lev50n cells in Europe in 2023

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niko1200222

Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2023
Messages
10
Location
Varna, Bulgaria
Hello, guys,

Second hand iMIev owner for four months and really love the size of the car. The battery is in bad shape - 51% SoH. I'm looking to buy new lev50n cells for my iMiev in Europe. Can't find any source on internet. Are those cells available? Are there any alternatives that will easily fit in iMiev?

Thanks in advance!
 
Found this from a link on the diy car site, the LEV50 used in our cars is close to the BEV-2 sized cells

VDA.jpg


Here is a link to translate the article,
https://e--cars-hu.translate.goog/2019/07/08/meruljunk-el-a-peugeot-ion-citroen-c-zero-es-a-mitsubishi-i-miev-akkumulatoraban/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp
 
niko1200222 said:
The battery is in bad shape - 51% SoH. I'm looking to buy new lev50n cells for my iMiev in Europe. Can't find any source on internet. Are those cells available? Are there any alternatives that will easily fit in iMiev?
Thanks in advance!

Hi there and welcome to the forum,

First of all your 51% SoH could be too low if the battery calibration procedure wasn’t done on a regular basis. You could run a CAP2 procedure with a dongle and OBDZero app to verify the ‘true’ SoH.

Secondly, new, affordable LEV50N cells are almost impossible to source, your next best bet would be a decent pack from a car wreck.

And last but not least there are no plug & play alternatives, any DIY 3rd party cell upgrade requires a BMU ‘hack’ to make it work.

There is however one commercial solution available that basically doubles the original range, but the nearest garage for you would be in Hungary…

https://www.ozelectricvehicles.com/licensed-installers-a

Mickey
 
kiev said:
Found this from a link on the diy car site, the LEV50 used in our cars is close to the BEV-2 sized cells

Here is a link to translate the article,
https://e--cars-hu.translate.goog/2019/07/08/meruljunk-el-a-peugeot-ion-citroen-c-zero-es-a-mitsubishi-i-miev-akkumulatoraban/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Hello, Kenny,

Thanks for that link, sounds like an optimistic information. The end of the article says:

If you take a closer look at the table, the BEV2 size is almost exactly the size of the LEV50, but the minimum capacity is 60-66Ah. So I think that anyone who wants to change the cells in the trio is better off waiting a little while until the BEV2 size cells designed and manufactured for the Germans are on the market, and then the battery can be renewed without a major conversion.

Wondering what "without a major conversion" means... I'll google more about those cells. Thanks!
 
MickeyS70 said:
First of all your 51% SoH could be too low if the battery calibration procedure wasn’t done on a regular basis. You could run a CAP2 procedure with a dongle and OBDZero app to verify the ‘true’ SoH.

I haven't done CAP2 procedure. I'm tempted to do it, but part of the instructions are a little bit not clear for me:

Please turn the car off and then plug in the charger. Let the app run but do not turn the car on.

I thought I can use the ODB only when the car is on? Maybe I'll need to read more about this. I'll def try it!

MickeyS70 said:
Secondly, new, affordable LEV50N cells are almost impossible to source, your next best bet would be a decent pack from a car wreck.

And last but not least there are no plug & play alternatives, any DIY 3rd party cell upgrade requires a BMU ‘hack’ to make it work.

Yeah, coudn't find not even a single offer in internet. I don't want to buy second hand cells... they will be probably same as mine.


MickeyS70 said:
There is however one commercial solution available that basically doubles the original range, but the nearest garage for you would be in Hungary…

https://www.ozelectricvehicles.com/licensed-installers-a

Yes, I found those guys from a video from youtube and I thought it would be easy to replace the battery. Basically because of them I risked to buy this old EV. Too bad they don't have dealership somewhere closer to me. ANyways I wrote them an email to ask for more information, will see what they will reply (if they)


My current range when I start the car is around 50km now in the winter and was around 60 in the summer. I'm using the car for groceries and for now its enought for me, but sometimes I get the turtle mode even when the battery is even 50% full, so its not reliable and Its a little bit stressing when going back home as I live on top of a hill :)

Thanks both of you for the warm welcome and the useful information!
 
i think when they say "turn on", that is the key in the ON position, but not trying to start to READY. The key has to be turned to ACC or ON in order for CAN Buss to go active on the OBDII port for the dongle/app.

During charging the key can be turned to ON with no problem, but not to START (i never tried it so don't know what would happen)
 
My current range when I start the car is around 50km now in the winter and was around 60 in the summer. I'm using the car for groceries and for now its enought for me, but sometimes I get the turtle mode even when the battery is even 50% full….
The tortoise symbol is triggered by two events:

1. SoC < 10% (not in your case)
2. Individual Cell voltage < 3V

This is usually due to a weak cell and more pronounced in cold weather and high current events (acceleration) during low SoC. Sometimes balancing can improve things but your correct, ultimately you need to replace the complete pack…
 
maybe the cells are out of balance?
i would try to charge full and monitor the voltages

read somwhere the app hobdrive can do a forced balance but i dont have further information on this.
that what i know is hobdrive can do a recalibration to real capacity

have done this on my imiev and got 46Ah of 48Ah(new)
2016 battery with 25000km, i know i am one of few people who are lucky to have near full capacity

my winter range with insulated heater on low is 90km
in summer 140km with AC off and 130km with AC on

still, i need more range but cant afford it now...
made 6000km in half a year
5500km with free solar energy from my roof and 500km fast charge
i cant complain, its a nice car if there ar no electrical problems...
 
maybe the cells are out of balance?
i would try to charge full and monitor the voltages

read somwhere the app hobdrive can do a forced balance but i dont have further information on this.
that what i know is hobdrive can do a recalibration to real capacity

Thank a lot for this reply, ghostdriver. I see screen called Voltage Smoothing in HobDrive - probably is this? I'll try it tomorrow, but atm my 220v ac charger (or OBC) stopped working and I have to fix this first :) Will post the results as soon as I get to it!
 
Thank a lot for this reply, ghostdriver. I see screen called Voltage Smoothing in HobDrive - probably is this? I'll try it tomorrow, but atm my 220v ac charger (or OBC) stopped working and I have to fix this first :) Will post the results as soon as I get to it!
Yes, that’s the function, it can be a bit hit and miss to use it, therefore check the balance at 100% SOC and again at 50% when idle. If there are no big differences (less than 50mV) get a friend to drive hard so that the tortoise appears and look for outliers (or use OBDZero logging function, if driving on your own)
 
I see screen called Voltage Smoothing in HobDrive - probably is this?
i think yes,
now i remember a russian guy did did this. it take days to complete because the internal balancer balances with 50mA or so.
but like Mickey said watch the voltages first if they are all good at 100% then i assume you have a faulty cell or the capacity need to force recalibrated in hob drive( if you cant spot a faulty cell at low soc)

if you get turtle at 50% then something can be bad, maybe a cell or two
well anyway its worth to try with hobdrive
 
Drive around with your hobdrive on, cell voltage screen, you will see the problem is voltage sag in one or more cells, which means they are getting to the end of their life. (good voltage stationary but under load, they dip below 3V thus triggering turtle.) When this happens, you have to stop for a while to let cells cool down.

Hobdrive cell balancing fixes a different problem (cells out of sync).

At least that's been my experience.
 
Hello, Kenny,

Thanks for that link, sounds like an optimistic information. The end of the article says:



Wondering what "without a major conversion" means... I'll google more about those cells. Thanks!

BEV2 format cells are used in the BMW i3 (NB: WITHOUT bolts) at much higher capacity, however the chemistry is quite different - meaning you would have to change out the entire pack, work out a way of interfacing/interconnecting each cell (heavy duty spot welder?) _and_ hack on the BMU

At that point the Hungarian option is probably worthwhile, but for European triplets you might want to consider frame corrosion.

I've just received a headsup that my 2012 Ion (operated in the south of England its entire life) has visible frame rust in the rear and without dropping the pack out it is impossible to see the full extent of the damage

As with any old car, keeping it on life support may end up being an ever-larger moneypit and I'm not sure that spending €9k for a new battery pack is worthwhile on a car which would still only be worth €6k at most. If they weren't so rust-prone it might be a different tale but these are essentially JDM cars with the very cursory JDM rustproofing that implies

NB: Almost all the problems people report are in cars which have LEV50 cells - LEV50N cars (mid 2013 onwards) seem to have much better battery longevity

WRT the comment about spootting the sagging cell(s) - these will usually be the same cells which reach 4.1V before all the others (particularly on fast chargers). It's worth making notes and taking cell voltage screenshots at _both_ ends of the charge cycle


For what it's worth: My experience is that if you think you need to change 4 cells you probably need to change the worst 16-30, or else you'll be pulling the pack out of the car several more times - and the connectors/assembly are only rated for a few mating cycles so this is a bad idea

That said: Having spent £2000 putting "new" (old) cells my my car (cells plus labour), I wouldn't recommend doing it. Whilst the replacement cells are fine, the rest of the pack is in only slightly better condition than the "dud" ones (balancing procedures see to that) - I originally replaced 16 cells where only 4 were obviously faulty and 1.5 years later there are another 16 which are clearly in need of replacement (I'd actually supplied 32 cells to be changed out but the installer took it upon themselves to decide that the ones I'd said needed changing were ok - this is a west UK company which promoted itself heavily as a UK car specialist. The owners eventually admitted that they know nothing about cell chemistry - nor do they want to. This is probably why there are so many problems with repowered Leafs from the same shop)

In short, on older triplets with pack SOH down to 60%, the only viable long term battery fix is complete replacement - see above as to why I don't think this is a good idea on these cars (rust!), bearing in mind that unless you obtain LEV50Ns, you'll have the same problem in a few years - These cells have a "use by" date in addition to the charge cycle limitation and most (even the LEV50Ns) are over a decade old at this point

I bought my 2012 Ion as a "project car" to experiment with EVs, and don't really regret it, but from a pure economics point of view the TOC has been about the same as a petrol car of the same age
 
BEV2 format cells are used in the BMW i3 (NB: WITHOUT bolts) at much higher capacity, however the chemistry is quite different - meaning you would have to change out the entire pack, work out a way of interfacing/interconnecting each cell (heavy duty spot welder?) _and_ hack on the BMU

At that point the Hungarian option is probably worthwhile, but for European triplets you might want to consider frame corrosion.

I've just received a headsup that my 2012 Ion (operated in the south of England its entire life) has visible frame rust in the rear and without dropping the pack out it is impossible to see the full extent of the damage

As with any old car, keeping it on life support may end up being an ever-larger moneypit and I'm not sure that spending €9k for a new battery pack is worthwhile on a car which would still only be worth €6k at most. If they weren't so rust-prone it might be a different tale but these are essentially JDM cars with the very cursory JDM rustproofing that implies

NB: Almost all the problems people report are in cars which have LEV50 cells - LEV50N cars (mid 2013 onwards) seem to have much better battery longevity

WRT the comment about spootting the sagging cell(s) - these will usually be the same cells which reach 4.1V before all the others (particularly on fast chargers). It's worth making notes and taking cell voltage screenshots at _both_ ends of the charge cycle


For what it's worth: My experience is that if you think you need to change 4 cells you probably need to change the worst 16-30, or else you'll be pulling the pack out of the car several more times - and the connectors/assembly are only rated for a few mating cycles so this is a bad idea

That said: Having spent £2000 putting "new" (old) cells my my car (cells plus labour), I wouldn't recommend doing it. Whilst the replacement cells are fine, the rest of the pack is in only slightly better condition than the "dud" ones (balancing procedures see to that) - I originally replaced 16 cells where only 4 were obviously faulty and 1.5 years later there are another 16 which are clearly in need of replacement (I'd actually supplied 32 cells to be changed out but the installer took it upon themselves to decide that the ones I'd said needed changing were ok - this is a west UK company which promoted itself heavily as a UK car specialist. The owners eventually admitted that they know nothing about cell chemistry - nor do they want to. This is probably why there are so many problems with repowered Leafs from the same shop)

In short, on older triplets with pack SOH down to 60%, the only viable long term battery fix is complete replacement - see above as to why I don't think this is a good idea on these cars (rust!), bearing in mind that unless you obtain LEV50Ns, you'll have the same problem in a few years - These cells have a "use by" date in addition to the charge cycle limitation and most (even the LEV50Ns) are over a decade old at this point

I bought my 2012 Ion as a "project car" to experiment with EVs, and don't really regret it, but from a pure economics point of view the TOC has been about the same as a petrol car of the same age
I have the BMW cells. I'm going to try rebuilding my pack with them. What I worry about is in the BMW they are compressed. In the Mitsubishi there's air between all the cells so I'm not sure if compression is required with the BMW cells or not.
 
I have the BMW cells. I'm going to try rebuilding my pack with them. What I worry about is in the BMW they are compressed. In the Mitsubishi there's air between all the cells so I'm not sure if compression is required with the BMW cells or not.
Hi
If I remember correctly the I3 cells are welded together in 12S packs and are liquid cooled. The Imiev battery is air cooled and split in 10x8cell and 2x4cell blocks.

You either tear down the BMW pack into individual cells or try to fit as many 12s packs as possible (and make up the rest with single cells), either way it’s going to be a tricky to assemble and connect to the CMU boards.

Given the challenge you’re already facing, I would not worry too much about compression.

But as stoatwblr already mentioned, fitting the I3 cells is only first hurdle…

Mickey
 
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