Modifying the OEM Panasonic EVSE?

[thomash85715]

I just got my 12 silver i-MiEV from a san diego dealer. It was transported to my house in tucson because there is a long stretch across the desert from yuma to gila bend where I would have run out of power. So far LOVING IT! Right now it is drinking its first level 1 charge from my carport plug using 880W according to my kill a watt box. I thought I had read somewhere (but cannot now find) something about bumping these EVSE devices up to more like 12 amps from the factory 8. How hard can that possibly be? A person with any soldering skill and wherewithal to order some small diodes or capacitors or whatever it would take should easily be able to help himself to faster charging. Thank you. --Tom in Tucson

 

[Don]

I thought I had read somewhere (but cannot now find) something about bumping these EVSE devices up to more like 12 amps from the factory 8. How hard can that possibly be? A person with any soldering skill and wherewithal to order some small diodes or capacitors or whatever it would take should easily be able to help himself to faster charging

How hard could it be? Well, it's not simple to do and unless you can do some programming, you're not going to get the full output out of it

Here's the thread you're looking for: http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1497

Starting on page 8 is some detail from someone who *thought* he had figured out how to do it himself. As you can see (or read) it didn't turn out all that well in the end

Don

 

[JoeS]

Tom, congratulations on your new purchase! The 400-mile trip from San Diego to Tucson IS possible and that long stretch across the desert would actually be doable (there are a few places you could stop to recharge), but not something a brand-new owner would want to undertake.

As you noted, the EVSE (not a charger - the charger is in the car) was limited (by Mitsu's fearful lawyers, I surmise) to a measly 8A. EVSEUpgrade.com offers a very elegant solution, programmable between 6A and 12A (120vac) or 6A and 13A (240vac). I've had a number of instances where I dialed down the current when plugged into old buildings' marginal wiring outlets.

I moved this thread over into the appropriate subforum, and, Tom, you might spend a bit of time perusing this website as there's a wealth of information here. Don't be afraid to ask questions, as there are plenty of people here willing to give you a hand.

Enjoy your new car, but, if I may suggest, in your heat don't normally fully charge it, and if you're going on a longer trip then fully charge it just before taking off.

 

[thomash85715]

I have trouble in forums with where to put stuff. My searching ability must be poor as I never can find a past discussion on whatever it is I am thinking about. Thank you for being patient.
On Youtube is a guy with a LEAF EVSE that looks for all the world like ours. Maybe secretly made by panasonic? Anyway, he sticks a metal loop in the small pilot signal holes on the j1772 connector and turns the thing on then presses the silver lock button a specific number of times and it will alter the amp setting on the EVSE output. Does this constitute "programming?" The dashboard inside the car then shows the higher amp rate going in. But elsewhere I read that our charger (inside the car and yes I now get that) is set for 3.3 KW and not the 6.6 it needs to be for faster charge rate. But that makes no sense if our cars can be plugged into a level 2 commercial unit at a car dealer or municipal station. I just read the post you linked me to and five years ago Don replied with this:

Re: EVSE Upgrade
Report this postQuote
Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:38 pm

Think you'll like it Joe - As it was explained to me, they managed to do it without adding any new external components which would affect the watertight integrity of the 'brick' . . . . they use the existing three LED's on the unit to tell you what is going on, and you step through the adjustments using the button on the charge handle

So has anyone on here tried the paper clip and lock button flash method to increase amps to 12 over the original 8? This would be a huge boon for us who would rather not pay out $300 to have our EVSE altered. If we teach ourselves how to do this, it would be great. Thank you. --Tom H

.

 

[wmcbrine]

(Answered the paperclip thing elsewhere.)

But elsewhere I read that our charger (inside the car and yes I now get that) is set for 3.3 KW and not the 6.6 it needs to be for faster charge rate. But that makes no sense if our cars can be plugged into a level 2 commercial unit at a car dealer or municipal station.

The 3.3 kW vs. 6.6 kW issue is unrelated to the matter of level 1 (120 volts) vs. level 2 (240 volts). Those are both level 2 rates.

120 V * 8 A = 0.96 kW, which is what the included EVSE does
120 V * 16 A = 1.92 kW, i-MiEV's theoretical maximum on level 1
240 V * 13.75 A = 3.3 kW, the i-MiEV's maximum rate on level 2
240 V * 27.5 A = 6.6 kW, the maximum rate on level 2 for some other cars

 

[Don]

So has anyone on here tried the paper clip and lock button flash method to increase amps to 12 over the original 8? This would be a huge boon for us who would rather not pay out $300 to have our EVSE altered.

The paperclip adjustment procedure is for those units which have been modified by EVSE Upgrade

Yes, our charger is rated at 3.3 Kw. Your 8 amp unit is only capable of 960 watts. To recharge at the fastest rate the charger is capable of (about 5 hours from empty to full) you need an EVSE which can provide 240 volts at about 13.5 amps. An EVSE Upgraded unit can do 240 @ 13 amps

Yes, the Leaf EVSE is very similar to ours - Both are made by Panasonic. Ours came from the factory as an 8 amp, 120 volt only unit, the Leaf is a 12 amp, 120 volt only unit. Unfortunately, a used Leaf EVSE will probably cost you more than $300 and it can still only do 120 volts. Getting your unit upgraded is really worth the money if you intend to one day charge using 240 volts - It's cheaper than buying a new L2, 240 volt capable unit

The fastest way to recharge is Level 3, or DCQC and that does NOT use the charger built into the car - You get an 80% charge in about 20 minutes. Some iMiEV's can do Level 3 and some cannot. If your car has this option, you'll have a little lever beside the drivers seat which opens the Level 3 charge port on the drivers side of the car

Dozens of us here have had the EVSE Upgrade done on our stock units - It's the biggest bang for the buck out there and it's VERY reliable

Don

 

[JoeS]

Tom, by "programming" I meant the paperclip method, which I consider a very elegant solution. It is a custom design mod by EVSEUpgrade.com. Here's my initial post on this -
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1497&start=20#p9607

Being a belt-and-suspenders kinda guy when it comes to ensuring I have charging capability, I have not only had my Mitsu EVSEs upgraded but also have separate L1 and L2 EVSEs, and about a zillion adapters I take with me on long trips -
http://www.katiekat.net/Vehicles/Mitsi/EVSEAdaptersJoeS.pdf

Incidentally, don't feel bad - most of us have a heck of a time finding posts on this site, which is one reason I try not to get us off-topic too far.

 

[thomash85715]

If a person puts a 240VAC plug (via adaptation) on a stock factory unmodified EVSE that came with a '12 i-miev ES, and plugs it into a 240vac dryer plug, will it blow up and be toast? Or will it know what to do and send 3.3 kw to the car charger in a happy handshake?
Thank you all for explaining this to a new hatchling. I now totally get the differences among the various levels of charging. But still wondering about the canadian advantage? Where does the 12 amp handshake originate? In a special EVSE or in a different charger in the car itself?

 

[PV1]

Feeding the stock EVSE 240 volts will blow out the power supply inside that powers the control circuit.

 

[Don]

Thank you all for explaining this to a new hatchling. I now totally get the differences among the various levels of charging. But still wondering about the canadian advantage? Where does the 12 amp handshake originate? In a special EVSE or in a different charger in the car itself?

The charger in the car is the same for all models - The handshake and the current setting are programmed in the EVSE. You could replace the power transformer in your EVSE with the 240 volt one as explained beginning on page 8 of the EVSE Upgrade thread and you would then have both 120 and 240 volts, but you'll still be limited to just 8 amps. No one here (so far) has figured out how to reprogram the EVSE for either higher amps or adjustable amps like the folks at EVSE Upgrade are doing

I think if you bought either a Canadian EVSE, or a Leaf EVSE and replaced the transformer you would probably have what you're looking for - 12 amps on both 120 and 240 . . . . but it's still cheaper just to have the folks at EVSE Upgrade work their magic on the one you have

Don

 

[thomash85715]

Has anyone ever parked their i-MiEV next to a leaf and swapped the stock EVSE? In other words, has anyone empirically verified that the 8 amp lock at L1 is programmed into our factory units? What current draw as measured by a Kill-A-Watt occurs when a factory leaf EVSE is plugged into one of our cars? Or vice versa? I guess I need to make friends with a local leaf-er and buy him lunch to find out.

 

[Don]

A Leaf EVSE as well as a 2014 iMiEV EVSE will charge your car on 120 volts at 12 amps - No 240 volts though

. . . . and, your stock 8 amp EVSE will charge either a Leaf or a 2014 iMiEV (or any other EV you choose to name) at 8 amps and no more, the same as it does your car - It's all in the EVSE - The EVSE 'talks' to the car

The EVSE's 'handshake signal' tells the car how much current it can safely pull from the wall and the car's charger sets itself to draw only that amount of current and no more - It's all in the EVSE and our stock EVSE is telling the car not to draw any more than 8 amps, so it doesn't. Some EVSE's have adjustable current and some don't. The one from EVSE Upgrade does . . . . that's part of the 'upgrade' as is the 240 volt capability

How fast (and how many amps) you can charge any EV is determined by many factors. The household wire gauge feeding the EVSE outlet, the fuse size on that circuit, whether or not that fuse is powering anything else besides the EVSE, the gauge of the wire between the EVSE and the car (our EVSE wire is only 16 gauge, so we're limited to 12 amps because of that wire choice) and the maximum capability of the EVSE itself. What the charge current will be is always determined inside the EVSE and in some EVSE's (like ours) that current is permanently set in the software within the unit - If you could change the software you could change the current assuming of course you don't exceed any of the other limiting factors I mentioned

Mitsu was very conservative when they limited our EVSE to only 8 amps, but they didn't know if the outlet in your garage was also powering your refrigerator or your clothes washer or something else. It's very common for a garage 120 volt outlet to share a fuse (and sometimes a feed wire) with other circuits. Early on, Mitsu was scheduling an electrical 'survey' for the home of each buyer - They had set it up for the 'Geeks' at Best Buy to do the surveys. My thinking is it was probably a ploy to sell and install L2 EVSE's since it was obvious that not many buyers were going to be happy with the 20 hour recharge time using the unit provided with the car

Don

 

[thomash85715]

Sorry to be asking same sort of questions over and over. Each time I learn a new layer. Now if I could just retain it all.
The guy in Gilbert AZ who is selling the Duosida aftermarket EVSE for $200 on ebay and CL states that the charger in the car tells the EVSE what rate to operate on L1. If he is correct, then putting a EVSE that wants to run at 12A on 120V will not be a successful enterprise. He states that his chevy volt has a dashboard switch or way to choose 8 or 12A on L1 and that if the mitsu charger is set to draw 8, that will be the limit. This is at odds with what you all say on here but I am more inclined to go along with the wisdom here.
I am quite certain that this plug I use for L1 at my house will handle 12A for the car.

 

[kiev]

The EVSE sends a PWM signal that indicates it's maximum current sourcing capability. The charger in the car decides how much current it actually wants to draw at any given time, up to that maximum amount.

The charger has a power rating of 3,300 Watts. Power is Volts x Amps, so 120V x 12 A does not exceed the charger's rating--it can easily handle that. 240V x 12A , it can easily handle that also.

 

[thomash85715]

You know you need to dial it back when you reply to your own postings but I just found this:

https://www.ev-power.eu/Electric-Cars/EVSE-kit-for-EV-charging-station.html?listtype=search&searchparam=EVSE

It costs $50 and is a DIY L1 setup that gives user control over the current draw using PWM control. Wonder if anybody has done this?

 

[kiev]

That's an interesting little kit to start building a diy EVSE, but it is missing the proximity signal line carried on pin 5 of the connector. That line tells the car that you are fully plugged in and the handle is locked, and is also used to signal a shutoff request when you pull the trigger to disconnect. You would never want to connect or disconnect with current flowing or live mains voltage on the terminals in the handle.

 

[thomash85715]

There is a diagram on wikipedia showing the parts associated with that disconnect circuit through the button. These pieces they sell go INSIDE the existing J1772 connector so it would be a simple matter to integrate those handful of resistors into the button so the charger in the car will see the proper signal during connect and disconnect. They show PWM oscillographs of three different current draw conditions and a little pot you can rig up to dial in the current as desired.

 

[PV1]

Even just going to 12 amps at 120 volts almost cuts charge time in half for a full recharge, so it's much more practical than the stock 8 amps.

The highest I've seen my on-board charger go is 14 amps. I charged from a 30-amp level 2 station last weekend that was only giving 197 volts (208V source with a long wire run), but the car didn't go higher than 14 amps (total charging power of 2.7 kW, so the charger wasn't maxed out on power).

 

[thomash85715]

All this is thoughtful and good advice which I appreciate. I would have to run single phase 120V extension from as yet undetermined place in my house to experimentally come up with two opposite phase legs at my carport. It would be easier to parallel off the dryer plug and not try to charge and dry at same time.
Right now am hoping for the czech solution to pan out. It seems like no one on here as built that yet. I would be the first! It all goes inside the j1772 connector head. I would write down the connections as they exist now on my factory EVSE before modifying it of course.
Yes I should do some math to figure out payoff point for the EVSE upgrade using the retail price. I just hate paying retail for anything; that is part of this.

 

[Phximiev]

Need a different kind of charger?

https://youtu.be/KT86ICX6VsI