Outlander PHEV thread

[jray3]

There have been many mentions of the Outlander PHEV, but no dedicated thread, so here goes. InsideEvs.com brought my attention to the best video review I've seen yet, and one new point was that the engine can recharge the battery at CHAdeMO speeds, or nearly so.
http://insideevs.com/auto-express-reviews-mitsubishi-outlander-phev/#comment-433107
They claimed 80% within 30 minutes, but didn't demonstrate it. Leave that to the Aussies!
http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-reviews-road-tests/2014_mitsubishi_outlander_phev_review_offroad_83002_20140404
These guys ran the battery to 'almost zero' by bashing thru the bush on a 'proper' off-road excursion, and then only managed to achieve 70% SOC after an hour. Now if that capability included CHAdeMO export to a BEV, the Outlander PHEV would make the ultimate stable-mate for an I-MiEV or a LEAF! Talk about your conquest vehicle, "ring- Honey, I'm out of charge and I made it to the Nissan dealer, but they locked their gates 5 minutes ago, could you bring the Outlander?" "Sure Dear, but we'll need to park for at least a half hour- good thing the Outlander has fold-flat rear seating!!"
:shock:
Another nice feature was that the the Outlander PHEV has a smartphone app as remote rather than our clunky throwback radio remote.

And the following additional video from down under had slightly different conclusions on the onboard DCFC. http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-reviews-road-tests/2014_mitsubishi_outlander_phev_review_offroad_83002_20140404

 

[WyVern]

I took a test drive in an Outlander PHEV a week ago. Good build quality, smooth tarmac ride but you could feel the extra weight and sharp edges showed the limitations in the suspension, still obviously a world away from our iMiev though. I found that the central screen looked great and gave good info but was too confusing to use safely on the move.

The bit I liked was the ability to add the data you wanted to the minor screen behind the wheel so you get the info you want in addition to the speedo etc.

The engine kicks in when necessary and doesn't sound particularly nice. Personally I'd prefer a 'notch' in the pedal travel to help avoid activating it but I'm sure with more time would give better familiarity. Of note was the fact that the test car showed an average 4.4litre/100 km rather then their claimed 1.9l/100km (someone better at maths than me could perhaps do a conversion to US mpg).

The rear bench can easily fit 3x 80 kilo adults, although ideally it would be a short trip. The version I drove was the Aspire top spec but the dealer showed us around an LS. I actually prefer the lack of leather and chrome in the LS. The only other things the LS lacks are the remote app connectivity and a sunroof. For AU$5k less that the Aspire I could live with that.

As an alternative long range vehicle to my CRV the PHEV is near ideal, but knowing the iMiev would remain the primary family car means I couldn't warrant the AU$50k price of the LS for a car that would likely travel less than 5000km per year, we are going to stick with the CRV till it becomes uneconomical to retain. For anyone on the fence I would recommend the PHEV without hesitation, as a family SUV it is ideal.

 

[Mart]

http://calculator-converter.com/l_100km_mpg_convert_mpg_to_l_per_100_km.php

4.4L/100km gives 53.46 mpg(US).

 

[Barbagris]

...Of note was the fact that the test car showed an average 4.4litre/100 km rather then their claimed 1.9l/100km ..l.

In 100 kms, the first 52 made with the battery (12 kwh, only use 70%, 8,4 kWh), the last 48 in "hybrid mode" on a homologation cycle much lighter (*) than the american EPA. That is, 1,9 liter and 8,4 kWh in 100 km.

4,4 l/100 is a very good number in the real world in "gas burner" mode.

(*) Japan JC08, Europe NEDC; I don't know what is the Australian driving cycle

 

[WyVern]

Australian economy tests use ADR 81/02 (Australian Design Rules) for the combined cycle that gave the 1.9l/km figure.

Agreed that 4.4l/100km is impressive for such a large vehicle. I think more than ever the phrase "your mileage may vary" will be especially true for plug-ins.

I still prefer the overall simplicity of a BEV though...

 

[jray3]

So, another InsideEvs scoop, and another PHEV Outlander delay for the USA, due to another new Californica regulation.

http://insideevs.com/california-delays-mitsubishi-outlander-phevs-us-debut/

Interesting that Mitsu is saying they'll be fine without the US market, that 48,000 Outlander PHEV sales will happen this year, constrained only by the recently doubled battery manufacturing capacity. No comment on what that still-limited battery supply will do to i-MiEV production....

 

[Mart]

I thought it had been reported MiEV battery production was being moved to another facility.

 

[Vike]

I thought it had been reported MiEV battery production was being moved to another facility.

It has, but since they use the same GS Yuasa batteries, the supplies are ultimately fungible. Add in that the Outlander is a far more profitable vehicle, and the pressure to divert cells from i-MiEV production could prove irresistible.

I don't expect JDM i-MiEVs using Toshiba SCiBs (shorter range but more durable when slammed with quick-charge) will be affected, but they don't ship those over here.

 

[jray3]

http://insideevs.com/volvo-xc90-t8-plug-hybrid-worlds-cleanest-powerful-suv/

Lots more power and torque, seating for 7, approx 40 km/ 24 miles of EV automony, launching (somewhere) this year...
Sure, Mitsu's Outlander PHEV should beat it on price, but if the Volvo is that much better, and actually offered for sale in the US?....

 

[Vike]

Lots more power and torque, seating for 7, approx 40 km/ 24 miles of EV automony, launching (somewhere) this year...
Sure, Mitsu's Outlander PHEV should beat it on price, but if the Volvo is that much better, and actually offered for sale in the US?....

Well, sure. And what about a Tesla Model X? I'm sure the Volvo can beat it on price, but if the Tesla is that much better . . . There's no end to this game.

For my part, I don't want seating for 7, I don't want more power and torque, and I think the O-PHEV should be offering comparable all-EV range. What I want is room for four adults and their luggage in a vehicle useful for road trips that I can still use as an EV around town. The Volt is painfully close, except for that part about being a useful vehicle.

So yeah, if it's $20k less than the XC90 (as seems likely, though it's hard to be sure given the wildly different pricing strategies MMNA has pursued for Canada vs. the U.S.), if/when it's ever available the Outlander PHEV will hit a pretty big sweet spot. An important risk now is that GM figures this out and puts Voltec in an Equinox instead of a Cruze; MMC has given GM the time they need to do it, but lucky for Mitsu GM is about as interested in EVs as they are in appearing at a congressional hearing.

 

[olagon]

For those interested (I am), looks like late 2015 the Outlander PHEV should be in the U.S. and as an upgrade to what's out there now http://insideevs.com/2016-us-bound-mitsubishi-outlander-phev-to-be-completely-different/.

 

[jray3]

Ugh. After looking at both of those concepts, I'm even less optimistic. If I wanted a highway rocket for 4 adults I wouldn't be looking at SUVs- that's what sedans are for. We, like many families, frequently need seating for six (unless it becomes legal to put Grandma and Grandpa in a trailer, or should that be the kids..). The six-seat occasions are now down around 5000 miles per year, but monthly minivan rentals aren't yet practical, and the van makes a fine secondary vehicle to play second fiddle to the i-MiEV. Perhaps as the car-sharing services mature...

 

[Vike]

If I wanted a highway rocket for 4 adults I wouldn't be looking at SUVs- that's what sedans are for.

Just so we're all on the same page, let's keep in mind that the Outlander is not a SUV. It's a CUV, which in this case means a mid-size station wagon styled to look like a SUV, because a certain category of buyers (currently over-represented in the U.S.) have decided that they only want practical vehicles if they're disguised to look like wildly inappropriate ones (a lifestyle of suburban commuting and shopping apparently being a source of shame when compared to a lifestyle of off-road hunting and camping, even if approximately nobody you know ever goes off-road to hunt or camp). If you really want SUV capabilities, the Outlander was never going to make the cut, though it does sound like you're more interested in a minivan (another apparently sinful vehicle category, despised only slightly less than station wagons).

As I noted before, I may not be looking for a "rocket", but I sure would like a vehicle with reasonable cargo space and ample room for four typical American adults that can operate as an efficient hybrid for long-distance travel, and (ideally) a BEV for local use. GM's got a pretty good shot at delivering this if they can fit Voltec into an Equinox without destroying its utility (hint: don't put the batteries in the trunk). Ford doesn't seem to have a clue - they haven't met a cargo area that they don't think would be perfectly fine half-filled with batteries.

So while I don't disagree that my use case is "what sedans are for", and I'd love to have a sedan that filled the bill (e.g., we looked at the Accord Hybrid with great interest until we got a look at its useless trunk live and in person), the Outlander PHEV is what comes closest right now. The Volvo XC90 isn't even in the ballpark, especially when price is factored in.

With our gen2 Prius aging and the Outlander PHEV U.S. launch now pushed so far into the future, it's likely I'll have to give up on a plug-in. We plan to hold out at least until the gen4 Prius launches next year, and then we'll consider the available options; a Prius Plug-In (should Toyota finally deign to sell them in our state) might be as close as we can get.

 

[rkarl89203]

so basically its a sorta sporty large 4WD Volt.
Still consumes gasoline albeit at a slower rate.
Cheaper than a Volt though.

 

[jray3]

Vike, I suspect we are very much on the same page. The only thing I consider sinful about minivans is that the category has been so neglected that the biggest news of the last few years was a built-in vacuum cleaner! Minivans are far more useful than SUVs and CUVs, and if Honda had IMA'd the Odyssey I'd've been in a new one years ago. Similarly, if Toyota had Priused the Sienna, Ford had preserved 7 seats in the C-Max, or GM had a Voltec 6+ seat offering that wasn't an oversized and overpriced SUV, we'd be there.

Instead, we replaced our most fuel-efficient vehicle with the i-MiEV and took a lot of load off the remaining guzzlers.
I'm sure we would have used less fuel overall with even only a 20 mile PHEV minivan than the MiEV, but that was not to be.

Mitsubishi, have you got the message yet? Give the 'merican market something that lets them have their cake and eat it too- the PHEV CUV in conservative styling. Once they give electric driving a chance, then you'll also sell more i-MiEV.

 

[Vike]

so basically its a sorta sporty large 4WD Volt.
Still consumes gasoline albeit at a slower rate.
Cheaper than a Volt though.

Oh yes, very Volt-like, though we have no reason to expect a price significantly below $40k, thousands more than the Volt. But it will be well worth it.

Btw, many Volts (perhaps most) very rarely consume any gasoline at all, so "slower rate" doesn't quite cover it. If I'd bought/leased one instead of my i-MiEV, I might not go through a tank a year, given my town's small footprint and our driving habits. In our household fleet, the Outlander PHEV would similarly be a BEV for all intents and purposes aside from road trip duties.

And yes, jray3, I do believe we have similar perspectives on American truck-mania, especially when it's been indulged at the expense of more economical and drivable wagons, hatchbacks, and minivans. Our take on the Outlander PHEV is different mainly because our needs are different - not quite enough for you, luxurious excess for us.

 

[fjpod]

I don't see anything wrong with Americans, or anyone else, wanting to drive a vehicle that looks like and feels like an SUV, but is more suitable for everyday street use. I like my cars a little higher off the ground, with a little extra cargo space for easy in and out of bulky items.

Anyway, has MM announced an actual price for the American version, soon to be released?

 

[Vike]

I don't see anything wrong with Americans, or anyone else, wanting to drive a vehicle that looks like and feels like an SUV, but is more suitable for everyday street use. I like my cars a little higher off the ground, with a little extra cargo space for easy in and out of bulky items.

Well, that's just the point - all that can be achieved with a vehicle that doesn't look like something based on a pickup truck. There is very definitely something wrong with wanting vehicles that consume more fuel while delivering exactly zero extra functionality. For instance, I'm glad that Ford was able to put people back into station wagons by relabeling the Taurus X (itself a relabeled Freestyle, the wagon version of the Ford 500) as the "Explorer", but there's a bit of sheetmetal and mass devoted to promoting the illusion of truckness, and that's a pity.

The Outlander, like Chevy's Equinox, does a creditable job of being a moderately efficient midsize wagon while projecting a very truck-like image, and there's nothing wrong with that. My beef, as ever, is with commuters using 3-ton off-road boat-haulers to ferry a lone driver and his/her briefcase between exurban bedroom community and suburban office park. There is very definitely something wrong with that - but I doubt I'd get much push-back on that notion here.

 

[RobertC]

Here is a sales video on the Outlander PHEV from the UK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wm_stGjr7k&list=PL1jrwxAZBR6lumXv2XFhiiU6CZmKc63q4&index=1
I am envious of the smartphone app.

 

[jray3]

http://insideevs.com/mitsubishi-outlander-phev-concept-s-first-full-images/#comment-535271

Not as radical as previous renderings. I wish they'd stop fussing about restyling and just ship some product!