Not Charging. Main Inverter Fuse blown
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This post is related to the older saved code, P1AE6, for the eeprom error P1A51 in the BMU that signals to the EV-ECU that there is a problem. i don't know if this could prevent the car from READY, it seems minor and un-related to any high voltage or motor controller issue.
If the main battery is swapped out, or if the Aux battery is off more than a month, then the BMU must be reprogrammed.
There is a MUT data item, #277 in the BMU, which is EEPROM-stored and contains the number of months of operation since it was manufactured.
==========
Sum total time back up
277
Shows month elapsed time since vehicle manufactured.
Electric motor switch: ON
0 - 99,421 month
==========
If the BMU is defective, or if the BMU thinks this vaule is corrupted or not stored properly, then it throws the P1A51 code.
To correct that code requires a MUT-3 to connect and manually re-enter the number of months, [if the BMU is good] OR replace the bad BMU and write this data into the new BMU.
There is a supposed to be a label on the battery pack that the service tech would use to calculate the number of months since manufacturing.
My guess is that this is an internal counter used to prevent fraudulent warranty claims on the battery pack.
This would be a good-to-know discussion in a new thread about care and keeping of the Aux battery, reasons why it's not a good idea to let it drain or disconnect, etc.
If the main battery is swapped out, or if the Aux battery is off more than a month, then the BMU must be reprogrammed.
There is a MUT data item, #277 in the BMU, which is EEPROM-stored and contains the number of months of operation since it was manufactured.
==========
Sum total time back up
277
Shows month elapsed time since vehicle manufactured.
Electric motor switch: ON
0 - 99,421 month
==========
If the BMU is defective, or if the BMU thinks this vaule is corrupted or not stored properly, then it throws the P1A51 code.
To correct that code requires a MUT-3 to connect and manually re-enter the number of months, [if the BMU is good] OR replace the bad BMU and write this data into the new BMU.
There is a supposed to be a label on the battery pack that the service tech would use to calculate the number of months since manufacturing.
My guess is that this is an internal counter used to prevent fraudulent warranty claims on the battery pack.
This would be a good-to-know discussion in a new thread about care and keeping of the Aux battery, reasons why it's not a good idea to let it drain or disconnect, etc.
This code relates to how long it takes for the main capacitor in the MCU to charge up to the DC buss voltage. It seems like this would be the serious issue preventing your car from READY rather than the other code.
The main fuse is accessible from the bottom thru an access cover, but the main contactors are not. The charging current goes thru the smaller fuse in the MCU shown in the picture up-thread, and it can also be accessed thru the small MCU cover.
The service tech would raise the car and open the fuse covers, remove them and measure for continuity.
If you are brave and have a good quality voltmeter, then you could open the small MCU access cover and make some measurements.
First check for voltage on the buss: connect the meter to the main pack buss [+ and -] terminals
to ensure there is no voltage, Key OFF or out of the ignition.
If there is no voltage, then you can switch to the resistance or continuity scale and measure across the charging fuse to see if it is good.
Then connect in voltage mode across the buss again and try to start and see if voltage is getting to the MCU, should see ~275 to 360 VDC depending upon the "fuel" level. When you turn the key to start, listen closely to hear if the main contactors sound off like they are trying to engage, the normal clackity-clack.
If the contactors sound off but there is no voltage, then the main fuse is likely blown, or the contacts have arc debris holding them open. The main fuse could be replaced from below, but the main contactors cannot without opening the pack cover. If the pack is within the warranty period then bad contactors would be a reason to file a claim.
If there is voltage or it comes up too slowly, then the EV-ECU throws this code.
There is not much that a service tech can do except erase the code and see if it returns, and check for bad wiring or connector issues. There is a data list item #15 that can be checked with the MUT (or MUT clone, i have done this with the i909):
==========
STEP 7. M.U.T.-III freeze frame (FFD) data
Check the freeze frame data.
Item No. 15 : EMCU: Condenser voltage
OK result if data shows 220 V or more
Q. Is the check result normal?
Yes-Replace the inverter (MCU).
No- Replace the main battery assembly.
==========
When you turn the key OFF, the voltage should bleed down from the main buss at the capacitor. Just be careful not to touch anything with HV present.
The time is coming when we will either need to find mechanics that are willing to open a pack to replace cells or contactors, or do it ourselves. i'm preparing for the DIY approach and may be available to help others in the future.
The main fuse is accessible from the bottom thru an access cover, but the main contactors are not. The charging current goes thru the smaller fuse in the MCU shown in the picture up-thread, and it can also be accessed thru the small MCU cover.
The service tech would raise the car and open the fuse covers, remove them and measure for continuity.
If you are brave and have a good quality voltmeter, then you could open the small MCU access cover and make some measurements.
First check for voltage on the buss: connect the meter to the main pack buss [+ and -] terminals
to ensure there is no voltage, Key OFF or out of the ignition.
If there is no voltage, then you can switch to the resistance or continuity scale and measure across the charging fuse to see if it is good.
Then connect in voltage mode across the buss again and try to start and see if voltage is getting to the MCU, should see ~275 to 360 VDC depending upon the "fuel" level. When you turn the key to start, listen closely to hear if the main contactors sound off like they are trying to engage, the normal clackity-clack.
If the contactors sound off but there is no voltage, then the main fuse is likely blown, or the contacts have arc debris holding them open. The main fuse could be replaced from below, but the main contactors cannot without opening the pack cover. If the pack is within the warranty period then bad contactors would be a reason to file a claim.
If there is voltage or it comes up too slowly, then the EV-ECU throws this code.
There is not much that a service tech can do except erase the code and see if it returns, and check for bad wiring or connector issues. There is a data list item #15 that can be checked with the MUT (or MUT clone, i have done this with the i909):
==========
STEP 7. M.U.T.-III freeze frame (FFD) data
Check the freeze frame data.
Item No. 15 : EMCU: Condenser voltage
OK result if data shows 220 V or more
Q. Is the check result normal?
Yes-Replace the inverter (MCU).
No- Replace the main battery assembly.
==========
When you turn the key OFF, the voltage should bleed down from the main buss at the capacitor. Just be careful not to touch anything with HV present.
The time is coming when we will either need to find mechanics that are willing to open a pack to replace cells or contactors, or do it ourselves. i'm preparing for the DIY approach and may be available to help others in the future.
@Lic, does your car have a DCQC port--the Chademo level 3 charging port for HV DC directly to the pack?
Also do you have an OBDLink dongle and the Canion app on an android device to monitor the cell voltages? Or another miev owner in your area that has Canion and could plug in and do a quick check?
Also do you have an OBDLink dongle and the Canion app on an android device to monitor the cell voltages? Or another miev owner in your area that has Canion and could plug in and do a quick check?
Car has chademo port. I have obd link and canion. Canion sees battery fine, no problem with cells. It even showes me that car should show ready, but it does not.
I checked errors again and first time i didn't see errors related to high voltage system. I sow only errors c1394, u1111, u1116 (i sow them last time too but i thought they are not so serios), but after sometime while i played with launch tester x431 it appeared again. This tester kind of poweful. I am able to test some car system. But i didn't find test to try to close main contactor. I looked cells - look like they are fine. Max disbalance is 0.01v, battery voltage is 350v. I don't know what i should look next. I will try to search internet for those other errors. I tried to reset them but they are appear again. Especially c1394.
I checked errors again and first time i didn't see errors related to high voltage system. I sow only errors c1394, u1111, u1116 (i sow them last time too but i thought they are not so serios), but after sometime while i played with launch tester x431 it appeared again. This tester kind of poweful. I am able to test some car system. But i didn't find test to try to close main contactor. I looked cells - look like they are fine. Max disbalance is 0.01v, battery voltage is 350v. I don't know what i should look next. I will try to search internet for those other errors. I tried to reset them but they are appear again. Especially c1394.
Sounds like it could be a wiring or connector issue if the CAN1 buss is not being seen or responding. Maybe open and re-seat all the CAN buss connectors and look for cut or pinched wires. The junction between CAN1 and CAN2 is under the rear seat.
Has anyone been in there doing a recall service for airbag or something else. It's easy to pull the lower cover of the key switch and the knee panel to see the wiring. i removed the steel knee slicers while the cover is off.
Has anyone been in there doing a recall service for airbag or something else. It's easy to pull the lower cover of the key switch and the knee panel to see the wiring. i removed the steel knee slicers while the cover is off.
i didn't have time to look car, so i decided to go to dealer to check car and may be to fix it. i towed car to dealer. first time they told me it is most likely computer died. second time they told me that they reprogrammed computer and car started working and they told me it happened because of not right 12v battery which i used. because it is new battery and because i checked this battery before (battery showed good current and good capacity) i told them i will not by battery from them and i understand risk to use my battery and i asked them to get car with my battery installed. when i came to get car they told me that they installed my battery and got same problem and they reprogrammed computer again to get car working with my battery. so i came, paid, moved car to dealer charger and left dealer because i didn't have another driver to go back on two cars. i came later with my wife. car was fully charged. i drove car back home about 30km and i didn't see any problems, but when i switched car of at home and switch it on - i got same problem and same errors. so i don't understand what is going on. most likely i will go to dealer and i will ask them what exactly they did to car.
Lic, this is frustrating and I commiserate with you. Thank you for keeping us up to date, and wish you all the best with getting the dealer to tell you what they did and, more importantly, if you yourself can do whatever reset it was.
Another example of being held hostage to a manufacturer by a closed system requiring dedicated troubleshooting equipment (in this case, MUT3).
Do keep us up to date as things progress with you. Good luck!
Another example of being held hostage to a manufacturer by a closed system requiring dedicated troubleshooting equipment (in this case, MUT3).
Do keep us up to date as things progress with you. Good luck!
A weak or old 12V aux battery will cause a multitude of problems. They fixed it by replacing your 12V. You put the old one back in and the problems came back.
Do you have the equipment to measure the voltage and current of the 12V aux battery under load? if not then you don't really know the condition, even if it is "new" that doesn't mean squat. Open circuit unloaded it should read 12.8 or higher, if not then it is suspect. If it is weak then that voltage will cave in when the battery is loaded down.
Do you have the equipment to measure the voltage and current of the 12V aux battery under load? if not then you don't really know the condition, even if it is "new" that doesn't mean squat. Open circuit unloaded it should read 12.8 or higher, if not then it is suspect. If it is weak then that voltage will cave in when the battery is loaded down.
i have hyperion 1420 charger. I tested my battery and it showed good capacity and it can provide good current without big voltage dropping, plus i measured internal resistance and it was fine (i don't remember exact numbers). so i am sure in my battery.
so i looked car by launch tester and only serious error was P1A15. i erased it and car showed ready. I tried to switch it on and off several times - it was fine. i tried to make small ride and after switch off and on car showed same error again and doesn't show ready. i tried to find what is make car to show error and found that condenser charging timeout flag is on every time when car shows error P1A15. it is look like most likely car will show ready if i did car small rest before. same problem with same error when i tried to charge car. i tried to use other 12v battery from my other car and everything was the same - it is easy to get ready if i didn't use car some time and it starts to show error after even small ride. when car is show ready condenser voltage is 340v and real battery voltage is 350v.
i did small video about how reacts voltages and contactors positions when i am trying to switch on car and it doesn't start. i will show it if somebody interesting.
so i looked car by launch tester and only serious error was P1A15. i erased it and car showed ready. I tried to switch it on and off several times - it was fine. i tried to make small ride and after switch off and on car showed same error again and doesn't show ready. i tried to find what is make car to show error and found that condenser charging timeout flag is on every time when car shows error P1A15. it is look like most likely car will show ready if i did car small rest before. same problem with same error when i tried to charge car. i tried to use other 12v battery from my other car and everything was the same - it is easy to get ready if i didn't use car some time and it starts to show error after even small ride. when car is show ready condenser voltage is 340v and real battery voltage is 350v.
i did small video about how reacts voltages and contactors positions when i am trying to switch on car and it doesn't start. i will show it if somebody interesting.
Maybe there is a loose or corroded wire terminal, or a bad pre-charge resistor, or a defective bleed-off resistor, or too-high contact resistance in the contactors-- somewhere between the pack and the large capacitor in the MCU.
Increased electrical Resistance in this wiring path would slow the rate at which the big cap charges, plus it would reduce the voltage. Somehow you are getting a 10 volt drop across that path, which seems really excessive. Back in the past i pulled the cover off the MCU and measured the voltage directly with a meter--the pack was at 360 and the terminals at the capacitor were at that same voltage. i should go check it again with the carsoft i909 scanner.
This may be why you are getting that trouble code, because it is taking too long for the cap to charge up and when it does the voltage does not go high enough.
send the link and i'll watch the video.
Increased electrical Resistance in this wiring path would slow the rate at which the big cap charges, plus it would reduce the voltage. Somehow you are getting a 10 volt drop across that path, which seems really excessive. Back in the past i pulled the cover off the MCU and measured the voltage directly with a meter--the pack was at 360 and the terminals at the capacitor were at that same voltage. i should go check it again with the carsoft i909 scanner.
This may be why you are getting that trouble code, because it is taking too long for the cap to charge up and when it does the voltage does not go high enough.
send the link and i'll watch the video.
What app are you using to display that data?
i downloaded and was able to view the videos.
in the second video it appeared that the main + contactor indicator (diag) never came on when you tried to start. Also it showed that the charge contactor output and indicator (diag) were both turned ON.
The condenser voltage went to 338 but the pack was at 350, so that is what triggered the condenser timeout flag, and that would set the HV error light on the dash.
But how can the condenser get any voltage at all if the main(+) never came ON? Maybe the contactor did come on, but the indicator switch is defective?
Here's some ideas:
1. Lately we seem to be hearing about several folks with dc/dc converter box/ charger box, having failures and issues. If the charger-dc/dc converter box was drawing too much current due to an internal fault, then it could cause the condenser chargeup time to be too slow. They share the same wire from the pack to the MCU, then there is a connector between the MCU and Charger. Try disconnecting that on the fat orange cable that connects the charger to the MCU and see if the condenser timeout error goes away when there is no load from the dcdc/charger box.
2. Some fault of the main (+) contactor, either not being driven ON by the EV-ECU, or fault in the contactor itself.
3. Fault of the contactor indicator switch (diag)--the EVECU thinks the main is not ON even though it is, and it shuts down the READY
i downloaded and was able to view the videos.
in the second video it appeared that the main + contactor indicator (diag) never came on when you tried to start. Also it showed that the charge contactor output and indicator (diag) were both turned ON.
The condenser voltage went to 338 but the pack was at 350, so that is what triggered the condenser timeout flag, and that would set the HV error light on the dash.
But how can the condenser get any voltage at all if the main(+) never came ON? Maybe the contactor did come on, but the indicator switch is defective?
Here's some ideas:
1. Lately we seem to be hearing about several folks with dc/dc converter box/ charger box, having failures and issues. If the charger-dc/dc converter box was drawing too much current due to an internal fault, then it could cause the condenser chargeup time to be too slow. They share the same wire from the pack to the MCU, then there is a connector between the MCU and Charger. Try disconnecting that on the fat orange cable that connects the charger to the MCU and see if the condenser timeout error goes away when there is no load from the dcdc/charger box.
2. Some fault of the main (+) contactor, either not being driven ON by the EV-ECU, or fault in the contactor itself.
3. Fault of the contactor indicator switch (diag)--the EVECU thinks the main is not ON even though it is, and it shuts down the READY
chinese launch x431kiev said:
yes, it is confuses me too. I thought may be in the beginning car uses main(-) and charge contactor to charge condenser and if charge process finished well - car is switching on main(+). Is it possible?kiev said:
kiev said:
Yes, I could try it. But If car started I should see problems with 12v line or I should see that car is taking too much power in ready mode and not moving. But it was the same 0.4kW like before.
in this case it should stop immediately and not wait if condenser will reach battery voltage or not.kiev said:
Before doing the test, make sure the 12V Aux is strong and fully charged, just to take that out of the picture and not have to worry about an issue with it.
i posted some diagrams in a troubleshooting thread
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4079&p=36346#p36346
In the first diagram you can see that there are 3 contactors in the pack: charging, main[+], and main[-]
If the main + doesn't come on then the voltage is reaching the condenser thru the charging contactor path, which has a Resistor in the path and will cause a slower condenser rise time.
Maybe the issue is in the EV-ECU? Why is it commanding the charging contactor instead of Main while trying to start to READY mode. Why isn't Main[+] coming on--is it even being commanded.
One way to check would be put a voltmeter on the EV-ECU line that commands Main[+] and see if it goes to 12V when trying to start. EVECU is under the rear seat, yellow wire in connector 111, terminal 107, check voltage between here and ground/chassis.
Connectors make for quick and easy installation, but they are the most likely candidate for intermittent issues. The sliding contacts are prone to oxidation and dirt. Sometimes just disconnecting and cleaning the contacts with spray can of cleaner compound will provide a fix. With key OFF, just pull all the connectors on EVECU and BMU and clean all of them.
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4079&p=36346#p36346
In the first diagram you can see that there are 3 contactors in the pack: charging, main[+], and main[-]
If the main + doesn't come on then the voltage is reaching the condenser thru the charging contactor path, which has a Resistor in the path and will cause a slower condenser rise time.
Maybe the issue is in the EV-ECU? Why is it commanding the charging contactor instead of Main while trying to start to READY mode. Why isn't Main[+] coming on--is it even being commanded.
One way to check would be put a voltmeter on the EV-ECU line that commands Main[+] and see if it goes to 12V when trying to start. EVECU is under the rear seat, yellow wire in connector 111, terminal 107, check voltage between here and ground/chassis.
Connectors make for quick and easy installation, but they are the most likely candidate for intermittent issues. The sliding contacts are prone to oxidation and dirt. Sometimes just disconnecting and cleaning the contacts with spray can of cleaner compound will provide a fix. With key OFF, just pull all the connectors on EVECU and BMU and clean all of them.
