my Miev will not charge

[mikedufty]

Paceway (Mitsubishi dealer) have now done all their diagnostics and say it points to a problem with the EV-ECU which they want to replace as the next step. They are currently working out whether they want me to pay for that or not.

I'm a bit worried that it is not actually the problem, and will result in another couple of months delay without making any progress, even if I don't need to pay for it.

 

[kiev]

...
I'm a bit worried that it is not actually the problem, and will result in another couple of months delay without making any progress, even if I don't need to pay for it.

If the car runs and drives then some pieces of the EV-ECU have to be working, so it is puzzling. Maybe the section that controls charging is bad yet the rest is okay?

i hope they can resolve this for you quickly and you will be able to report the findings.

 

[mikedufty]

Yes, I drove it in there 5 months ago with no problem, but can't confirm if it still drives.
I think someone else had a dealer replace an ECU first when they had a dead charger and it didn't help, so I'm a bit suspicious this is not actually the problem, but they should know better than me.

 

[coulomb]

All we know is "software giving errors". It sounds like a VIN mismatch error to me. We know that old and replacement chargers from some junkyard don't care about VINs, but maybe brand new chargers do.
Presumably, they are following service procedures for your early model vehicle, but I dont know whether those procedures get updated for the latest *replacement* parts.

Them wanting to get a paper manual suggests that they were not completely confident of their procedures. But I'm not sure that paper procedures would be the most up to date.

I share your concerns that the EV ECU won't fix the problem, and that obtaining one could waste a lot of time. Maybe a firmware upgrade for the EV ECU, if such a thing exists, might be quicker and cheaper for all concerned. It might be that the old EV ECU in the vehicle doesn't know how to talk properly to the new OBC. [ Edit: this now seems unlikely, unless the VIN locking is very recent. See next post. ]
But it seems unlikely that it would need new hardware, or that the old hardware has failed and yet could still drive the vehicle months ago.

I have no idea how successful you would be attempting to suggest this to them. If an EV ECU firmware update is possible, surely it would be part of the fault finding procedure. But it would seem worth a try. This might require contacting HQ, but surely that's routine when they are struggling like this.

It goes without saying that it is beyond scandalous that a modern car company can't fix a car after months of time. This sort of thing could set back EV adoption in the country where uptake relative to income is surely the worst in the world.

I hope that despite everything, this is somehow resolved quickly.

 

[skylogger]

Mikeduffy:
Just came across this thread and that your car is still at the dealer.
It appears that on the report when you first took your car to the dealer, one of the items listed
is re-programming the EV-ECU. Now it sounds like they want to replace the EV-ECU.
I think the first fault was the Charger, but now they introduced a new fault onto the EV-ECU
when they were re-programming it. Last year, when Chris took his 2010 IMIEV to the dealer,
he had faulty charger, and the dealer tried first replacing the EV-ECU, Then told him he would
ALSO have to replace the charger. He had to pay for the EV-ECU even though it was not the fault.
He got his car back, I was able to fix the charger, and Chris gave me the spare original EV-ECU.
So I currently have this spare EV-ECU, which is probably ok, and I also have one in the wrecked
2010 IMIEV that I am using as a test bed. If you give me a PM with your phone number, maybe
one of these can be used to resolve your problem. Paceway probably would not accept use of
2nd hand parts due to warranty issues, but might use one in a temporary swap out for trouble
shooting. In regards to firmware revisions, Just recently, another AEVA member Paul, replaced
his charger with a brand new one he had shipped from Japan. There was no VIN locking issues
with the charger, and it was fully compatable with the old original firmware in his original
EV-ECU.

REDCANE:
i Had a case where I tried starting a car with the service plug removed (by someone else previously working on the car) and getting the exclamation error and not going the READY. Then putting the plug back in, and trying to start the car, and car went to READY with no errors.
So in my case, the error codes were not permanently stored and did not prevent the car from going to READY once the service plug was put back in. I also had a case where I had the charger completely removed from the car, and temporarily tried to start the car, and it WOULD go to READY, even with errors from not having the charger in the car. Of coarse I had the errors of the 12v aux not charging, and could not leave it in this condition due to coolant fluid open tubes, but I was able to prove that not having a charger would not prevent the car from going to READY state. To me, it sounds like some other new fault has been introduced. Make sure that even with the service plug put back in, that the swing leaver on it is completely pressed down, as there is a sensor in this that will keep the car from going to ready if the sensor swith in the service plug is not fully activated. I think to go farther, you really need access to a MUT III, or get a dealer to run a scan on your car to see what the new fault actually is before you can go forward.

 

[mikedufty]

Well my wife has vowed not to get an EV again until they are commonplace. Hopefully that is not too far away.
Part of our delay was due to the part number of the charger being changed, which supports the idea that maybe the new charger is different. Maybe it does need a new ev-ecu to go with it.

They should be able to find that out from Mitsubishi though, since the solution to VIN locking would seem to be to take it to them ( a dealer).

 

[coulomb]

Well my wife has vowed not to get an EV again until they are commonplace.

Totally understandable, but really bad for EV adoption in Australia. Though it sounds like dealers in the USA aren't necessarily much better.

Hopefully that is not too far away.

Oh joyful day when that happens.

Part of our delay was due to the part number of the charger being changed...

Surely this sort of thing happens to car parts all the time, from window winders to turbo charger fans. I was at Suzi Auto recently with my Japanese but non-Suzuki car, and lamented about an error code. He looked it up and offered to get me the likely part. I said sure, go ahead, I'll pick it up next time I visit. Nah, it will be here in 10 minutes. Do you want a cup of coffee while you wait? Sure enough, in 10-15 minutes, a guy in a high-viz shirt turns up with the part. Sure, it cost 5x what it looks like it should cost, but we have come to expect that for car parts. Meanwhile, Mistubishi are saying "oh damn! We've missed the backstroking sloth; we'll have to wait for his next swim!". Someone should make a comedy movie about Mitsubishi dealers and EVs.

 

[skylogger]

MIKEDUFFY:
I just took the EV-ECU that came from Chris's IMIEV and swapped it with the one in the Wrecked IMIEV Testbed.
It started in READY No problems, then took it for a short drive, then put in on charge just to make sure no errors
came up while in charge mode. All worked great, never even came across a VIN Lock problem.
I thought I read somewhere that the EV-ECU was one of the VIN locked parts, but now I think this proably may
not be the case for 2010 IMIEV and probably only got introduced later like 2012.
So these spare EV-ECUs can be used for trouble shooting if you require one.
Both EV-ECUs have part number 9499A182 printed on them One has a code VOT90771 H3 while the other has a code VOT90771 H4 printed on them also, which may be a hardware or software revision marking at time of manufacturer.

 

[mikedufty]

Just got a response from Paceway that they can try it, "BUT can’t take any responsibility if it crashes or something as it is not a new unit."

I will get in touch about picking it up.

 

[mikedufty]

Swapping the EV-ECU did not fix the problem. Not sure what to do next.

 

[redcane]

To me, it sounds like some other new fault has been introduced. [...] I think to go farther, you really need access to a MUT III, or get a dealer to run a scan on your car to see what the new fault actually is before you can go forward.

My carsoft i909 (MUT alternative) turned up yesterday, and it read an active P1A15 error code. So that gives us an idea of where the issue lies. It is indeed a new error code. The service manual suggests to check wiring harnesses and the 280A fuse in the battery pack. It also suggests a CAN bus test, which I'm not sure if I can perform with an i909. My plan is to read through anything related to the diagnostic steps in the service manual, and see what I can figure out. I don't really want to go back to the dealer to pay to get codes read off it, plus at the moment it would need to get towed there.

 

[kiev]

Swapping the EV-ECU did not fix the problem. Not sure what to do next.

Sorry to hear Mike. So with the EVECU swap, your car would start and go to READY, but it won't charge. And this is on the second OBC unit that replaced the original? This is looking like connectors or wiring harness issue, or possibly the low voltage power supply to the OBC (fuses and relays). Is there a DTC code coming up now in the EV-ECU, and what is the number code coming up from within the OBC? These will pinpoint the source of the issue.

 

[mikedufty]

They haven't been all that communicative about the technical side. I don't even know if it is still not just charging or doesn't drive at all now. Will try to find out more.

 

[skylogger]

REDCANE: If your fault is the fuses inside the battery pack, here is some info:
There are four fuses inside the main battery pack, that can be accessed/replaced, without having to remove the battery pack from the car.
There is a plastic cover, that covers the whole under belly of the car/battery pack, that is held on by a bunch of 10mm screws, but there is also two screws that have a weird plastic cap over them, that I had to break off, then has a non standard bolt head (not hex, not star) but I was able to jam a flat blade screw driver into them and remove them. once this plastic cover is removed, you will see two small door plates one on left and one on right. Behind these plate covers are the fuses.

 

[redcane]

REDCANE: If your fault is the fuses inside the battery pack, here is some info [...] Behind these plate covers are the fuses.

I appreciate the information on getting to the fuses. It seems like the fuses are near the main connections to the pack (also need checking as part of the P1A15 diagnoses procedure from the service manual).

I don't think it is the main drive fuse itself - 280A 300V is a lot of power to not notice the smoke come out somewhere. However I do want to check why the contactors aren't actuating. So we will likely want to check if we can apply voltage to the contactors and operate them, along with checking if there is voltage to them from the ECU. I'm not sure if the P1A15 trouble code is a symptom of the contactors not operating, or the cause of them not operating. I'm hoping the contactors can be physically accessed near the fuses.

 

[kiev]

Was this the car that had the service plug removed? Has it ever worked since the plug was re-installed?

Was it installed properly? The i909 can read the status of the service plug switch.

Can the i909 read your pack voltage with key to ACC or ON?

Is the Aux battery new or fresh? a worn out aux can prevent READY.

Does the car have DCQC Chademo port? It is possible to use the DCQC relay next to the EV-ECU to turn on the DCQC contactor and read the battery voltage at the fat terminal sockets.

Maybe the big pack fuse has blown, but then you have to wonder how and why did it blow? Did something short out in the MCU, etc...

 

[coulomb]

A worn out aux can prevent READY.

If it's been sitting idle in the workshop for months, even a new auxiliary battery could die, or at least require a good long charge.

That would be worth checking for sure.

 

[redcane]

This is the car that had the service plug removed.

After replacing the service plug, the contactors chattered the first two attempts to start it, and haven't been heard from since.

The i909 showed a stored trouble code for the service plug (P0A0A). The code isn't listed as active. I'm unable to clear codes from the EV-ECU, which I guess is due to the active P1A15 code. I've been able to clear codes from other ECUs.

The i909 can get readings from all the cell monitoring units. We can also get cell data from canion. I didn't notice a specific pack voltage read out. The i909 only connects to the ECUs when the car is on. Don't seem to be able to communicate with anything when car is in in ACC, but I really only tried the EV-ECU.

The aux battery was replaced about 6 weeks before the charrger failed. It's been on a battery charger on and off since. We've been doing some of the testing with a 10A lab supply connected and set to around 13.4V to rule out low auxiliary voltage. I suspect the long drive to the dealer without a functioning DC-DC will have damaged the battery, so I'll likely replace it if we get it back on the road.

Trying the quick charge relay and chademo port is a great idea. I might try that first this weekend, before the P1A15 service manual procedure.

 

[kiev]

i've never heard of anyone testing this, but if the HV fuse were blown, would the fuel gauge still show the bar lines for the battery pack voltage/SOC when the key is turned to ON?

One interesting observation you made was that the contactors were chattering and then never heard from again. So could the contact points be damaged and causing an open circuit (or is it the fuse)?

 

[redcane]

Fuel gauge is still displaying 4 bars. I think it is based on the BMS reading from the cell monitoring units, rather then from reading the overall pack voltage. It's definitely not taking a reading from outside the contractors. I should have noted what the fuel gauge did with the service plug removed.