Wheels, Rims, and Tires

[RobertC]

For the newbie to iMiev- I have had a difficult time reading this thread.
What I was hoping to find in here is a good winter tire for my 2012 ES.
It seems like all the experimentation in here has done you all good.
Any advice for the newbie?

Here is member RobbW's post describing how he dealt with last winter in Elgin, Illinois. The MiEV does well in the snow with the factory all season Dunlop Enasave tires. I hope this helps.

Sorry, all. Been busy with the holiday seasons and then the whole family got the flu and work really picked up, yadda yadda yadda! Yes, we experienced some extremely cold (nearly record lows) temperatures in the past few weeks. I was able to continue driving the Meepster through a good deal of it, even down into the sub-zero temps. I did notice a significant decrease in range at the coldest temps; nearly 40% decrease. I had to resort to extreme measures to ensure I made it to and from work. I received a 12V electric blanket for Christmas that I have been using (works great!). I have been layering warm outerwear. And I purchased a good pair of mittens to help keep my hands warm. For the drive into work, I preheat the car and keep the heat going until I drop off my kids and wife. Then I drop the temp to one notch above the green dot, the fan to auto, and the vent to defrost/feet to keep the windshield and front windows minimally clear. For the drive home, depending on how much range I used for the drive in, I often have to drive with the heat completely off. For these occasions, I bundle up in extreme cold weather gear with Hotmocs Neck Gaiter and T1 Fleece Beanie. I also pull on a pair of knee-length thermal socks and bought a pair of Kamik boots with thermal liners. I wear a fleece jacket under my winter jacket. With all this, I actually stay pretty warm and toasty. No complaints.

The only time I had to sadly leave the Meepster in the garage was on the very coldest days. Actual temps were forecast to be -19°F, which was flirting dangerously close to the minimum temp at which the i-MiEV will not start or charge. I drove our minivan that whole week and hated every mile of it! I am now back in the Meepster and loving it, especially when it snows. This little guy sticks to the road like no one's business! I'd rather drive the i-MiEV in the snow than the V6 4WD SUV I used to have!

 

[melloyello]

For the newbie to iMiev- I have had a difficult time reading this thread.
What I was hoping to find in here is a good winter tire for my 2012 ES.
It seems like all the experimentation in here has done you all good.
Any advice for the newbie?

I have no winter tire experience but I do see 3 winter tire options right now:

option 1: stock wheels + stock dunlop enasave all season tires
option 2: stock wheels + dunlop graspic ds-3 winter tires in stock size (145/65R15 front & 175/60R15 rear)
option 3: 15x5.5 mini cooper wheels + 10mm spacers + extended studs + open-ended lugs + michelin x-ice xi3 LRR winter tires (185/55R15 front & 185/60R15 rear)

option 3 is a lot of work so I wouldn't necessarily recommend it for a newbie to diy auto work, but the benefit is that once the work is done, it's lot easier to get more tires/wheels afterwards (i.e separate summer/winter sets, spare tires, etc.). You can also wait and see - maybe we'll find a better wheel option that doesn't require spacers, etc.

 

[melloyello]

Another update: I managed to get 10mm spacers for the fronts, and got the extended studs installed on the rears, so I put 8mm spacers on the rears for now. It turns out the rear drum brakes limit how long of a stud you can install because the backing plate for the brakes are in the way, and you can't remove them without removing the wheel hubs. So I went and got an angle grinder with a cutting wheel to shorten the extended studs down to about 60mm, which also allows the use of the oem lug nuts again. At 60mm, you can just barely get it into the hubs if you do it just right, and you don't have to remove the brake shoes, etc.



The fronts, after a week of use with 8mm spacers shows just a bit of wear through the masking tape, but the underlying strut looks ok. Still, I switched it to the 10mm spacers for now just for peace of mind. It does look like it sticks out from the fender a bit more though:



Here's a link to the 10mm spacers I bought. Free shipping, so it ended up costing the same as the ones I got previously from ezaccessory.com:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D022GV6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[melloyello]

Sound like they seated ok, but 150 ft-lbs is a lot of torque to seat them! It's been a while but I think I had to use a lot of torque replacing very similar lugs a while back on my truck.

It turns out using the right spacer helps out a lot here. After spending all day struggling with 150ft-lbs not being able to fully seat the studs in the rear, I went to pick up a 12mm washer, some 5/8in nuts, and a big 1/2in washer, and found that using that set as the spacer between the lug nut and the wheel hub, the studs seated without even hitting 100ft-lbs. Definitely could have saved myself a lot of effort there with $2 worth of hardware...

 

[GdB]

Another update: I managed to get 10mm spacers for the fronts, and got the extended studs installed on the rears, so I put 8mm spacers on the rears for now. It turns out the rear drum brakes limit how long of a stud you can install because the backing plate for the brakes are in the way, and you can't remove them without removing the wheel hubs. So I went and got an angle grinder with a cutting wheel to shorten the extended studs down to about 60mm, which also allows the use of the oem lug nuts again. At 60mm, you can just barely get it into the hubs if you do it just right, and you don't have to remove the brake shoes, etc.

https://flic.kr/p/paF7if

Impressive progress! Do you need a pay account to link from flic.kr ?

TIPs for cutting studs: put a nut on before you cut off some. Grind or file a little chamfer around the edge and file down the thread termination. After working and cleanning up the end, removing the nut will help finish it much easier.

 

[melloyello]

Nope, you can link photos from flickr for free. They even provide the code for you and a variety of image sizes to choose from, so it's apparently encouraged.

 

[NeilBlanchard]

When testing for range, one can measure the route in two different ways: a GPS or Google Maps. This is how I calibrate my odometer - and different diameter tires can make a fairly significant difference in the indicated distance on the odometer.

 

[GdB]

When testing for range, one can measure the route in two different ways: a GPS or Google Maps. This is how I calibrate my odometer - and different diameter tires can make a fairly significant difference in the indicated distance on the odometer.

That's what I was trying to explain to RobertC, because there should have been an approximately 2% correction applied to the odometer reading. Was it EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY the same route? The odometer reading were within 0.5% but maybe the tires were that close in diameter. The difference between worn and new should be closer to 2%. Even with big pressure difference should not affect diameter that much with radials. Each tire manufacturer might be a bit off from the stated size so that could be a factor.

 

[RobertC]

When testing for range, one can measure the route in two different ways: a GPS or Google Maps. This is how I calibrate my odometer - and different diameter tires can make a fairly significant difference in the indicated distance on the odometer.

That's what I was trying to explain to RobertC, because there should have been an approximately 2% correction applied to the odometer reading. Was it EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY the same route? The odometer reading were within 0.5% but maybe the tires were that close in diameter. The difference between worn and new should be closer to 2%. Even with big pressure difference should not affect diameter that much with radials. Each tire manufacturer might be a bit off from the stated size so that could be a factor.

In my test, the vehicle's trip odometer measured:
42.5 miles with worn out Dunlops (all three runs)
42.3 miles with new Yokohamas (all four runs)
42.4 miles with new Dunlops (all three runs)

I measured the remaining battery state-of-charge driving the exact same route at the same speed. With the new Yokohama tires I had an average of 10% less charge than I did with the new Dunlop tires.
There are many differences in the two tires, including tread depth, tread width and tread design. Also the Dunop tires are rated Low Rolling Resistance and the Yokohama tires are not.

 

[GdB]

The odometer is not automatically right. It needs a correction depending on tire diameter which is different new and used.

 

[RobertC]

The odometer is not automatically right. It needs a correction depending on tire diameter which is different new and used.

The Mitsubishi i Electric Vehicle has wheel speed sensors in all four wheels. The electronic pulses sent from the four wheel speed sensors are used by the vehicle's computer to operate the Antilock Braking System (ABS), Active Stability Control (ASC), as well as the speedometer and odometer.
Since we do not have access to the programming of the car's computer, we do not know how the pulses sent from the four wheel sensors are used to determine speed or mileage.

 

[PV1]

Finally got new rear tires. After 2 months of dealing with two different places, I finally finished up with the dealer on my warranty claim on the original Dunlop tires. They knocked the tires down to about $60 each (where they should be, IMO) from their usual $140-150. Since I have newer Continentals on the front, I only had the rears mounted and balanced, and the new front tires put in the car.

I'm still working with the other place to get a refund on my rear Continentals (they were too small for the computer to be happy). Last I heard, Continental rejected my case and sent them back to the installer. I'm about ready to go pick them up and sell them myself :twisted: . They're practically brand new, with about 20 miles on them.

A full set of Dunlops goes for over $600. :shock:

 

[RobertC]

A full set of Dunlops goes for over $600. :shock:

$548.00 plus shipping from Tire Rack. It was just under $600.00 total for me. I have saved on many things driving an electric vehicle, however tires was not one of them.

 

[JoeS]

RobertC, once again thank you for posting your data.

... Also the Dunop tires are rated Low Rolling Resistance and the Yokohama tires are not.

Unfortunately, I was led astray by Yokohama's claims. Ref: http://media.unitedfuture-yoko.com.s3.amazonaws.com/1363726448-AVID-ENVigor-Bulletin-0113.pdf

"ADVANCED SILICA COMPOUND
Delivers ultra-low rolling resistance for increased fuel efficiency, without sacrificing treadlife, comfort or grip on dry, wet or snow-covered roads."

 

[sventchik]

waow ! you have gold tyres.... 600 USD !!!

In europe, the 145.65.15 Pirelli P1 verde cost 60€ /piece ; the Continental EcoContact EP cost 59 € and the Dunlop Enasave2030 cost 68€

For rear, the 175.55.15 Pirelli P1 verde cost 61€ /piece ; the Continental EcoContact 3 cost 63 € and the Dunlop Enasave2030 cost 74€

 

[GdB]

waow ! you have gold tyres.... 600 USD !!!

In europe, the 145.65.15 Pirelli P1 verde cost 60€ /piece ; the Continental EcoContact EP cost 59 € and the Dunlop Enasave2030 cost 68€

For rear, the 175.55.15 Pirelli P1 verde cost 61€ /piece ; the Continental EcoContact 3 cost 63 € and the Dunlop Enasave2030 cost 74€

I never pay more than that for high quality 195/65-15 tires from tirerack. Not enough competition for i-Miev tires in US.

 

[olagon]

Sorry if this info is in this thread. But to be clear, if I buy the EXACT same tire sizes, will I run into any problems? For instance, Yokohama AVID ENVIgor comes in the same exact sizes for almost 50% less. These work?

 

[PV1]

You'll (presumably) have a decent loss in range, but they'd work. Between the recent cooldown and getting my rear Dunlops replaced with new, I lost about 7 miles RR, though I'm still getting 4 mi./kWh. :| Joe reported a quite noticeable loss in range with Yokohamas.

Continental used to make the proper size tires for the i-MiEV. Now, they only carry the front. How many miles did you get on your Dunlops and how much tread's left?

 

[RobertC]

Sorry if this info is in this thread. But to be clear, if I buy the EXACT same tire sizes, will I run into any problems? For instance, Yokohama AVID ENVIgor comes in the same exact sizes for almost 50% less. These work?

I measured the remaining battery state-of-charge driving the exact same route at the same speed. With the new Yokohama tires I had an average of 10% less charge than I did with the new Dunlop tires.
There are many differences in the two tires, including tread depth, tread width and tread design. Also the Dunop tires are rated Low Rolling Resistance and the Yokohama tires are not.

I ran on new Yokohama tires for a week before returning them, and did not see any difference in the ride or handling compared to the Dunop tires. I returned the Yokohama tires because they resulted in 10% reduced range compared to new Dunlop tires. Forum member JoeS had a similar range loss experience with the Yokohama tires, and is still running on them.

 

[NeilBlanchard]

My brother has the Yokohama tires on the front, and the stock tires on the rear. He has not noticed any change in the typical range.