Hatched a Tesla

[JoeS]

Some photos from our recent trip. This first one in Bellevue WA showing the newly-purchased J1772 extension cable in use as the ChargePoint L2 EVSE cable did not reach the left rear of the Tesla in this parking spot - another plus for the i-MiEV in this scenario.

The free Greenlots DCQC EVSE in North Vancouver. First time I used my CHAdeMO adapter with the Tesla. Note the front of the car protruding into the fire hydrant restricted zone.

Snapshot at Latitude 50N by Campbell River on Vancouver Island. I have many fond memories cruising here in both my catamaran and trimaran, including the not-so-nice 1989 trimaran dismasting (while singlehanding) exactly in the area shown in this picture. Unexpected highlight of this Tesla trip was the hike to the fantastic Elk Falls Provincial Park Suspension Bridge.

Edit once 10/26/16

 

[Don]

Ah, Bellevue! . . . . my old home town - Graduated from high school there. When I left there eons ago the population was about 10% of what it is today - It did increase by nearly 400% between 1960 and 1070 due to the opening of the bridges across Lake Washington. I don't recall a building over 5 stories tall when I left to go in the Air Force. What a change!!

Don

 

[jray3]

I've been reading too much Seeking Alpha lately, but if Model S owners are indeed averaging $1450 per year in maintenance cost, that kills a lot of the benefit in the EV ownership equation.
The i-MiEV has certainly met the promise of negligible maintenance costs, save the few free recalls.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/4027082-tesla-sec-customers-spend-1450-year-service?app=1&auth_param=1dmkjo:1c3rp63:348df39b2da3acbe6c864a7d46f3a73c&uprof=45&dr=1

 

[kiev]

That DCQC Eaton unit in north Vancouver is just like the one here that always kicks the mains breaker whenever i tried to charge the kiev...

 

[JoeS]

That DCQC Eaton unit in north Vancouver is just like the one here that always kicks the mains breaker whenever i tried to charge the kiev...

hmmm, maybe I should drive my i-MiEV the 1500 miles up to Vancouver to try it out... :roll:

I've been reading too much Seeking Alpha lately, but if Model S owners are indeed averaging $1450 per year in maintenance cost…

OMG, I must be doing something wrong! So far my Tesla has proven to have the same maintenance costs as my i-MiEV: ZERO! I take it back, if tire replacement counts as maintenance then I've replaced tires on the i-MiEVs but haven't done that on the Tesla yet.

Right now I'm sitting at just-short-of 50,000 miles when the original warranty expires (except for the battery and drivetrain).

Let's see, when I bought the car (which had never been in for routine maintenance) I should have gone and done that for $600+

Now, after my 20,000 miles racked up in six months I should have taken it in for the 48K-mile maintenance at $1200+

Then I should have signed up for the extended warranty at $4000 (although there's some question of my eligibility for this).

Now, Tesla has given my luxury car free fuel for over 20,000 miles … figure that was worth $3,000 savings compared to an ICE vehicle.

Also, I haven't gone in for routine oil changes and all that other malarkey associated with ICEs … good for at least another $500.

Thus, adding it all up I have $9,300 in my pocket to cover the future costs of my present transgressions.

Now, what do you get when you take the car in for the annual 'maintenance'? Umm, they give you a new battery for your keychain and a new set of windshield wipers and a cabin filter… and inspect a whole bunch of the usual stuff, but no wheel alignment.

For the major maintenance, there are three significant items - brake fluid replacement, a/c recharge. and battery coolant replacement. I understand the brake fluid and will probably do it myself on a nice day one of these years (but intend to have a brake fluid analysis performed first), the a/c is still working fine, thank you, so nothing needs to be recharged, but the battery coolant replacement has me perplexed: since nothing has leaked out, what is there in that fluid to 'wear out' and so why touch it? I really am worried about someone damaging seals in each of those procedures.

The few rare times I've had 'professionals' touch any of my cars they inevitably managed to damage something.

One of the biggest disillusionments in my life was maybe 25 years ago when I was retrieving my parents' Buick from the shop for a ridiculously-expensive fuel pump replacement and I inadvertently stumbled into the back workers' area and there saw this huge sign admonishing/asking the staff if they had recommended additional work and parts on the car related to the issue the car was in the shop for … sure enough, they had been talked into a wiring harness! Gawd, was I naive!

I'm still researching the Tesla Motors Club website for maintenance-related information to find out just how misguided my perspective is.

 

[FiddlerJohn]

I seem to be following in JoeS' footsteps. After five years of daily driving my beloved i-MiEV (and my brother buying two new ones), last month I bought a new Tesla, X90D. The i-MiEV is still my daily driver, since the Tesla is really my wife's car. We ordered the Tesla in 2014, two and a half years ago. The i-MiEV is a joy to drive and the Tesla is even more so. If Mitsubishi had developed and sold a bigger battery SUV EV, I'm sure I would have bought it.

We don't need to tell this forum how awkward it now feels to drive a fossil vehicle. "Can't you smell it. Can't you feel it. Fossil cars are bad... They are wrong. Evil even." Just put Solar PV on your roof and drive on sunshine. There is finally a compelling alternative. And the Tesla is truly a compelling vehicle.

I am concerned about Tesla maintenance, since in 5 years, the i-MiEV maintenance has been so low. The i-MiEV needed tires, a windshield(stone cracked), the 12V battery, wiper blades. and I've been meaning to change the differential oil. The traction pack developed a bad cell so Mitsubishi replaced the pack under warranty. I've never completely changed glycol coolants, but only added to them.

 

[PV1]

Congratulations! The X is a really nice vehicle, even if it is an SUV :lol: .

One neat thing I saw is that when you lock it with the fob, it will automatically close the front doors, falcon doors, and the hatch. I'd call it insane, but that was three years ago in the Tesla world (now going beyond Ludicrous into plaid territory).

 

[JoeS]

Hey FiddlerJohn, as you are one of the very early i-MiEV adopters, congratulations on the Tesla! Wow, you went whole-hog in buying a new X! Presumably you got in under the January 15 wire, as there must be something psychological about the satisfaction of not paying for Tesla's S u p e r C h a r g e r s, even though it was paid for up front and the recurring cost is really negligible.

Even though I need a large tow vehicle for my big boat, I couldn't bring myself to splurge on the X, so the old Isuzu Trooper will valiantly soldier on. Towing Rig.

As far as Telsa maintenance - for 50,000 miles you have no worries, but Tesla does sock it to you with the 'annual' maintenance if you wish to use it. My used Tesla predecessor didn't and neither have I, but I just crossed 50K miles so the clock is ticking...

BTW must announce here that this week the San Francisco Bay Area Air Quality Management District paid us $1000 to take my wife's venerable 1983 Toyota off the road. Original engine 311K miles, one clutch, one alternator, one starter replacement and nothing else, and still ticking like a Swiss watch as she drove it to the crusher. She shed a tear. So, we're still whittling down our ICE vehicles and the classic Saab collection will have to go in addition to Myrtle.

 

[sandange]

Congratulations FiddlerJohn,


That's quite the change up to the X .
The experience must be worlds apart.
We're good with our Miev for now and waiting it out for the Model 3.
It's getting closer!!!
Enjoy and drive safe

 

[JoeS]

Only in California would one hop into a car and take a 550mile daytrip just to have a look at some bloomin' flowers in the Southern California desert last week. That plus a couple of circuitous-route trips up to Oregon and we've done 3000 miles in the last few weeks, rivalling Rick's cross-country Route 66 distance but only driving the Tesla for eight days in this timeframe.

 

[JoeS]

Been on the road again for the past few days, taking a longer scenic route through the Sierras between home and Medford, Oregon. Just returned home, keeping Tesia down to 66mph because I wanted to see just how good my overall mileage would be for the 1101-mile round trip: 283Wh/mile, battery-to-wheels. The highest altitude during this trip was only around 5500ft. I keep the SoC between 80% and 20%, although on the outbound trip up into the mountains I regretted not having charged up higher as we took a scenic detour, but found an unplanned accommodating RV campground with a NEMA 6-50 outlet so still didn't drop below 20%. I got sloppy and didn't do a detailed trip pre-plan with contingencies, and only lined up one RV campground ahead of time as it was critical. Still never ever charged the Tesla to 100%, with lots of conflicting information in the Tesla community about pack balancing.

For those of you wanting to compare long-distance travel to an ICE vehicle, I returned home on Monday doing the 406-mile trip from Medford with three SuperCharger stops at 20 minutes each and one quick rest stop break, and did it in almost exactly eight hours total (including all the stops). Had breakfast at the first charge spot and a snack at the second.

During this trip I picked up a couple of nice used Tesla wheels with almost-new tires at $100 each, so now finally after >25K miles of ownership I have a spare for some peace-of-mind. Now to find an ultra-light jack... I thought of an air bladder jack, but they're expensive.

 

[siai47]

I think you should consider charging to 100% at least once a month to let the pack balance. It's the only time it will enter into the balance mode just like the I-MiEV. With the high number of cells in parallel in the Tesla (if I remember something like 74) it is harder to get the pack out of balance due to one or two "lazy" cells. This is unlike the I-MiEV which doesn't have any cells in parallel. The Tesla at 100% charge is very close to 4.2 volts per cell which is far higher charge level than the I-MiEV and with the extra range of the Tesla, there is no reason to go to 100% except for a long trip---or to balance the pack. So, sometime when you are planning a trip, charge to 100%. As the charge is nearing completion, the current will taper off to a very low level. This is the only time the Tesla will balance the pack (applies to the I-MiEV also). The only way you can tell how far the pack is out of balance is by how long the car continues to charge after reaching this lower current level. If the pack is in balance, it may only be there for a few minutes but it could run for a couple of hours if the pack is severely out of balance. It needs to run to completion before disconnecting the EVSE. I used to run at 80% charge limit on the slider but once a month I would go to 100% just to be sure of the balance.

Everyone has an opinion about battery maintenance, however a balanced pack is a happy pack.

 

[Aerowhatt]

Everyone has an opinion about battery maintenance, however a balanced pack is a happy pack.

I agree! A pack should be balanced periodically. Monthly is a good rule of thumb. And since the balancing can't always complete because the highest cell often triggers the end of charging. I think it is a very good practice to do the 100% balance charges in consecutive pairs. Charge to 100% twice (back to back) once a month.

The cells which need pulled up during balancing are the lowest before charging and are getting the most stress when cycling because of this. So without balancing they degrade faster than others. Now, it can be argued that the difference is usually incremental and therefore the stress on those cells is only slightly worse. True perhaps, but it's that way on every cycle, many, many cycles and it adds up. If one thinks of it in the terms, that the lowest cells are already less efficient at cycling. And, then they are subjected to a lower discharge on every cycle (without balancing) it seems like the adding insult to injury.

Plus with the "i" the cells are at different temperatures most all of the time, which significantly compounds the tendency towards imbalance. Tesla really got this right with their battery temperature management system being active and fluid based.

Aerowhatt

 

[JoeS]

siai47 and Aerowhatt, I am in complete agreement that cell balancing should be performed periodically.

There are three techniques for cell balancing:

* Top balance (like the i-MiEV)
* Bottom balance (let's not go there)
* Continuous balance

For years I'd been using my PowerLab8 charger (designed for radio-control battery charging) to charge my 2P8S pack on my scooter and my two larger 4P8S Headway (LiFEPO4) packs for my electric outboard and standby power system. The PowerLab8 uses a continuous balancing technique with a wonderful graphic display showing the voltage level of each paralleled cell group, how much current is being bypassed for each cell group, and how it changes over time as the pack is charged. Great multi-colored cellvoltage vs. time graph display on the PC showing how the diverged pack voltages gradually converge during the charging cycle, and this now-single graph continuing to rise to the programmed voltage level (fully selectable) and decaying current over time.

There are some massive threads discussing this topic on the Tesla Motors Club forum, with the leading expert (who disassembled the Tesla pack and performed a whole bunch of measurements) stating that a brick doesn't start balancing until it reaches 93%. I buy that. If anyone is interested in what the Tesla pack looks like, here's the link:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/pics-info-inside-the-battery-pack.34934/

On the other hand, when charging at the various Tesla Service Centers around the country, I've been asking this same question and have been repeatedly told (if the person I was talking to understood the question) by the service people that the Tesla continuously balances the pack, with no need to fully charge it to obtain that benefit.

Like I said, lots of discussion on the TMC forum, with very little brick voltage drift being noted.

For myself, just before my next Tesla trip I do indeed intend to perform a carefully-timed very long slow (using 120vac) charge to 100%, thus ensuring a balanced pack no matter what. First, I'd like to obtain the hardware and software (like CaniOn and LeafSpy) which shows individual brick voltages so I can see what's going on inside.

In the meantime, the Tesla is back in the garage under its cover sitting unplugged at 40%SoC with a float charger hooked onto its 12v battery, while I enjoy driving my i-MiEV around town. Like I said before, best of both worlds!

 

[jray3]

Now to find an ultra-light jack... I thought of an air bladder jack, but they're expensive.

You might find one cheap on a 4x4 forum. A recent review of a spendy exhaust airbag jack (Car and Driver IIRC) found the wait exhausting and resorted to a traditional mechanical jack.

With low clearance and a lot of flat underbody structure, the TESLA oughtta be well suited to faster airbag action, esp. if your air suspension compressor has an accessory outlet.

Plus, here's an extremely low profile, lightweight jack with great reviews.
http://www.calcarcover.com/product.aspx?id=231

 

[sandange]

Glad you've been enjoying your Tesla Joe and getting some miles down.

i'm getting pretty excited about the model 3 we reserved and been spending some time over on the Model 3 owners club forum.

The subject of recording the total energy required, including vampire loss from idling systems , etc came up.

Since my experience has left me with little faith in MPG on board guages or ratings or EMPG figures.
This reminded me of your wall to wheels approach .

I was wondering if you have recorded your power usage
Wall to Wheels for your M S

So I'll be looking for a kw meter to install before my EVSE to record my consumption. Any meter recommendation?

 

[JoeS]

Hi sandange, That Model 3 sure looks nice! Anxious to see if it lives up to all our expectations. I have a number of friends who have now bought the BoltEV and really love it...

After realizing the tremendous variability in wall-to-wheels consumption, especially as it's affected by the heater and not just driving efficiency, I've given up tracking that number and simply haven't bothered doing that with the Tesla since so much of my charging is on the road at Superchargers. On the Tesla I have kept my 'Trip B' intact from the day I bought the car when I reset it, so at least I know what my personal lifetime ownership efficiency is battery-to-wheels (hovering around 297Wh/mile overall).

To answer your question, here's the link to my original mechanical wattmeter:
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=129&start=20#p2910

Nowadays there are many more options for monitoring one's home power and energy with WiFi-connected apps. I'd look into these first as manually recording data is a PIA - the granddaddy of the modern ones is TED, but I found it susceptible to noise from other sources. Individual powerline monitors can be easily installed on the line feeding the car.

Regarding vampire losses, Tesla has managed to dramatically reduce the power draw on the 12v battery and I now measure about 400ma going in from my Battery Tender, with the car never waking up any more to recharge that 12v battery. This results in main battery pack SoC not gradually dropping over time. Edit: when I remove the 12v Battery Tender smart float charger, the main battery pack loses about 1%/day simply keeping the 12v battery charged - that's also tough on the 12v AGM, as it is constantly being discharged and then recharged when the dc-dc wakes up.

 

[sandange]

Thanks for the feed back . I suspected you didn't track the Tesla due to the long distance travel and supercharging involved.
Good point on the meter, I think I'll keep an eye out for a meter that's is more automated .
My brother is out your way and traded his I 3 rex for a Bolt,
loves it so far.

 

[PV1]

I've been spending my time watching the Model 3 sighting threads (people are spotting the test cars all over the place). Elon shared pictures of production #1 the other day. I guess the Handover Party set fot the 28th is going to mostly be specs and details as the reveal, and then hand over keys to ~30 cars.

As for metering, this is the one I use. It measures both 240 volt and 120 volt charging, but it has to have 240 volts to power it (neutral wire bypasses the meter). It's similar to ones meant for sub-metering like in an apartment building (they have similar models that are certified for revenue). It keeps a tally through power outages and has a .00 kWh resolution with an LED that blinks for every 1.25 Wh (800/kWh, why they didn't make it 1,000/kWh is beyond me).

http://www.ekmmetering.com/basic-kwh-meter-100a-120-240-volt-3-wire-60hz-ekm-25ids.html#

 

[sandange]

Very exciting times for us , anticipating more information, ( final pricing and specs ) as we were line waiters and reserved the M 3 site unseen. We're hoping for delivery date in early 2018
Thanks PV1, the EKM is one I've been looking at, and Teslaliving on the tesla forum has installed.
Still evaluating at this point.