one way travel) I would arrive only 4 minutes faster than if I drove at 85 kmh (31 minutes). Those four minutes I've learned are very small, I can learn to slow down, enjoy the ride and save my range. The funny thing is, I usually catch up to all of those people that passed me in their gas guzzlers at the border crossing anyway. All they did was waste more money and put more CO2 in the atmosphere. Thanks.

RobbW, you've been awfully quiet lately. Wondering how you and your iMiEV are doing in this notable winter which, by some accounts, has seen a few cold records?

Sorry, all. Been busy with the holiday seasons and then the whole family got the flu and work really picked up, yadda yadda yadda! Yes, we experienced some extremely cold (nearly record lows) temperatures in the past few weeks. I was able to continue driving the Meepster through a good deal of it, even down into the sub-zero temps. I did notice a significant decrease in range at the coldest temps; nearly 40% decrease. I had to resort to extreme measures to ensure I made it to and from work. I received a 12V electric blanket for Christmas that I have been using (works great!). I have been layering warm outerwear. And I purchased a good pair of mittens to help keep my hands warm. For the drive into work, I preheat the car and keep the heat going until I drop off my kids and wife. Then I drop the temp to one notch above the green dot, the fan to auto, and the vent to defrost/feet to keep the windshield and front windows minimally clear. For the drive home, depending on how much range I used for the drive in, I often have to drive with the heat completely off. For these occasions, I bundle up in extreme cold weather gear with Hotmocs Neck Gaiter and T1 Fleece Beanie. I also pull on a pair of knee-length thermal socks and bought a pair of Kamik boots with thermal liners. I wear a fleece jacket under my winter jacket. With all this, I actually stay pretty warm and toasty. No complaints.

The only time I had to sadly leave the Meepster in the garage was on the very coldest days. Actual temps were forecast to be -19°F, which was flirting dangerously close to the minimum temp at which the i-MiEV will not start or charge. I drove our minivan that whole week and hated every mile of it! I am now back in the Meepster and loving it, especially when it snows. This little guy sticks to the road like no one's business! I'd rather drive the i-MiEV in the snow than the V6 4WD SUV I used to have!

My i-MiEV hated that -9 F. I usually use 1, maybe 2 bars going to work, but that day was 3 almost 4, and I LOST charge while it was sitting after it finished charging before I hit the preheat. Combining that with almost zero regen, less than 3 mi./kWh. I felt so bad for it, that night I removed the QC cooling servo and pumped 33 Degree F air into the battery when I pulled the car into the garage and kicked out the mower.

My biggest thing with winter driving is how cold my hands get. That day was when I broke out the gloves because I couldn't stand it anymore. Now I have no problem running without heat.

PV1 said:

My biggest thing with winter driving is how cold my hands get. That day was when I broke out the gloves because I couldn't stand it anymore. Now I have no problem running without heat.

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Yep. That's why I bought the mittens. I had a decent pair of gloves, but those just weren't cutting it. So, I bought mittens. However, even the mittens don't help for long after holding on to a freezing steering wheel for any length of time. I bought my mittens at Cabela's and paid a pretty penny for them. I was debating between a pair insulated with real down or a a pair insulated with PrimaSoft. I ended up going with the PrimaSoft because the down only came in a grey color and I wanted black. Now, I'm wishing I would have bought the down as they were warmer.

Robb and PV- you have my respect. To still prefer the i over an AWD SUV with nearly unlimited heat output in that kind of weather would strike anybody who hasn't spent time in an i as just plain crazy! From my temperate zone, it only comes across as perhaps just a bit too loyal.

I'm trying to bring my projectitits under control, and haven't checked recently if there's been any further dEVelopments in adding thermal storage to an i or improving insulation this winter. Anything warm to report?