Jakob N's Cell Change Thread

[Jakob N]

Hi,
I am from austria, and drive a 2011 Citroen Zero.
I already had my fair share of trouble with this car:
2022 OBC- fail; sucessfully reopaired
2024 rusted crossmembers under battery and quickly deminuishing capacity; fabraicated new crossmembers and changed all 88 LEV50 cells
after installing the refreshed battery last friday the car started just fine, but after some driving around and doing a full inspection (headlights on!) the car wouldn't start anymore and gave me the P1A15 error.
I was able to resett it and drive around a bit, then reset it again to be able to charge it. The car is now cahrging and getting used to the new capacity.

I am now not sure if the P1A15 error might have been from a low 12V battery, cause it had been sitting diconnected for some months. I will charge it nopw and test it on the electronic load tomorrow.

Hopefully the error will not come back again, but just in case I ordered an AD202KY from Mouser; I want th make a board and store it so I can install it quickly when I need it.

Does anyone have a design for the board, or can give me the measurements for the connectors of the hybrid- board?
The boards that have been made so far are for the horizontal installation variant of the AD202, The -KY is used in vertical position as far as I can sse, thats why I want to fabricate my own board.


Thanks a lot,

BR

Jakob

 

[Jakob N]

I think you are right.
When the error first came up the 12V battery had been sitting and discharging for quite a while; Now after fully charging the car the error didn't come on again.
Maybe I am lucky, and don't need to replace anything just now.
I have been testing the 12V battery today, and it was a bit on the low side, but now bad.
I charged it with the bench- powersupply, and also tested it with a 30A electronic laod. Luckily it seems to still work fine.
No I need to wait for the car to recognise the new capacity of the main- battery.
Does anyone know a way to tell the MCU to recalculate the capacity without a scan- tool (I only have an OBDlink LX and don't think I can do it with this.)


BR
Jakob

 

[kiev]

Does anyone know a way to tell the MCU to recalculate the capacity without a scan- tool

Drive the car down to below 2 bars on the fuel gauge, then plug in to AC charge on Level 1 or 2, and let the charging run to Full and cut off on its own after balancing.

This is the standard calibration procedure as described in the owner's manual.

This does not affect or involve the MCU; the capacity value is measured and stored in the BMU.

 

[Jakob N]

Thanks for the quick reply.
I will try to deplete the battery while not driving to far from home; I still don't know how far I will be able to go with the new cells.
When I charged the car for the first time after installing the battery I was able to read a charge of 116,9%. But this can very well be because of the new cells having a different cahrge level than the old ones had.

I will try to perform the procedure and report back.

BR
Jakob

 

[Sandrosan]

Hi Jakob, which cell have you installed in the traction battery pack? And ? Can I ask where did you buy them and how much? Thanks Sandrosan from Italy

 

[MickeyS70]

Does anyone know a way to tell the MCU to recalculate the capacity without a scan- tool (I only have an OBDlink LX and don't think I can do it with this.)

@kiev is correct, the BMU will automatically adjust the capacity over time doing the ‘native’ procedure mentioned.

It has been reported that the BMU only allows changes of +/-2Ah per month, therefore this may take a while.

Alternatively you can do this with your OBDLink dongle and HobDrive App (paid version) in one go…

 

[martinwinlow]

Hi,
I am from austria, and drive a 2011 Citroen Zero.
...
2024 rusted crossmembers under battery and quickly .... fabraicated new crossmembers ....
Jakob

I'm inclined to think that the only purpose the cross-members serve is to provide something for the plastic underpan to attach to. Having had a battery off 2 clones so far, the brackets that attach to the sides of the battery box and thence to the 'chassis' look entirely self supporting.

 

[MickeyS70]

I'm inclined to think that the only purpose the cross-members serve is to provide something for the plastic underpan to attach to. Having had a battery off 2 clones so far, the brackets that attach to the sides of the battery box and thence to the 'chassis' look entirely self supporting.

Very true, therefore I’m inclined to think that Jakob was more worried about loosing the battery pack than the support of the chassis..

 

[michael8554]

"I will try to deplete the battery while not driving to far from home;"

Finish off at home with the heater running ?

 

[Jakob N]

Hi Jakob, which cell have you installed in the traction battery pack? And ? Can I ask where did you buy them and how much? Thanks Sandrosan from Italy

I got them used, from a guy who was dismantelling his emergency- power- supply. I paid 19€ per cell, which still is over 1600€ for the whole pack.
But since the car was essentially free (got it for repairing the OBC) I figured it was worth a try.



The old ones had started to inflate quite substanially:

It has been reported that the BMU only allows changes of +/-2Ah per month, therefore this may take a while.

I had read about this, and it is great to have this confirmed. I bought HobDrive, and will test this.

Very true, therefore I’m inclined to think that Jakob was more worried about loosing the battery pack than the support of the chassis..

Correct. I was told I would not be able to pass MOT with the rusted crossmemebers, and cause I was not able to find good ones I fabricated them myself from 1,5mm sheet- metal.





During assembly I noticed that the plastic cover has a mesh of stainless- steel inside. I guess that this is for EMC- reasons because it is electrically pretty well connected to the crossmembers.
I am sure that this mesh is the reason that the crossmembers are rusting away that fast, and the rest of the car is in nearly perfect condition. (contact- corrosion!)

BR

 

[Jakob N]

I just downloaded HobDrive (full version) but can not get it to start; It will show the start screen, then after some seconds close and go back to the home screen.
I am using an android phone; Oneplus Nord 2 CE lite.
Any suggestions?

BR

 

[kiev]

During assembly I noticed that the plastic cover has a mesh of stainless- steel inside. I guess that this is for EMC- reasons

This is a great finding of something we didn't know--thanks for sharing the details of your build.

Excellent job on rebuilding the supports!

 

[MickeyS70]

I just downloaded HobDrive (full version) but can not get it to start; It will show the start screen, then after some seconds close and go back to the home screen.
I am using an android phone; Oneplus Nord 2 CE lite.
Any suggestions?

BR

HobDrive is a bit tricky to configure, have a look @Rational ’s excellent videos (post#9)

https://myimiev.com/threads/smartphone-tablet-apps-for-i-miev-c-zero-and-ion.4936/

 

[Jakob N]

Some good, and some not so good news.
I got HobDrive started yesterday by using my old phone. Seems to have a problem with the new android version or something.
Connecting was easy using rationald videos; thanks for that!

Now to the bad news: I could not get the car to start, and always got the P1A15 error.
Last time it was just a matter of resetting it once or twice, and then it ran.
I am suspecting that it might have something to do with the temperatures, ao that the voltage measurements are drifting more depending on temperature, as was suggested in the P1A15 thread.

I fear that the only thing left now it to take out the inverter and try to replace the hybrid- board.
I already received an AD202KY, but could not draw and fabricate a PCB, cause I don't have the measurements of the hybrid- board.

Does anyone have them, so I can make a board before tearig down the inverter?
At work we have a PCB- mill; It has not been used for quite some toime, but I could try to make a carrier board.

Otherwise I would try to glue the AD202 into the inverter, and connect everything with short cables.
Any thoughts on that?

BR

Jakob

 

[MickeyS70]

Does anyone have them, so I can make a board before tearig down the inverter?
At work we have a PCB- mill; It has not been used for quite some toime, but I could try to make a carrier board.

Otherwise I would try to glue the AD202 into the inverter, and connect everything with short cables.
Any thoughts on that?

BR

Jakob

There are some pics and pcb layouts in the thread below, post #422/473

https://myimiev.com/threads/the-p1a...5-error-condenser-charge-timeout.4225/page-22

 

[Jakob N]

I've seen those posts (read the whole thread!) and this is great.
However what I miss is the measurements of the pins from the hybrid- board.
Whith these measurements I could redraw the outline of the old hybrid- board and insert the new AD202, and make a board which can simply be soldered in.

@GregFordyce made a similar board, but only for the horizontal version of the AD202 which is not available any more; The new one is placed vertivally into the PCB.

Maybe someone has a Hybrid board lying around and could make the measurements? I would need the size of the board, and the pins position relative to the outline, as well as their function.


BR

 

[MickeyS70]

The new one is placed vertivally into the PCB.

The physical placement of the chip seems irrelevant and pinout can be seen in post # 473?

Folks either ‘fix’ the hybrid board with the resistor trick or replace it with the (now obsolete) AD202, doubt many have kept the faulty one as a souvenir.

Looks like you’re the first to try the replacement chip, no pressure

 

[Jakob N]

Yes, the other fixes seem to use the AD202KN instead of the KY type. The only difference is that mine is a SIP (singel-inline-package) instead of a DIP (dual-inline- package)
Eletrically they are identical as far as I can see. so this should not be a problem.
I wanted to make a custom board to have averything tidied up, but I think I will make a quick fix by glueing the part in and connecting everything with wires.
I will report back when the fix is finished.

BR

Jakob

 

[Jakob N]

I wanted to give a quick update.
I was ablöe to get HobDrive running, and copuld see that the ECU was measuring a difference of 20V between the BMS and the inverter.
So I figured that the Hybrid- board is defective on my car too.
On saturday I took out the inverter from the car, and opened it up.




I desoldered the Hybrid- board, and built a carrier- board for the AD202-KY:




I finally used some SikaFlex to fix it to the board, and seal the lid.

After reinstalling the inverter the car came right back to live:


I will do the measurements of the bord this week, and make a custom board- file, so it will be easieer for others to do the fix themselves.
I will post the files here as soon as I find time to do it.

One problem I still have:
I need to get the car to recalcultate the capacity.
I tried running it down to the last bar, and then wanted to start the procedure in HobDrive, but it failed.
Is there some better instructions?
Maybe it was because the cells still had some juice left in them (were not at the 3,8V per cell) but the OBDZero showd -1% SOC
I had the idea to have the car running with the heater on, until it shuts down.
Then I can restart it from 0% SOC.
Hoepfully that would help.
Any thoughts?

BR

Jakob

 

[kiev]

Good job on replacing the hybrid board, thanks for sharing the pictures.

For calibration: Just plug in a Level 1 or 2 EVSE charging unit and let it charge to Full until it stops on its own (balancing completed). This is the standard calibration procedure as described in the owners manual.

How does the cell voltage level look at the low state of charge (below 2 fuel gauge bars blinking)? Are they evenly balanced or is there a low cell? Min/Max/Average cell voltage is helpful.