Why buy/install a charging station?

[gatedad11]

Since one can have their EVSE cable adapted for about $300, and this can allow you to charge at Level II(if you have 240V power), why spend the monery for a full station? Assuming that you have 220-240V access, the station seems to do little more than what the EVSE upgrade can do. Is there a maeningful improvement that comes with the station purchase?

Thanks,
Lou

 

[Don]

One reason would be that it's nice to have a portable cable to take along for opportunity charging - If you have another EVSE at home, your modified OEM EVSE can be carried around in the car 24/7 and you won't have to coil it up and bag it each time you leave home after using it to charge. Plugging and unplugging, coiling the cord and packing it away is a pain

Another reason is there are other EVSE's which offer features the OEM unit doesn't. My home unit is an Open EVSE that I built from scratch and it is user selectable to charge at 6, 8, 10, 12, 14 and 16 amps (actually, all the way up to 20, but the car can't use that much) on either 120 or 240 volts. It also has a timer

Lastly, it's nice to have a spare, since your car is basically useless should the only one you have fail you at the least opportune time

Don

 

[Vike]

I wouldn't make too much of this, but it's probably worth mentioning that should you have problems with your charging system, using a non-approved 3rd party conversion cable can lead to a longer conversation with Mitsubishi. The whole EVSE business is apparently not quite as well settled as one would hope, leaving some wiggle room about exactly how compliant/compatible the various bits are. For less cost-sensitive buyers, the Eaton or Aerovironment Level 2 EVSE provide a solution that Mitsubishi has pre-cleared as fully compatible, regardless of how much more or less functional/compatible they really are.

 

[Don]

Actually, the OEM EVSE built by Panasonic is one unit that doesn't adhere all that closely to the universal J1772 standard - It doesn't do many of the checks required, plus it doesn't have built-in GFCI protection

I suppose there could be an aftermarket unit somewhere which is even less compliant than the one which came with the car, but I honestly don't know of one at the moment. I wouldn't worry too much about using any aftermarket EVSE which claims to be fully compliant with the standard - The EVSE cannot hurt your car or it's charging equipment and by US law, Mitsubishi cannot deny any warranty claims should you experience any sort of failure within the car. Of course, 'upgrading' your OEM EVSE does void it's warranty as soon as the unit is opened up, but that's a given . . . . you're modifying it so in effect, it's no longer the same unit they supplied with the car

Mitsubishi trying to steer you toward buying any 'Mitsubishi approved' EVSE would be akin to General Motors requiring you to use only Chevron gas in your new GM car, IMO

Don

 

[peterdambier]

My hobby - EVSE - do I really need one?

I am the lucky owner of an original Panasonic 230V/16A brick. I dont like to carry that 2000 Euros brick wherever I go charging and leave it alone for hours. That is why I have got a Voltec 230V/10A with a flashlight in the nozzle for only 350 Euros at an Opel (Ampera) garage. We live in Europe. That is why we only have 2 charging in the first place. We only have 230V in the socket.

I have tried 230V/6A with the Voltec but our i-MiEV would not charge. With 230V/10A it does and in the wild you dont know if those cables can carry more than 10A. The Schuko plug actually cannot. Nevertheless without an EVSE I could not charge our I-MiEV but I am still trying. I have cut the cable close to the EVSE and mounted a plug and socket so I can play with the lines. I still hope feeding a 1 kHz square wave form an Arduino and an amplifier will do the trick and teach the i-Miev how much to charge directly from the socket. After all we do have a GFI installed in most of the sockets.

 

[Don]

Peter,

You really need to look into building your own Open EVSE

www.openevse.com

With the latest firmware, you can select L2 charge currents (in 2 amp increments) between 6 and 30 amps, so no matter what socket you find to use, you can adjust your EVSE to suit the max current available at the plug - It would be *perfect* for 'charging in the wild' like you so often do. Just check the circuit breaker on any socket you find and then adjust your EVSE to charge at 2 amps less than the rating on the breaker . . . . your charging problems would all be solved

Don

 

[MLucas]

I bought the $850 Scneider because I didn't have time to build the OpenEVSE (and wait for the parts to arrive which were put on hold for awhile at that time) and having a new six year old in my house put a limit on my free time. My range busting commute absolutely required the L2 EVSE, I had no choice but to buy the EVSE. I was thinking about the EVSEUpgrade option, but I didn't have a spare EVSE to use while mine was being upgraded. Now I am glad that I did not upgrade my L1 EVSE, it works for what I use it for. I 'borrow' power* from my parking garage during the day and at 8A I'm not taking very much. The best reason to have the L2 is for preconditioning, the L1 doesn't precondition the car very well - its very limited for that use.



* I did ask if I could plug in and I waited like three months and sent supporting documentation but never got an answer back from the company in Omaha, Nebraska that operates the garage. There is a camera that is looking right at my car and I know that several parking employees and the building manager have seen my car plugged in. Been doing this since Septemeber and no one has said anything to me yet about it. I even offered to pay for it, again didn't hear anything. I just continue on and wait and see what happens.

 

[iDriver]

So, I picked up a GE WattStation from Lowes. I have no regrets
My wife and I enjoy pulling into the garage and simply hooking the car up to an existing, in-place charger, that is more than capable of charging our car. We don't have to drag the Mobile Charger out, or leave it in the garage.

Yes. $899 is alot to pay for convenience, but i'm always going to own an EV. So this made sense for us.

 

[peterdambier]

Don,

I have been looking into Open EVSE and I love it. I have learned a lot from them. Whatever comes out of my experiments I will share it.

 

[steeve]

I can only say that I had a Level 2 EVSE installed in my garage *only* because of the free EVSE from the EVProject. Cost me $177 (for the EVSE install) + $220 for the circuit/outlet (done by a different electrician). I've also upgraded my Leaf's EVSE via EVSEUpgrade.

I've used only free public EVSEs in the Atlanta area. I refuse to pay for this service in light of the exorbitant rates Blink wants to charge. If that comes down to a reasonable level, I'll throw-in. I've had the pleasure of experiencing my favorite public EVSEs being occupied the last time I tried to use them. Both times they were occupied by Leafs and both times it was evident that they needed to charge more than I did. Totally cool. :mrgreen:

More public EVSEs are being installed all the time; I hope this continues! If there has to be a revenue stream developed for this to happen on a larger scale (especially in regards to Fast DC Charging stations), I'm all for that...within reason, of course!

-Bob K.

 

[fresnomiev]

After reading through these responses it is still unclear to me if the EVSE upgrade would definitely be a 'no-no' from a warranty perspective. I'm referring to whether Mitsubishi could/would know that you were using the EVSE upgrade to charge your car rather than an 'approved' level 2 charging system. Obviously if they saw the actual cable they would know, and the cable itself would no longer be warrantied, but is there any way that they would otherwise know if there was a problem in the charging system? As charging stations become more common, owners will be charging them from a variety of sources - there would be no possible way for them to say that a problem existed in the onboard charger or BMS or batteries due to the EVSE upgrade. Correct?
Ken

 

[archie_b]

If having a second EVSE to install is an option, check Ebay. Right now there is a level 1 EVSE for $398.00. The advantage of this, and most level 1 units, is that it is rated at 12 amps versus the 8 amps of the Mitsubishi EVSE. That means you can use the same 110V outlet, so no installation costs, is fully compatiable with the i-Miev and will reduce charging times by about 1/3.

220V level 2 is still faster, but a 12 amp level 1 EVSE can reduce your charge time at very little expense. It also allows you to keep the OEM charger in the car without having to take everything apart each time you want a charger in the car.

 

[psyflyjohn]

I bought a GE charge station when I purchased the Miev. It's positioned so that it can service two cars if necessary. My next car may well a plug in hybrid, which will also use the charger. Being a level 2 charger, it can easily service both cars when necessary.

 

[Don]

220V level 2 is still faster, but a 12 amp level 1 EVSE can reduce your charge time at very little expense. It also allows you to keep the OEM charger in the car without having to take everything apart each time you want a charger in the car.

Actually, it's 240 volts. Your 120 volt circuits are half of the 240 single phase coming to our homes

The upgraded OEM EVSE costs less than the $398 Level 1 charger you mention, so it's a far better buy - Why spend $400 to get only Level 1 when less than that gets you both L1 and L2? Not only do you have your choice of either 120/240 at 12 amps when charging at home, but you also have those same choices opportunity charging at work or wherever you go if you take the EVSE with you

To answer fresnomiev's questions, the onboard charger built into the car is rated at 3300 watts and can recharge using any voltage from about 90 to 265 AC, so it doesn't care if you use 120 at 8 amps or 12 or 240 at 8 amps or 12 . . . . to get the full 3300 watt maximum recharge, you need to feed it about 13.5 amps at 240 volts. Any 20 amp Level 2 EVSE will allow it to recharge at the maximum 3300 watts. The EVSE upgrade to 120/240 @ 12 amps will give you a maximum of about 2900 watts and is a perfectly safe thing to do and it works just as well as the stock EVSE did before it was modified - It just allows you to recharge faster . . . . LOTS faster if you use it on 240 volts. The same Panasonic OEM EVSE which is set to 120 @ 8 amps for cars bought in the USA is already set for 12 amps if you bought your car in Canada and that same unit is set to be ONLY a 240 volt Level 2 EVSE in the rest of the world - All the cars use the same onboard charger that we have in our USA cars

There are more people recharging using something other than the stock 120V 8 amp EVSE than there are who use it, so your car certainly won't mind joining the rest of us!

Don

 

[fresnomiev]

Thanks Don, good reminder that Mitsubishi has modified the 'standard' Level 2 unit down to 110V for the U.S. market. We're just trying to bring it back to that standard with the EVSE upgrade!

 

[jray3]

I've used only free public EVSEs in the Atlanta area. I refuse to pay for this service in light of the exorbitant rates Blink wants to charge. If that comes down to a reasonable level, I'll throw-in.
More public EVSEs are being installed all the time; I hope this continues! If there has to be a revenue stream developed for this to happen on a larger scale (especially in regards to Fast DC Charging stations), I'm all for that...within reason, of course!
-Bob K.

Well, what pricing would you consider reasonable? Blink is now $1/hr for all effective purposes, as they have waived the BlinkPlus membership fees for 2013. https://www.blinknetwork.com/membership.html#page=1

At $1/hr for about 11 miles of range on L2 (3.3.kw, 0.3 kwh/mile), that's the equivalent of $3.64/gallon gas in a 40 mpg car. The current average US pump price for regular unleaded is $3.78. Coincidence? I've done this calc a number of times in the past 18 months, and it's always in the ballpark for fuel price parity. To me, that's a bargain, because of course, the iMiEV replaced our small second car, not the family minivan. This means that if it's too far for the i, it's now a 20 mpg trip!

No doubt that Blink has made many mistakes, but here in Seattle region, the L2 fee-based public EVSE have greatly extended the practical daily range of my car, and fees are necessary for long-term success. It's either that, or "Sorry Mr. Jones, we only validate charging sessions if you buy a Venti or larger, and not for a Grande or smaller." :?

 

[JoeS]

... the L2 fee-based public EVSE have greatly extended the practical daily range of my car, and fees are necessary for long-term success.

A nice by-product of fees is that it keeps the plug-in hybrid freebie moochers away, allowing better access for those of us with 'real' electric cars.

 

[iDriver]

A nice by-product of fees is that it keeps the plug-in hybrid freebie moochers away, allowing better access for those of us with 'real' electric cars.

YES! We have free L2 Chargers here at my work place. It's now anything but certain if their will be a spot available for me to charge on any given day thanks to a recent rash of Plugin Prius's showing up.

They've limited the parking time to a max of 4 hours, but still. That damn Prius never needs the charge, it just wants it. To make matters worse, it takes about 45 MINUTES for it to charge to full. Do the drivers come out and move the car after it's full? NO! They park it for the entire time. It's crazy.

I'd be ok with the charging stations remaining free, but you should be required to be actively drawing power. Once you're not drawing any power (this goes for me as well) there is no functional difference between an ICE vehicle parked in a charging spot, and an EV or PHEV parked in the same spot. Get out!