Important Warning - MiEV Unsafe At Any Speed

[peter1962]

Hello,

In May 2013 I purchased a new, 2012 MiEV - ES. I live and work in Minneapolis and drove the car 23,000 since purchase with no problems. I have read with interest this forum.

On Nov 5 2014 my 16 year old son was driving the car on a city street and when attempting to stop the brakes in this car did not function at all. He crashed (rear ended, as we Americans would call it) into another car. The airbags deployed. My son required medical attention. Necessary repairs exceed market value.

Approximately two weeks prior to this accident, I received a Mits Recall notice, number 14V-522. The recall notice requested the vehicle to be serviced via routine scheduled appointment.

With this accident, I have more closely examined this recall notice, and have reviewed the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) information. Some things are clear ... Mits has been aware of a safety defect in the car since 2009. The recall notice notes - "brake vacuum pump may become inoperable." What my son indicated was when he went to stop, there was no brake available at all. The evening of the accident, I tried the brakes and there was no brake pressure at all.

The NHTSA recall notice states the "number of potentially involved" cars is 1810. The recall notice also states that the "estimated percentage with defect" is 100 percent. Wikepedia references that the number of MiEV's sold in the US until August 2014 is "over 1800." My read of this is every MiEV sold in the US, since introduction, is covered under this recall and that 100 percent of the cars sold have this defect.

The real world experience of my son is that if this defect occurs with your car, it is a catastrophic event since the brakes fail entirely.

It is my conclusion, and warning to this group of people, that MiEV's covered by this recall (all of them, I believe) are UNSAFE TO DRIVE AT ANY SPEED.

 

[PV1]

Sorry to hear about your son. I hope he and any others involved are okay.

1,810 vehicles is roughly the number of i-MiEVs sold in the US, though the recall covers all model years of the i-MiEV, including those in other countries. US i-MiEVs are either 2012 or 2014 model years. I personally have not received a recall notice for the brake pump, though I did get one for underbody rust. We did have a recall that I was a part of last year to replace the brake pump. So, there have been two recalls so far on the brake pump.

It is also important to remember that if you do experience a pump failure (this is the first report I've heard of a pump failure), putting the i-MiEV in B mode and using the emergency brake can slow the car in a relatively quick manner, though be cautioned about the rear wheels locking up since all braking by this method is at the rear wheels only. I can't recommend you do this, but serves solely as a reminder of the car's functionality, and this is performed at your own risk.

I do have a few questions about the car if you don't mind.
1. Since the airbags did deploy, can the car be started and the READY light illuminate on the dashboard (accompanied by two dings)?
2. Do you hear the pump kick on at all when turning the key on? Did the pump do this prior to the crash?
3. Did the low pressure alarm sound (accompanied by the BRAKE light on the dash) when the brake pump failed?

 

[JoeS]

peter1962, sorry to hear about your son's accident.

Conventional braking systems have a hydraulic brake and a vacuum brake booster. Even if the vacuum booster goes out, hydraulic pressure is still applied and the brakes still work, albeit requiring greater pedal pressure. The i-MiEV does one better and has regenerative braking which further assists in slowing the car. Starting about 40 years ago, independent hydraulic circuits were put into place which allowed braking even if part of the hydraulic system failed (e.g., my 1967 Saab has dual diagonal brake circuits).

When you say "I tried the brakes and there was no brake pressure at all", does that mean you pushed the pedal to the floor and no braking pressure was being exerted? Did you have a "Ready" display on the dashboard?

I think all of us will be very interested in any follow-up forensic technical analyses that may be performed.

 

[peter1962]

I appreciate the seriousness of my post, and I will try to answer any question I can.

A context for questions ... my son was traveling on a busy (6 pm - rush hour), stop and go, 4 lane divided, suburban street with retail on both sides of the street meaning lots of turn lanes and traffic activity. The brakes on the car always worked wonderfully, until they didn't.

So consider the moment ... he's driving down the street, needs to stop, attempts to use the brakes he is familar with and they don't work. To the extent he should have "pumped aggressively", utilized the parking brake, expected the car to slow via regenative braking, there just wasn't enough seconds in the moment to stop this car and avoid crashing into the vehicle ahead of him.

Question ... Since the airbags did deploy, can the car be started and the READY light illuminate on the dashboard (accompanied by two dings)? Answer ... about an hour after the accident, I got there. No, the car would not go into READY light.

Question ... Do you hear the pump kick on at all when turning the key on? Answer ... I drove the car for over a year and normally when I start the car I do not hear a pump. (I do hear this on my Lincoln MKS).

Question ... Did the pump do this prior to the crash? Answer ... Until the moment of crash, the car operated exactly as it always had, again until it didn't.

Question ... Did the low pressure alarm sound (accompanied by the BRAKE light on the dash) when the brake pump failed? Answer ... I have read the NHTSA, Part 573 Safety Recall Report, No 14V-522 and it states that if the defect occurs, "the brake warning lamp will illuminate and an audible warning will alert the vehicle operator ..." My son does not recall any warning light coming on, although in the instant where he needed to use the brake the light may have come on but of course this would not have been sufficient to avoid the crash.

Question ... [clarification on my observation ...] sic Peter states - "I tried the brakes and there was no brake pressure at all", does that mean you pushed the pedal to the floor and no braking pressure was being exerted? Answer ... It took me an hour to get to my son at the accident location. I was mostly interested in the welfare of my son. I did get into the car and attempt to start. It would go into "READY" mode and when I tried the brakes then went to the floor.

I think what happened here is the brakes worked exactly as they always did until the instant he went to stop the car in traffic and they instantly failed (think computer failure ... works until it doesnt). The brakes didn't stop the car and he crashed.

These MiEV's covered by this defect are unsafe to drive at any speed.

 

[PV1]

So, judging by the car's behavior, it sounds like there a programming issue with the ABS (though the ABS shouldn't be able to de-pressurize the brake system completely and allow the pedal to go to the floor, IMO), since if there was no vacuum (pump not activating), the pedal would be difficult to move, but you'd still have a good pump or two before losing the vacuum assist. The fact that the pedal went to the floor means there was no brake pressure. This could be caused by a ruptured brake line, air in the lines, or low on fluid.

It is possible now, after the accident, that a brake line is broken, hence the pedal went all the way to the floor. But, in a panic, you usually don't realize how hard you're pushing the brake pedal and could overcome a loss of vacuum. Personal experience, someone pulled out in front of me while driving the Cavalier before I got the i-MiEV. I didn't realize right away how hard I was pushing the brake pedal, and I overcome the pumping of the ABS and nearly locked the rear tires.

Here is the sound the brake pump makes. Note that this is the old pump, which has been replaced by the newer, quieter pump, but they sound similar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNxcDcLgWV0&list=UUVhYBcZRg7u7tDb0hoDnRug

I'm sitting in the passenger seat reaching across and pumping the brake pedal. You might need to turn your volume up.

On second thought, the airbags wouldn't be the only thing preventing READY. Inertia switches in the battery are probably activated.

 

[peter1962]

Mits was aware of problem going back to May 2011. Go to safercar.gov, find complaints of MiEV, go to Recall notices, go to NHTSA campaign number 14V52200, see "associated documents", see document labeled "Chronology."

See NHTSA incident number 10564009. Brakes failed in a parking lot, car A ran into car B, airbags deployed (just like my son ... airbags are relatively slow speed?). See comment about "blunt force trauma of airbags" ... he's dead, my friends.

I have filed an NHTSA incident. It is number 10653848 but apparently takes a while to get pushed onto the website. I have also notified Mits (who assigned a case investigator), and my insurance company.

There are 3 other complaints for braking system failures. With mine, that's 4 complaints. Let's assume there is 1 more failure in the US related to that. My math is that's .3% failure of the most important system in your car.

 

[jray3]

Peter, I see that your complaint has now posted to safer car.gov
I'm sorry to hear of you son's accident, but thank you for spreading the word. (It is a good thing that this forum enables such direct communication rather than relying on the gummint or coruptorations). I'm concerned now because the impression had been that if the pump failed we'd get a warning and one more good stop from the reservoir, plus unassisted braking if one was inattentive past that point.
This is much more serious.
I just spoke with my dealer again. They were waiting on supplies for the bolt corrosion fix, but will go ahead and do the ECM reflash on Thursday.

 

[danpatgal]

I saw the three complaints at safercar.gov, yours and two others. One mentions the death due to blunt trauma from the air bag, in the other crash they implicated a corroded battery post (???). Neither of those complaints refer to a brake failure or seem to relate to the vacuum pump recall.

Based on what you've described, fixing the vacuum booster would not have helped prevent your son's accident (which, incidentally, I am sorry to hear about it and hope his neck is ok). Something else would have to fail for there to be NO brake pressure whatsoever. Perhaps others can comment on the iMiev specifically, but I know that when I removed my vacuum brakes in my other EV, it is more difficult to stop, but I still stop fine, even when other drivers give me little notice.

Without more details and investigation I think it's premature for you to imply the iMiev is "Unsafe At Any Speed". I acknowledge you must have some pretty negative and powerful emotions after the accident, anyone in your situation would. But, you've levied some pretty serious allegations that to date has no precedent. I think your story is either absolutely damning (completely failed brakes !?!?!) or lacking in some other detail.

 

[PV1]

One mentions the death due to blunt trauma from the air bag, in the other crash they implicated a corroded battery post (???)

The fatality (is the i-MiEV the first EV in the US to have a fatality?) involves blood-thinners, but it doesn't say what caused the accident. Did somebody pull out in front of him and the i-MiEV pushed car A sideways into car B? It doesn't explain the fault in the accident, only that the airbag combined with blood thinners caused the fatality.

The other one, was it the 12 volt battery with a corroded post or the main pack? It doesn't say, and that is a major piece of information left out, IMO. We can fix 12 volt battery corrosion ourselves, but not traction pack without voiding warranties.

 

[Don]

First, very sorry to hear about your son's accident - I hope he (or anyone else) wasn't badly hurt

I agree with the others that it certainly looks like there's more going on here than meets the eye. Mitsu has never identified any problem where the brake pedal goes to the floor. I suspect the hydraulic system was compromised in the accident

The brake problem(s) Mitsu has identified all have to do with a vacuum failure, not a total brake failure. ANY car with vacuum assisted power brakes will still stop just fine in the event of a vacuum failure. You do have to press harder on the pedal, but stopping distances would not be markedly longer. The brakes are hydraulic and the vacuum assist just reduces the pedal pressure required. This became just about standard equipment with the introduction of disc brakes which required more pedal pressure

As Joe mentioned, ALL braking systems on ALL cars are dual, so even if the front or rear brakes fail, both do not fail at the same time *and* you get a warning light - In such an event, stopping distances are longer, but there's never 'no brakes'. Most every time in an accident where the driver reports a total loss of brakes, the accident investigation later shows the operator was pressing the wrong pedal - Cars have been driven through buildings in this scenario

Mitsu was aware in 2011 that the OEM vacuum pump was subject to failure and all cars were recalled for the installation of a different vacuum pump. This recall wasn't a serious 'don't drive the car until it's upgraded' thing, because even in the event of a pump failure (and complete loss of vacuum) you still had serviceable brakes. No big emergency and you got a warning light on the dash as soon as the vacuum went way, even before you tried to stop in most cases. This latest recall also has to do with a vacuum problem and not any loss of brakes

My personal experience with a 16 year old driver (my daughter) was that she was involved in three separate collisions where she rear ended someone because "there wasn't time to stop" . . . . before she learned that leaving more room (and thereby extra time) to stop was her responsibility . . . . and if she's not looking at the road in front of her 100% of the time (which is very typical with many young drivers) she needed a LOT more room. I'm not saying this has anything to do with your son's accident, but there is at least the remote possibility that a 16 year old, inexperienced driver somehow added to the equation which resulted in an accident - It just possibly could be more of an operator error than a highly unlikely, very rare, total, immediate brake failure. What are the odds of this happening at the very instant a panic stop was required?

Pressing the pedal and getting no brakes at all isn't just rare for an iMiEV - It's extremely rare for it to happen with ANY car built since 1970 or so and one such instance (if it's eventually proven that this actually happened) would not make every other similar car "Unsafe At Any Speed". This wasn't even the case when Nader wrote the book about Corvairs in the sixties. Like many other cars made before and since, it was possible for an inexperienced, panic stricken driver to get a Corvair upside down, but for 99% of ordinary drivers, the car was perfectly safe. Your son's experience does not give me any worry at all that something similar might happen to myself or my wife driving our iMiEV - None at all

Don

 

[peter1962]

I will update group on outcome. I have spoken to Mits today. In that call, the rep acknowledged improper programming of the engine control unit (ECU) can cause the brake vacuum pump to fail. This is nothing more than what they have already acknowledged.

I agree with observations that cars have long had redundant brake systems that still provide braking but would require significantly more brake pumping help. In stop-and-go traffic and probably a moment of "new driver panic" when the brakes didn't operate as expected, my son simply didn't know or have time to pump. But I've driven cars for a long time and never remember suddenly the 'power' part of braking instantly fail and require manual pumping.

I will leave you to conclude what you want. Please don't overlook what Mits is publically acknowledging ... the "improper programming of the EV-ECU" can lead to brake vacuum pump failure.

I also find it alarming airbags are being activated in accidents of little speed.

State Farm is not going to pay someone to check the ECU of this car to determine if the programming error caused this accident. Mits was clear with me they will not do any investigation and leave it to State Farm. Shortly, I am sure State Farm will compensate me, they will subrogate for losses, Mits will pay up to be done with it. Mits will bank on the recall to get the programming correction to the ECU into the field. With the limited production of this car, it’s the right business strategy.

Best wishes. I'll never drive one of these again because they are not safe.

 

[PV1]

While I respect your decision, please don't let one incident sour your opinion on the entire line of i-MiEVs, or EVs in general. While it's impossible to tell exactly what went wrong (especially since it looks like no one will fund an investigation), it's not unlikely that a similar failure could happen in any vehicle. Our old Tahoe had an issue with the ABS, that when below 5 MPH, the ABS would engage and make it difficult to stop. Since our vehicle wasn't covered under the recall (for that exact issue), we disabled the ABS completely, and still felt safe driving it. My Cavalier had issues with the ABS randomly engaging while driving. Ended up being a faulty sensor.

My own i-MiEV, twice I've had my airbag light come on. Once had my regen disable completely due to the wrong sized tires I had put on. I still feel completely safe driving the i-MiEV.

 

[siai47]

I will most likely get scolded for this, but I don't understand what's going on with the OP. First, a vacuum pump failure and loss of vacuum to the brake booster will not allow the "pedal to go to the floor" or cause any loss of the hydraulic brake system. Even if one of the two hydraulic systems failed (or were damaged in the accident) the pedal won't go to the floor and you don't have to "pump" the brake pedal to get the system to work. Without vacuum, the pedal pressure will be higher and if you are not expecting it, the reaction time will be longer before you realize you need to put more pressure on the pedal to stop the car. The ABS system will still function normally. Even with pump failure, there is still vacuum stored in the chamber at the booster that should get you a couple of stops after any warning lights about pump failure comes on (if in fact the pump did fail). I just went out and checked my own I-MiEV and I could get three full booster assisted stops from the reserve vacuum in the booster before the pedal got harder to push. And after the vacuum was gone, the pedal did not go to the floor--it was just harder to push. If the OP's pedal goes to the floor then a mechanical failure in the linkage which goes straight though the booster to the master cylinder must have occurred which is just about unheard of in modern automobiles. I am fine with the OP's feeling that the I-MiEV is unsafe and that's his opinion. Any car, regardless of brand would be unsafe if the brake system failed. It remains to be seen what caused this accident (we will probably never know for sure) but there might be some other factors at work here. I hope the OP's son recovers from this as material things can be replaced---people cannot. BTW--if you are concerned about all of this, I would suggest you go out to your car, turn off the key and depress the brake pedal noting how many times it can be depressed without loosing power assist and then get a feel for how much force is needed to push the pedal to the same position without power assist. This should give you a better idea about what the brake would feel like and lessen you fears about vacuum pump failure.

 

[Don]

I agree with observations that cars have long had redundant brake systems that still provide braking but would require significantly more brake pumping help. In stop-and-go traffic and probably a moment of "new driver panic" when the brakes didn't operate as expected, my son simply didn't know or have time to pump. But I've driven cars for a long time and never remember suddenly the 'power' part of braking instantly fail and require manual pumping.

I will leave you to conclude what you want. Please don't overlook what Mits is publically acknowledging ... the "improper programming of the EV-ECU" can lead to brake vacuum pump failure.

You don't have to 'pump' the pedal when/if the vacuum power of the braking system fails - You just need to stand on the pedal harder, which is a natural reaction anyway in any panic stop situation

ABS has been around now in most cars for a decade or more. I'm not aware of what is being taught to young folks in high school drivers ed classes, but I know most older drivers probably aren't aware of the proper technique for driving cars equipped with ABS in an emergency situation. The best thing you can do is simply stand on the pedal as hard as you can and let the ABS system do it's thing - You will usually stop quicker than trying to modulate the pedal yourself, plus you retain the ability to steer around the impending accident without having to let off the pedal. It's good to give an ABS equipped car a panic stomp on the pedal once in a while - It will bolster your confidence knowing what to expect with a panic situation arises

If the accident was deemed to be your son's fault (as is usually the case in most rear end collisions) and you firmly believe it was caused even partially by anything having to do with the car itself, I would push very hard to have State Farm carefully inspect the car to determine if there was any mechanical or electronic failure which contributed the accident in any way - It might change State Farm's evaluation of fault and it would certainly help your case with Mitsu as well

EV's aren't the only vehicles which use electronic pumps to generate vacuum for power brakes. Most diesel cars and light trucks do it much the same way since diesel engines do not generate vacuum in the same way gasoline engines do. Power brake vacuum failures are not all that rare - They can be caused by any number of things, but they seldom cause accidents. I've had to replace a vacuum pump on a diesel pick-up and I've also changed a power brake booster when the diaphragm in it failed. I drove both vehicles without the power assist for a few days while waiting for the repair parts to come in. As I mentioned earlier, the initial vacuum pump recall in the spring of 2013 wasn't an 'emergency' fix and neither is the current recall. It's is still considered safe to drive the car with a malfunctioning vacuum pump and no pumping of the pedal is required

I hope you do continue to dig into what actually happened, what it anything failed and what Mitsu or NHTSA plans to do about it. Please keep us posted

Don

 

[PV1]

I'm not aware of what is being taught to young folks in high school drivers ed classes,

What Driver's Ed? :? My high school doesn't have it.

but I know most older drivers probably aren't aware of the proper technique for driving cars equipped with ABS in an emergency situation. The best thing you can do is simply stand on the pedal as hard as you can and let the ABS system do it's thing - You will usually stop quicker than trying to modulate the pedal yourself, plus you retain the ability to steer around the impending accident without having to let off the pedal.

I agree, but some older cars (my Cavalier, for example) doesn't have a strong enough ABS to overcome a very firm push. I could still lock the wheels with ABS engaged.

It's good to give an ABS equipped car a panic stomp on the pedal once in a while - It will bolster your confidence knowing what to expect with a panic situation arises

I agree. Also, the urge to take a car to an open, snow/ice covered parking lot and mess around does have its benefits in learning how to control your car in a skid...something the i-MiEV does quite well at avoiding (unless you turn ASC off).

 

[fjpod]

While I do feel for the op, condemning MM over this is not fair. Perhaps you would have rather had a GMC product with a bad ignition switch and a cover up.

 

[JoeS]

I've been fretting over this thread - my issues being well-summarized by siai47's discussion and the complete lack of engineering forensic analysis of the crashed vehicle.

Two things strike me -

1) peter1962, although elsewhere you mentioned that it would not go into READY mode, but you also say It would go into "READY" mode and when I tried the brakes then went to the floor. The READY mode perhaps doesn't matter other than actuating the brake vacuum pump, but in any case the brake pedal should NOT have gone to the floor. Had the brake lines been damaged in the accident? Any photos of the damaged vehicle you could post?

2) peter1962, in a couple of instances you introduced the concept of "pumping" the brakes. I trust that you realize that this has no equivalence to the function of the vacuum pump.

peter1962, since you went to a lot of trouble to both note the accident on this forum and notify the NHTSA, I don't suppose you yourself have been able to have someone inspect the braking system on this vehicle and provide an assessment that could possibly shed some more light on this issue? Where is the car located at the present time, what is its future, and is it possible to keep track of it?

Once again, I am thankful that your son is ok.

Given the highly-improbable nature of this failure, I think it would serve our i-MiEV community well to get to the bottom of this.

 

[peter1962]

I appreciate all the comments. Update.

My son consistently, and from the beginning of this, indicates when he attempted to stop the car, the brakes would not operate. I accept the many comments that the notion of zero brakes isn't consistent with how this is likely engineered. But in the moment of stopping, he certainly expected 'normal' brakes and did not get any. I did check with a buddy of mine who does behind the wheel (drivers ed) and he said nothing in their training material/direction educates new drivers for the possibility of having to 'stand' on brakes or pump. Anyway, guys, not sure how else to explain this and what my son says is identical to the safety recall notice which discusses how brake vacuum pump inoperability, due to improper EV-ECU programming, increases stopping distances.

State Farm offered me USD 17500. For reference, this was 2012 ES (w/nav) with 23000 miles. There is not 1 MiEV for sale in Minnesota and not many in the entire country. Establishing a value for this car is guess work. For reference, I paid 19750, with fees/tax, 21470 in May 2013. I received 7500 tax rebate for y/e 2013. I never paid anything for maintenance for this car. So ... in the end, I drove the car 23000 and came out ahead 2385.

I have contact Mits and they will not do any sort of investigation work with the car. It's unclear to me if State Farm will pull the ECU out of the car and have it inspected. They will seek from Mits loss, and obviously we'd all think having an opinion if improper programming is core of problem makes sense, but I am not so sure they will pursue this.

As to the car itself, front end heavily damaged, airbags deployed. Base estimate of damages is 15500 but collision company will not repair as they expect further damages to become apparent. Also, as a matter of policy, they will not repair any car totaled by insurance.

So ... the matter is pretty much closed from a claim point of view. If I ever learn more, I will share.

 

[jray3]

Thanks for the update, Peter, I hope your son has no lingering physical problems from the collision. Thanks also for staying engaged on this forum and taking all the debate in stride. If there are photos you can post, that would be helpful. Though we've seen a few crashed i-MiEVs on salvage sale websites, the backstory is always absent, such as the speed involved in those collisions and the extent of injury.

 

[dniemeyer99]

Peter 1962

I am sorry about your son's accident and am glad the only think damaged was your car.

I would like to also agree with your texts that the IMiev is unsafe when the brakes fail. In this case I will assume it was due because of the brake pump and the now required recall. I received my recall notice in Aug 2013 but because the dealership was 300 km from my home and at the time roadside and the dealership was not going to pay for the tow, I did not get the recall done until I thought would be a better time. Well, that better time happened in Jan 2014 when the brakes did fail. Fortunately, it was when I was backing out of a parking spot at our local mall and I just slowly stopped . It is a very interesting feeling pressing the brakes and nothing really happening (re-gen only). As I was only 3 km from my home, I used "B" mode and the emergency brakes to get back safely although slowly.

As for your Son, he should not feel at fault. If he was even moving a 30 miles per hour when the brakes failed, it would not matter if the best driver in the world was behind the wheel, there would be an accident. As a person that has been driving for over 30 years and all over the world, there is nothing that you can do when the brakes fail as the I Meiv does. Keep your wits, do not panic and stop the car as safely as you can.

As for any person on this forum deciding not to or delaying the re-call as I did. Don't be stupid (that includes me). The brakes are your primary safety equipment for any car. There is nothing more scary (i.e. dangerous) than travelling at 30-60 miles an hour and having no way to stop.

Dave