Parts needed for ChaDeMo upgrade for non equiped cars

[Joel_1885]

As the title stays:

What parts do I need to buy for ChaDeMo upgrade? Should the BMU, CMU or other things be changed? I have a source that may be able to provide and I want to know what to buy.

Thanks all for the help

 

[MickeyS70]

As the title stays:

What parts do I need to buy for ChaDeMo upgrade? Should the BMU, CMU or other things be changed? I have a source that may be able to provide and I want to know what to buy.

Thanks all for the help

Buy an I-MIEV that comes with CHAdeMon as standard or upgrade your cells to NMC if you’re looking to extend your range.

I’m not saying it can’t be done, but there are many unknowns and potential stumbling blocks:

Apart from sourcing the required hardware (leave a look at the workshop manual below) the EV-ECU is VIN coded if I remember correctly and you would need access to dealer grade diagnostic equipment. CMUs don’t need replacement but you probably need a different BMU.

http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/i-miev/online/Service_Manual/2013/index_M1.htm

CHAdeMon protocol uses CAN communication and although smart people have reverse engineered much of it, rapid charging was never looked at closely.

 

[Joel_1885]

So the BMU might need replacement, which will not match the VIN and throw a fault then? then whole drive system might need to be swapped...That sucks.

Thanks for the help.

 

[MickeyS70]

So the BMU might need replacement, which will not match the VIN and throw a fault then? then whole drive system might need to be swapped...That sucks.

Thanks for the help.

The BMU doesn’t seem to be VIN coded as it’s possible to run an I-MIEV with an iOn 80cell pack if you also swap the BMU.

Problem seems to be the EV-ECU, it may be possible to use a CAN bridge to overcome this issue, but I don’t think anyone has tried (yet).

 

[Joel_1885]

The BMU doesn’t seem to be VIN coded as it’s possible to run an I-MIEV with an iOn 80cell pack if you also swap the BMU.

Problem seems to be the EV-ECU, it may be possible to use a CAN bridge to overcome this issue, but I don’t think anyone has tried (yet).

Ok so what is the problem with the ECU that prevents ChaDeMo from working?

 

[MickeyS70]

Ok so what is the problem with the ECU that prevents ChaDeMo from working?

The EV-ECU is the ‘brains’ of the car and controls the CHAdeMon process, would be surprised if a non DC charge enabled car has the correct FW version to do that even if you manage to upgrade all the other HW components, just an educated guess though..

 

[Joel_1885]

but the ECU changes the VIN right? well then i will see, If I do the battery upgrade then it would take forever to recharge and i wish to have the HVDC charge option for in case.

 

[MickeyS70]

but the ECU changes the VIN right? well then i will see, If I do the battery upgrade then it would take forever to recharge and i wish to have the HVDC charge option for in case.

Not exactly, I think it compares the VIN reported by the other ECUs with its own, any mismatch and it will throw an error.

If I remember correctly, others have reported that it takes about 15h to fully charge an NMC 93 pack via level 2 EVSE, so rapid charging would come in handy.

If your goal is to just DC charge at home then this could be done (safely??) with relatively minor modifications.

 

[piev]

Hey Mickey, what are you basing this assessment on? The only thing the BMU does is report voltage. I would be surprised if they had multiple software versions on the EV-ECU.

BTW, I have a wrecked I-MiEV with all the Chademo hardware if you are interested.

 

[Joel_1885]

Hey Mickey, what are you basing this assessment on? The only thing the BMU does is report voltage. I would be surprised if they had multiple software versions on the EV-ECU.

BTW, I have a wrecked I-MiEV with all the Chademo hardware if you are interested.

I'll let u know, probably by next week, interested in the upgrade.

Does anyone know if I take it to the dealership can they fix the VIN issue and reprogram it for me, or will they refuse 3rd party repair/parts?

 

[MickeyS70]

The only thing the BMU does is report voltage. I would be surprised if they had multiple software versions on the EV-ECU.

If you mean CMU I agree, they report cell voltage and temperature and do the balancing, they don’t care about AC/DC charge.

The BMU however certainly needs to know what’s happening in relation to the charging process which although very different between AC/DC doesn’t need any additional HW to function therefore I’m on the fence when it comes to all BMU being CHAdeMON ready.

The EV-ECU is controlling CHAdeMON via CAN communication and engages the quick charge contactors inside the battery pack.

Unlke today, where generally all the HW is present and options are purely SW controlled, in my experience the concept was different 10+ years ago, but maybe car manufacturing was ahead of the time.

Only one way to find out for sure…

Does anyone know if I take it to the dealership can they fix the VIN issue and reprogram it for me, or will they refuse 3rd party repair/parts?

As EV-ECUs are field replaceable, there is a way to change the VIN with dealer diagnostic tools, they may refuse to do works simply because of a lack of knowledge

 

[jray3]

Joel, you might want to visit my little MiEV sanctuary for a tech day. I have a CHAdeMO car all taken apart, and others on hand in both flavors. I’m in town M-TH this coming week.

 

[piev]

If you mean CMU I agree, they report cell voltage and temperature and do the balancing, they don’t care about AC/DC charge.

The BMU however certainly needs to know what’s happening in relation to the charging process which although very different between AC/DC doesn’t need any additional HW to function therefore I’m on the fence when it comes to all BMU being CHAdeMON ready.

The EV-ECU is controlling CHAdeMON via CAN communication and engages the quick charge contactors inside the battery pack.

Unlke today, where generally all the HW is present and options are purely SW controlled, in my experience the concept was different 10+ years ago, but maybe car manufacturing was ahead of the time.

Only one way to find out for sure…


As EV-ECUs are field replaceable, there is a way to change the VIN with dealer diagnostic tools, they may refuse to do works simply because of a lack of knowledge

I meant BMU. And I don’t believe it does anything but report voltage to the EV-ECU. I don’t see any special behavior in the data when fast charging. I was just asking if you had some proof for your theory but sounds like no.

 

[MickeyS70]

I meant BMU. And I don’t believe it does anything but report voltage to the EV-ECU. I don’t see any special behavior in the data when fast charging.

For starters your CAN bridge wouldn’t work if voltage is the only thing the BMU reports to the EV-ECU.
My concern isn’t so much the BMU btw, I’m more concerned about the additional task the EV-ECU has to perform during a CHAdeMON session.

I was just asking if you had some proof for your theory but sounds like no.

Correct, just an (educated) guess, would actually be delighted if proven wrong…

 

[Joel_1885]

Joel, you might want to visit my little MiEV sanctuary for a tech day. I have a CHAdeMO car all taken apart, and others on hand in both flavors. I’m in town M-TH this coming week.

Some day, currently very busy summer for me

 

[piev]

For starters your CAN bridge wouldn’t work if voltage is the only thing the BMU reports to the EV-ECU.
My concern isn’t so much the BMU btw, I’m more concerned about the additional task the EV-ECU has to perform during a CHAdeMON session.

Correct, just an (educated) guess, would actually be delighted if proven wrong…

Well, I don’t have evidence either. I read however, that the EV-ECU doesn’t use the current from the BMU there’s a separate sensor for current. If I get a chance I will do some data collection. They are putting in some chademo chargers at the dealer here. You have to pay but be good in a pinch. I do know that during level two charge it turns on the BMU.

 

[MickeyS70]

Let’s assume it is possible to do, therefore I try to answer @Joel_1885 ‘s query according to schematics below




Looking at the different sections you’ll need
- [1] quick charging relay and associated wiring
- [2] all of it
- [3] should already be in place
- [4] all of it although but hopefully all inside Main Battery is already in place

@Joel_1885 best to have a look at your EV-ECU (under seat bank) and see if any of the required pins in [1] & [2] are populated.

Mickey

 

[piev]

If you read the Chademo specification it shows:
PIN Signal
4 - CH +B - Charger stop/start 1
7 - CNTF - Connection Check
6 - CINH - Charging Enable
9 - CNEL - Can Low
8 - CNEH - Can High
10 - S2 - Charging Start Stop 2

 

[Joel_1885]

Thank you all for the help. I will check my car sometime tomorrow to see what is populated under the seat.

 

[Joel_1885]

It just occurred to me that the DC model also has battery chilled air cooling from the AC, does the non fast charge have this cooling ability?