bezzeb said:
391 is way too high! i suspect damage in the waffle plate with the HV diodes and transistors. Were you are to ring it out with the diode check function of the voltmeter?
The Troubleshooting and Repair for On-board Charger (OBC) Thread
- Thread starter kiev
- Start date
Help Support Mitsubishi i-MiEV Forum:
391 is way too high! i suspect damage in the waffle plate with the HV diodes and transistors. Were you are to ring it out with the diode check function of the voltmeter?
Oh yeah much better--that is fully charged, it's not gonna charge when full. What is the error code now?
danieldjan
New member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2020
- Messages
- 2
Hello everyone,
Even this is my first post, I am often here visiting as a guest reading fantastic posts. First of all thanks to you all for creating such an great information source! Now onto the issue. I am owning Peugeot ION 2011 and IMIEV 2015.
2011 Peugeot ION will not charge anymore at 220VAC. Fast charging does work. When I connect the 220V charger, it tries to charge and after 5 seconds it stops. On CHAdeMO car is charging without a problem.
This will perhaps will not be a big problem in normal country, but since I live in a country where in total there is 300 electric cars on street, my only hope to repair is this forum. I did drive a car to official Peugeot garage. They did check and told there is no single error on car, and why it does not charge, they do not know.
If the Peugeot would not like to help, I decide to take all action into my hands. So, I did carefully read all posts on this issue, did all checks, but all seems to be ok.
- New power cable for charging
- 12V Aux battery is new
- OBC and EV-ECU relays in the fuse box, ok
- OBC power supply, ok
We open inverter check all plates, all seems to be perfect, nothing damaged or blown off (visually check).
When we measure output from inverter at the charging start. All starts well when we connect to charger, output is measured at 340V and after 5 seconds charging stops, output is 0V. The situation reminds to situation like you connect 100% charged battery to charger, and the system send signal that battery is full and stops charging.
When the last charging was in progress, I did hear strange sound coming from bottom of the car, similar like something is sparkling/cracking in each 3-4 seconds (like some relay is on/off constantly). After this charging process was finished, I was not able to charge any more on 220VAC
On the other side, I have IMIEV working perfectly and I presume I can take down some parts for testing. I just need some advice from where to start. Is it possible just to change some parts so I can identify where the problem is? Maybe before this action (in order not to damage any IMIEV part) just to give me more idea on where to look for probable cause of problem. I am not expert in electric, but I will find one for sure.
What next step would you recommend? Let me know what other information you require.
Many thanks to all,
Daniel
Even this is my first post, I am often here visiting as a guest reading fantastic posts. First of all thanks to you all for creating such an great information source! Now onto the issue. I am owning Peugeot ION 2011 and IMIEV 2015.
2011 Peugeot ION will not charge anymore at 220VAC. Fast charging does work. When I connect the 220V charger, it tries to charge and after 5 seconds it stops. On CHAdeMO car is charging without a problem.
This will perhaps will not be a big problem in normal country, but since I live in a country where in total there is 300 electric cars on street, my only hope to repair is this forum. I did drive a car to official Peugeot garage. They did check and told there is no single error on car, and why it does not charge, they do not know.
If the Peugeot would not like to help, I decide to take all action into my hands. So, I did carefully read all posts on this issue, did all checks, but all seems to be ok.
- New power cable for charging
- 12V Aux battery is new
- OBC and EV-ECU relays in the fuse box, ok
- OBC power supply, ok
We open inverter check all plates, all seems to be perfect, nothing damaged or blown off (visually check).
When we measure output from inverter at the charging start. All starts well when we connect to charger, output is measured at 340V and after 5 seconds charging stops, output is 0V. The situation reminds to situation like you connect 100% charged battery to charger, and the system send signal that battery is full and stops charging.
When the last charging was in progress, I did hear strange sound coming from bottom of the car, similar like something is sparkling/cracking in each 3-4 seconds (like some relay is on/off constantly). After this charging process was finished, I was not able to charge any more on 220VAC
On the other side, I have IMIEV working perfectly and I presume I can take down some parts for testing. I just need some advice from where to start. Is it possible just to change some parts so I can identify where the problem is? Maybe before this action (in order not to damage any IMIEV part) just to give me more idea on where to look for probable cause of problem. I am not expert in electric, but I will find one for sure.
What next step would you recommend? Let me know what other information you require.
Many thanks to all,
Daniel
Howdy Daniel,
Sorry to hear that you are having a problem, but maybe it can be repaired. We need to know more about how the car is responding. You said that CHAdeMO charging works, but that EVSE charging fails.
Does the car go to READY in a normal manner and run and drive okay?
Does the 12V aux battery voltage get up to 14.4 when the car is in READY?
Did you check the 20A fuse underneath the small cover plate of the Motor Control Unit aka inverter? Usually that has blown if there has been a failure in the OBC, and the 12V aux will not be charging while in READY.
Based upon the crackling sound you describe coming from under the car in the pack, i would suspect that one or more of the main contactors has been damaged by intermittent holding when current was flowing. This could damage the precious metal surfaces of the contact points. The other idea is that the pre-charge resistor has been overheated and gone open circuit. But if any of these has occurred then the car will not go to READY.
take care,
kenny
Sorry to hear that you are having a problem, but maybe it can be repaired. We need to know more about how the car is responding. You said that CHAdeMO charging works, but that EVSE charging fails.
Does the car go to READY in a normal manner and run and drive okay?
Does the 12V aux battery voltage get up to 14.4 when the car is in READY?
Did you check the 20A fuse underneath the small cover plate of the Motor Control Unit aka inverter? Usually that has blown if there has been a failure in the OBC, and the 12V aux will not be charging while in READY.
Based upon the crackling sound you describe coming from under the car in the pack, i would suspect that one or more of the main contactors has been damaged by intermittent holding when current was flowing. This could damage the precious metal surfaces of the contact points. The other idea is that the pre-charge resistor has been overheated and gone open circuit. But if any of these has occurred then the car will not go to READY.
take care,
kenny
This post is related to the problem that ZetaFunction is having with his OBC failing to start up the LV supplies on the bottom board.
i have been puzzled by how the feedback worked to regulate the ~16V created by the big secondary on the transformer T302, so i have been doing some research and made a simulation based upon notes from the datasheet. It's hard to believe all the stuff they crammed inside that little 5-pin voltage regulator device.
The Red LED represents the photodiode of the photocoupler.
The sim is switching the FET at 75kHz with a 10V pulse at about 10% duty cycle. i could vary the duty cycle to raise or lower the buss voltage; i did it just enough to understand how it works and then stopped--didn't try to tune it for a perfect match as i had to manually change duty cycle.
On the OBC bottom board when the photodiode comes on, it pulls down pin 2 of the NJM2369 chip, which cuts off the PWM to the FET. This occurs when the internal NPN transistor is turned ON by the internal opAmp when the rail voltage goes above the desired set point and raises the voltage across the 3.9k resistor (call it R2) which is the non-inverting junction. Then when the FET is OFF, the buss voltage begins to bleed off until such time that the photodiode is no longer ON and as the R2 voltage drops below the 2.5Vref at the inverting input. When the photodiode is OFF, then the voltage at pin 2 of the NJM can rise back up to cause the PWM switching to occur again. So this device provides a feedback loop to watch and control the 16V buss.
i have been tracing the other photocouplers looking for some connection that might be causing your issue, but so far no luck.
i have looked upstream from the 16V regulator at the "loads" but haven't figured it out other than if something in the waffle plate could be pulling it down. The "ground" of the isolated 16V supply is floating with respect to the 12V battery ground. It actually connects the negative side of the C845 to the negative side of the HV DC from the AC rectifier and the negative of the 3 big electrolytic caps. The positive side connects to the rail of the push-pull drivers for the PFC switching FETS in the waffle plate. i'm thinking that maybe something else is causing the LV supplies from starting, but i'm grasping at straws...
[edit: the screenshot clipped some of the numbers, the cap voltage is 19.07 and the resistor at the top is 1Ω ]
i have been puzzled by how the feedback worked to regulate the ~16V created by the big secondary on the transformer T302, so i have been doing some research and made a simulation based upon notes from the datasheet. It's hard to believe all the stuff they crammed inside that little 5-pin voltage regulator device.
The Red LED represents the photodiode of the photocoupler.
The sim is switching the FET at 75kHz with a 10V pulse at about 10% duty cycle. i could vary the duty cycle to raise or lower the buss voltage; i did it just enough to understand how it works and then stopped--didn't try to tune it for a perfect match as i had to manually change duty cycle.
On the OBC bottom board when the photodiode comes on, it pulls down pin 2 of the NJM2369 chip, which cuts off the PWM to the FET. This occurs when the internal NPN transistor is turned ON by the internal opAmp when the rail voltage goes above the desired set point and raises the voltage across the 3.9k resistor (call it R2) which is the non-inverting junction. Then when the FET is OFF, the buss voltage begins to bleed off until such time that the photodiode is no longer ON and as the R2 voltage drops below the 2.5Vref at the inverting input. When the photodiode is OFF, then the voltage at pin 2 of the NJM can rise back up to cause the PWM switching to occur again. So this device provides a feedback loop to watch and control the 16V buss.
i have been tracing the other photocouplers looking for some connection that might be causing your issue, but so far no luck.
i have looked upstream from the 16V regulator at the "loads" but haven't figured it out other than if something in the waffle plate could be pulling it down. The "ground" of the isolated 16V supply is floating with respect to the 12V battery ground. It actually connects the negative side of the C845 to the negative side of the HV DC from the AC rectifier and the negative of the 3 big electrolytic caps. The positive side connects to the rail of the push-pull drivers for the PFC switching FETS in the waffle plate. i'm thinking that maybe something else is causing the LV supplies from starting, but i'm grasping at straws...
[edit: the screenshot clipped some of the numbers, the cap voltage is 19.07 and the resistor at the top is 1Ω ]
That's great news that you got it running again.
By recuperation i'm thinking that you are talking about regeneration, or regen, that occurs when letting off the throttle while the car is moving, and the motor is operated as a generator to charge the pack and slow down the car.
That can be caused by worn-out tires, or mis-matched tire sizes between the front and rear. The same size ratio as when new from the OEM is required or it won't allow regen. Other factors might include a Full state of charge, cold temperature, air pressure in tires, etc. Maybe there will be a DTC stored in the EV-ECU to help find the issue.
By recuperation i'm thinking that you are talking about regeneration, or regen, that occurs when letting off the throttle while the car is moving, and the motor is operated as a generator to charge the pack and slow down the car.
That can be caused by worn-out tires, or mis-matched tire sizes between the front and rear. The same size ratio as when new from the OEM is required or it won't allow regen. Other factors might include a Full state of charge, cold temperature, air pressure in tires, etc. Maybe there will be a DTC stored in the EV-ECU to help find the issue.
DBMandrake
Well-known member
Recuperation means regeneration yes. Most German language speaking EV drivers seem to prefer this word even when speaking in English. 
I agree with what you've suggested - mismatched tyre sizes will severely limit regeneration, as will being fully charged. I can't off the top of my head think of a fault that would cause "no" regeneration. The closest would be a gear selector fault putting it into C mode, but that would show on the dashboard.
I agree with what you've suggested - mismatched tyre sizes will severely limit regeneration, as will being fully charged. I can't off the top of my head think of a fault that would cause "no" regeneration. The closest would be a gear selector fault putting it into C mode, but that would show on the dashboard.
danieldjan
New member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2020
- Messages
- 2
kiev said:
Hello Kenny,
On very beginning, many thanks for your wish to help. I realize now that I am not alone. Regarding your suggestions:
Car go to READY in a normal manner and run and drive. All is totally normal, and I am driving it like this more than 20 days.
The 12V aux battery voltage get up to 14.3-14.4 when the car is in READY, battery is 3 months old, so almost new. This was first issue that I did check (I follow all instructions on first page of this thread).
I did not check the 20A fuse of MCU, since the car 12V is charging, and car does not have any error.
Both suggestion for the main contactors and pre-charge resistor I did not take under probable cause since the car was going in READY and drives normally.
Even I am Biotechnology engineer and not specialist for EV, I first did read all post in this thread, to try to make repair without asking for help. The thing which is making me trouble is that there is no singe code with error in system, car is running normally and fast charging without a problem, so I am like a blind man having no idea where to look for possible problem. The only place I did not look for a problem is in metal box on bottom side of car, in centre, where the cable from inventor is going in since I was worry not to make a problem if I can not seal it properly after opening. Since the crackling is coming (I guess) from this part, my question is if there is rationale to open and look for a possible problem down there?
Also, the car acts when I start charging like the battery is 100% full. Maybe a stupid question, but, how the system controls and stops charging of battery? Can I look there for possible cause of problem?
Many thanks in advance for reply, any suggestion will be valuable.
Daniel
i'm not understanding which metal box you mean--is it the main battery pack or the OBC? Can you point to a picture of the item from post #1 of this thread?
When does the crackling sound occur--during EVVSE charging attempts or all the time during START or READY?
i would recommend to remove the top cover of the OBC and take a look for damaged capacitors on the AC input path, either on the top board or bottom board doghouse areas.
For example look for something like this on the black rectangular cap in the potted area,
Good
Bad
When does the crackling sound occur--during EVVSE charging attempts or all the time during START or READY?
i would recommend to remove the top cover of the OBC and take a look for damaged capacitors on the AC input path, either on the top board or bottom board doghouse areas.
For example look for something like this on the black rectangular cap in the potted area,
Good
Bad
coulomb
Well-known member
Some capacitors can make faint crackling noises. The 2.2 μF 275 VAC gray film capacitors in Elcon charrgers used to do this. Replacing them with new blue versions (the color may correlate with the manufacturer) solves that problem.
Of course, it could also be something breaking down due to moisture or other causes.
Of course, it could also be something breaking down due to moisture or other causes.
i've been wanting to clean up the first page to make it more useful to find stuff without having to read thru this whole mess.
today i read thru this thread and moved copies of lots of pictures from the body to a Pitcures section in the first post, but now it is a huge post.
i had somewhat of an index in post #2, but it needs cleaning up and better organization.
Post #3 i had thought to put all the schematic drawings and replace all the handwritten sketches with nice line drawings (work in progress).
i have a spot in post #5 that could be used as the picture displaying spot and move them out of #1, or move nearly all of #1 to #5, and rewrite #1 more as a summary with the benefit of all that we have seen, heard and learned from so many contributors over the past few years.
So i'm open to ideas, suggestions and advice on what might help folks having problems across the wide spectrum of people's knowledge and skills with respect to electricity.
let the good times roll,
today i read thru this thread and moved copies of lots of pictures from the body to a Pitcures section in the first post, but now it is a huge post.
i had somewhat of an index in post #2, but it needs cleaning up and better organization.
Post #3 i had thought to put all the schematic drawings and replace all the handwritten sketches with nice line drawings (work in progress).
i have a spot in post #5 that could be used as the picture displaying spot and move them out of #1, or move nearly all of #1 to #5, and rewrite #1 more as a summary with the benefit of all that we have seen, heard and learned from so many contributors over the past few years.
So i'm open to ideas, suggestions and advice on what might help folks having problems across the wide spectrum of people's knowledge and skills with respect to electricity.
let the good times roll,
eldenh
Well-known member
My OBC failed with one of the snubber capacitors ruptured and the MCU fuse blown. I repaired them and still have the alarm lights. It now charges the traction battery when plugged in, but the auxiliary battery doesn't get charged. There are two codes: U1111 and P0A09. As I was reading thru this I read about the extended warranty. So I called the dealer and inquired about getting it replaced and have been informed that since I had worked on the OBC I wouldn't be covered so it would cost me $5k+! :shock: It doesn't look feasible to get the bottom cover off with the OBC in the car, so will be removing it to get to the dc-dc converter. If the fuse is the problem, it should be and easy fix. However, I expect it won't be that simple. What should I be checking in the dc-dc converter?
Elden
Elden
That's a bummer. You could put the old fuse and blown caps back in there, and take it to another dealer. They aren't likely going to open the OBC covers to inspect anything. They will try to charge it and inspect the MCU fuse and call it done.
The DCDC board is shown in picture #6 in the first post of this thread. There is an input fuse and an output fuse. The big white wire of the output runs up directly to the aux battery positive terminal. The black connector has a locking tab feature.
Hopefully it is just a fuse.
The DCDC board is shown in picture #6 in the first post of this thread. There is an input fuse and an output fuse. The big white wire of the output runs up directly to the aux battery positive terminal. The black connector has a locking tab feature.
Hopefully it is just a fuse.
eldenh
Well-known member
Where can I find the circuit diagram for the dc-dc converter?
eldenh
Well-known member
I got the OBC out, removed the dc-dc converter cover and have tested both fuses and they are OK. There is no visible damage. What can I test?
Did you check the fusible links on the red battery positive terminal cover? One of the two big white cables is from the DC/DC, not sure where the other one goes.
The U-code is a generic CAN buss not working code, Display CAN time-out/Not equipped,ETACS-ECU;
P0A09 is Aux charging fault of DC/DC converter. Here is the troubleshooting page:
http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/i-miev/online/Service_Manual/2012/54/html/M154920520002300ENG.HTM
Aux charging wiring diagram:
http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/i-miev/online/Service_Manual/2012/90/html/M190103680001600ENG.HTM
What is the age and condition of the 12V aux battery? If the plates are covered with sulfate then it won't take a charge even if the DC/DC output voltage goes to 14.4V.
The U-code is a generic CAN buss not working code, Display CAN time-out/Not equipped,ETACS-ECU;
P0A09 is Aux charging fault of DC/DC converter. Here is the troubleshooting page:
http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/i-miev/online/Service_Manual/2012/54/html/M154920520002300ENG.HTM
Aux charging wiring diagram:
http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/i-miev/online/Service_Manual/2012/90/html/M190103680001600ENG.HTM
What is the age and condition of the 12V aux battery? If the plates are covered with sulfate then it won't take a charge even if the DC/DC output voltage goes to 14.4V.
eldenh
Well-known member
The fuse links check OK. The battery was original and has died. It may have contributed to the OBC failure. I believe that the snubber cap shorted when the charging cycle ended. That caused the MCU fuse to blow and produced a significant electro magnetic pulse within the OBC box. It didn't blow a fuse in the dc-dc converter, but caused something to fail. It may have been pretty warm in there as the 12v battery wasn't coming up to voltage. There are no visible signs of damage on the board and everything I've checked with an ohmmeter looks normal. Without test equipment to troubleshoot the board, I suspect the best option at this stage is to replace the pc board. It is a Nichicon #PA4091RP60. I sent an inquiry to Nichicon about how to test and how to purchase a replacement, but have no reply yet.
If anyone has one of those boards to sell, I am interested.
Elden
If anyone has one of those boards to sell, I am interested.
Elden
