Maximum Miles Driven In One Day

[Brian]

I've been thinking about the approach leec presented (above), whereby you drive 50 miles in 50 minutes and then spend 30 minutes Quick Charging, yielding (24hrs*50miles*60min/hr)/(50+30) = 900miles as the theoretical maximum iMiEV daily mileage using Quick Charging (CHAdeMO).

Now, using this same approach, here's the analysis for Level 2 and Level 1 charging...

Level 1 (8A)
A charging rate of 0.9kW * 3.333miles/kWhr results in 3.0miles/rechargehour. To recharge the car after having driven 50 miles we get 50/3= 16.67hours. Thus, we can say that we get back to the charge we started with in 16.67+(50/60)= 17.5hours after starting off on our 50-mile trip (ugh!). Ok, so for 24 hours that gives us 24 * 50/17.5 = 68.6miles theoretical daily maximum using the Mitsubishi 120vac (level 1) EVSE.

How close to these theoretical maximums can you get?

There is a flaw to your thinking in the 8A example above. Your 68.6 mile daily maximum is only 6.6 miles above the estimated range before complete discharge. Even if you stick with driving 50 miles before recharging, are you stating that the most you can drive is only 18.6 miles more? You are looking for maximum range, and for that your scenario does not need to achieve maximum charge on the battery before starting the second leg. What if a driver starts with a full battery, commutes 40 miles to work and plugs the car in for 8 hours while at work, then drives home again? The car has gone 80 miles and only been subjected to 10 hours of driving + charging time. Even if you add 10 hours for charging the previous night, that is only 20 hours consumed.

 

[JoeS]

There is a flaw to your thinking in the 8A example above...

Brian, you're right, as I unfortunately tried to cover two separate topics under the auspices of this one thread:

a) Maximum miles driven in one day
b) Maximum miles driven daily

Here's the distinction:

Maximum Miles Driven in One Day encompasses starting with a full charge and allowing for a fully-depleted pack at the end of 24 hours.

Maximum Miles Driven Daily encompasses starting with a full charge and ending with a full charge at the end of 24 hours.

In this thread I shouldn't have wandered off into the theoretical maximums possible for each Level of charging, and instead should have stuck to what maximum mileage people have actually driven in one day.

Perhaps the Maximum Miles Driven Daily discussion deserves its own thread, and we can leave this one alone to let people post the maximum mileage they've actually achieved in 24 hours.

 

[peterdambier]

Just a guess: Max distance the battery allows 150 km perhaps 180 km. I/5 means 5 hours driving, speed 30 km/h to 35 km/h and 6 hours charging at 240V/16A. So we get some 150 km to 180 km in 11 hours. That looks like to 12 km/h to 18 km/h average or 290 km to 430 km per day, no matter whether you charge every 15 kilometers or only every 90 kilometers.

Driving faster loses energy from the batteries and due to the wind. So driving faster will most likely lose more time charging than we gain range to to higher speed.

Not so long ago we have been to a pirates (party) convention for 3 days. That's been some 230 km each way. We got off early in the morning and recharged after 15 km. Next step was some 80 km. Highway took its toll. After 4 hours we took the final 111 km and arrived at 7 in the evening. Google meant 200 km but we spent some 30 km in roundabouts and circumventions due to road works. At the end of the day the turtle was complaining and no charge point in sight. 3 days later in the afternoon we took off on our way home. The city hall offered us a final charge from 400V/32A. We used only one phase, 230V/16A but a litte i with a big red plug makes a sight

Not without the turtle giving us a fit, we reached our first 111 kilometers. 5 hours charging, it was night and cold and foggy. The final 96 km we continued creeping to not wake the turtle. We succeeded skipping the final 15 km recharge. So we have been driving 236 km twice.

It's got cold now and we have been at a meeting some 90 km away. It turned out to become some 136 km or 260 km on a single day. The way up was nice with an additional charge at a shopping center for 4 hours and a stay at the Mayer who is responsible for another charge point. Our way back was late at night with only a single charge, 4 hours again. We were lucky to find an open greek restaurant with hot food and a heated room.

It is not for every day, it is more like an expedition, but 250 km is doable. We proofed it thrice. It took us from 8 in the morning to 2 at night.

 

[JoeS]

... That's been some 230 km each way... So we have been driving 236 km twice...but 250 km is doable. We proofed it thrice. It took us from 8 in the morning to 2 at night.

So, Peter, do we put you down as having achieved 230km(142.9mi), 236km(146.6mi), or 250km(155.3mi)? Congratulations, as either of the last two would mean you set a new record for this Forum! We have no doubt that over 200mi (320km) can be readily achieved by the iMiEV in one 24-hour day using 240vac L2 charging (if someone wants to go to the trouble of doing this).

 

[peterdambier]

236km(146.6mi) was what the odometer showed at the end of the day.

6 hours left so there is chance of improofment

 

[PV1]

I've been thinking about the approach leec presented (above), whereby you drive 50 miles in 50 minutes and then spend 30 minutes Quick Charging, yielding (24hrs*50miles*60min/hr)/(50+30) = 900miles as the theoretical maximum iMiEV daily mileage using Quick Charging (CHAdeMO).

Does anybody know how multiple quick charges in a day affects battery capacity? If, for example, you would travel I-70 end to end, for a distance of about 2050 miles, with a quick-charger placed every 50 miles, this would require 41 stops, adding 20.5 hours to the trip. Drive time is 34 hours, 10 minutes, making your trip take 54 hours, 40 minutes. This would allow you to drive from Greensburg, PA to Utah where I-70 meets I-15, which takes you to Las Vegas. That leg of the journey would require 5 more charging stops, taking 2.5 hours to charge, 4 hours to drive.

So, to drive 2,300 miles, it would take 46 charging stops, totaling 23 hours of charge time, 38 hours drive time, for a total trip time of 62 hours (rounded up for traffic). Average overall speed is 37 mph, while average moving speed is 60 mph. Doable, assuming someone spends about $1,000,000 in charging equipment, plus external costs.

My question is, what would 46 quick-charges in 2.5 days do to the battery's capacity?

(Disclaimer, I do NOT want to go to Vegas, I-70 ends at I-15, which leads to Vegas)

 

[Don]

Doable, assuming someone spends about $1,000,000 in charging equipment, plus external costs.

Just mount the quick charger (and a genset to run it) on a truck and move it from place to place. The truck can go faster than the iMiEV and be all set up to recharge you when you get there

My question is, what would 46 quick-charges in 2.5 days do to the battery's capacity?

We won't know for sure until you try it, but it's pretty safe to say that it wouldn't do the battery any good. Mitsu doesn't recommend doing this . . . . there's a disclaimer in the owners manual which reads "Repeatedly performing only quick charging can reduce the battery capacity. Regular recharging is recommended unless quick charging is necessary"

Don

 

[PV1]

The $1,000,000 is for the quick chargers themselves (actually $920,000 for 46 Nissan-branded CHAdeMO chargers, $20,000 a piece), which for a near-nationwide electric highway, is not bad.

As far as battery capacity, I guess we'll need in-road inductive charging. Hello, Solar Roadways!
Inductive charging can currently supply 10 kW to the car, the i uses 18 kW to cruise the highway (300 Wh/mi, 60 mph), so that reduces battery draw to 8 kW, extending range from 50 miles to 120 miles. But, if power consumption falls to 250 Wh/mi, usage drops to 15 kW, pulling 5 kW from the battery, extending range from 56 miles to 192 miles. Pull your power consumption down to or below 10 kW, infinite range.

 

[JoeS]

Back on topic, Lee Colleton (leec) has just documented his 256mile (412km) Three Pass Blast, thus becoming this Forum's new leader in the Maximum Miles Driven In One Day - this accomplished over mountain passes using snow tires. He used a combination of L1, L2, and L3 charging. Congratulations Lee!

 

[leec]

To be fair, driving 352 miles from Seattle to Portland and back on DCFC and L2 would be the record (also held by YT).

The three pass blast would be the record for maximum elevation gain in a day of greater than 12000 feet.

 

[JoeS]

To be fair, driving 352 miles from Seattle to Portland and back on DCFC and L2 would be the record (also held by YT).

OK, the new record for Maximum Miles Driven in One Day is now 352 miles. Congratulations leec!

In the future perhaps we ought to have dates/times and perhaps odometer/GPS photos, and maybe a separate recognition for those using only L1 or only L2?

The three pass blast would be the record for maximum elevation gain in a day of greater than 12000 feet.

Perhaps a separate thread?

 

[leec]

In the future perhaps we ought to have dates/times and perhaps odometer/GPS photos, and maybe a separate recognition for those using only L1 or only L2?

Here are some pictures and a mini trip report from that journey: https://plus.google.com/u/0/108161928669055573248/posts/arRqfjRr8ZQ

 

[leec]

This should set the record until the BC2BC drive next June.

crossposting from the Mitsubishi i-MiEV drivers community on Google+

I've completed a trip from Seattle to Portland then back up to Vancouver, BC. I traveled over 626 miles in a period of 37 hours throughout this trip with 486 miles between Madison Market in Seattle, WA to Electric Avenue in Portland, OR then on to the BCAA office on Canada Way in Burnaby, BC covered in less than 24 hours. This may be a distance record for the US spec i-MiEV (16kWh battery).

I kept company from Seattle to Portland and then from Vancouver back to Seattle with people from the Craigslist #RideShare board. They bought me coffee along the way but didn't pay for gas as the chargers are still in a free-to-use mode. There was a bit of misadventure on the return where I overestimated the charge at a rest stop and we spent some time at an RV park charging the car on a 110v outlet. I need to build the proper adapter for campground hookups, apparently.

The route was be approximately thus:
http://goo.gl/maps/uIFWr

GPS trace of actual route:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/greengo/traces/1373746

Public event posting for this trip:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/events/ci3retpa494dbanas0kldm0itds

17 DCFC #CHAdeMO chargers were used along this route in addition to some single and double phase charging (#L1 and #L2 resp.)

 

[leec]

There's a BC2BC rally being discussed on the MNL forums which I'm considering. I think it will only make sense for me if California is able to get CHAdeMO installed along I-5. The idea of driving 30-50 miles between multiple hour charging sessions along I-5 in the heat of summer isn't terribly appealing, though that's essentially what the LEAF drivers will be facing at a slightly longer interval.

 

[jray3]

MR BEAN and I made an epic i-xpedition yesterday, covering 374 miles in 14 hours, including two shopping stops while not on charge.
A total of seven CHAdeMO sessions were i-mployed, plus about 45 minutes on L2 when I had to backtrack due to an offline CHAdeMO station, but no turtle-riding.
i motored from the Tacoma area down past Portland, OR to retrieve a big part for my Pusher Trailer project, and while I was in a sales tax-free state, added four big iron brake drums and backing plates for my car hauling trailer. So no passengers, but at least 240 lbs of cargo, including a bulky suspension subframe hanging out back on the cargo platform that rides in my 2" hitch receiver from Torklift Central! http://torkliftcentral.com/ecohitch/mitsubishi/ecohitch_miev.php
I'll try to add a photo later, and could post a pretty complete trip log if desired.
I drove according to the range required between stations, hypermiling the hilly 50.5 mile segment, but blasted up a 22.1 mile segment at 75mph with the aircon "cold soaking" the interior. Nothing felt unusually warm to the touch after this trip, though I didn't have time to pull out the thermal imager or get into detailed diagnostics. One observation of note was that even on the last few fast charges in the heat of the afternoon after a day of hard charging (Portland hit 75 degrees yesterday, so the locals were panting), the variable speed compressor did not ramp up to full power or stay running fast for very long for pack cooling. (MR BEAN's AC compressor has a stepped speed control that's different from the first car, built 8 months earlier.) Oh, and the i does get a bit twitchy up front when loaded with a net weight transfer to the rear axle and getting passed by monster RV-driving maniacs...

 

[Malm]

Here in the center of Portugal, with fast charging every 62 miles, i can do 750 miles in one day, but the 20 minutes waiting between them will not give me the time that i need to rest. I remember two years ago, doing 350 miles in one day.
Should i beat this one too and wait for Don saying that is all about how many fast chargers we can find?

I think i will leave this one for someone else.

I would like to ask if there is anyone here that has an i-MiEV older than mine (i have it since march 2011).

 

[DonDakin]

Well I had my first long distance trip in the Imiev yesterday.

I did about 275 KM for the trip to visit a friends factory and 25 in the area after getting home. So I managed to break 300 Km in one day.

The trip was Montreal to Saint-Hyacinthe about 85 KM where I charged for about 40 minutes and then on to Drummondville about 135 KM from Montreal. Charged for 5 hours L2 and visited with my friend. Then returned 90 Km on the highway behind a wonderfull double semi truck doing 90 KM/hour to a quick charger in Boucherville (the only one in Quebec so far. Then 45 KM Back to the house.

It was really fun to do but I had to drive slowly on the way there on secondary roads.

One thing I noted is that I was so happy to see the charger with 20 KM and 2 bars left in Drummondville. I knew I could make it but there is a balance between just making it which is optimal and having some margin just in case.

On the way back I knew I was stopping at a quick charger and that made the trip almost like a regular car ride except for the hyper miling and drafting of the truck for some 40 KM's

I keep hearing about QC stations opening up "soon" in the area but nothing yet. There is lots of Level 2 around for quick urban mini fills but I think the real game will start with EV's when there are a pile of L3's in the area.

I posted a small video of the canion screen on the way home.

http://youtu.be/-Bao2JLag3E


Don.....

 

[PV1]

Wow, the anti-shake on your camera is amazing!

I need to get to a quick charger, just to experience it.

 

[Malm]

I did many videos with canion and myimiev. I think most of you had seen them. I try to watch every video done about the i-MiEV. So, it´s great to have one more doing them. Thanks.

 

[JoeS]

DonDakin, thank you for posting and your video. At over 120A DCQC, it makes our debate over L1 vs. L2 rather moot. Nice to see your battery temperatures staying reasonable.

Hopefully, the DCQC infrastructure continues developing, as PIHs monopolizing public charging stations is becoming the norm around here.

After being seriously rear-ended in my Insight while doing 60mph on the Interstate with no one in front of me in June, I now think that following trucks presents a better visual barrier to the speeders coming from behind, with our primary concern being debris on the road showing up unexpectedly from under the truck.

BTW, this thread might consist of three "Maximum Miles Driven in One Day" categories: L1, L2, and CHAdeMO