exclamation point inside of car error light?

[fresnomiev]

Hi all, we've had our 2012 iMiev for almost three years and have loved it. We were out of the country for a few weeks and when we came back the 12v battery was low and could not 'start' the car - it would not go to 'ready'. I used a trickle charger to charge up the 12v battery. I then put on the regular 220V charger and fully charged the traction battery overnight (which had also been fully charged before we left). The car started right up in the morning and drove normally for the day. The next morning, however, I tried starting it and the dash light with an exclamation point inside a small car icon went on and the car would not get to 'ready'. I finally called Mitsubishi roadside assistance and had the car towed to the dealer as everything I read suggested that the car needed to be put on their specialized scanner. I'm waiting to hear back from the dealer, which I don't trust since they are not familiar with iMievs but are familiar with gouging customers. Any ideas on why the light went on? Does simply having a low 12V battery trip enough enough codes to cause the car not to be able to go to 'ready'?? Thanks.

 

[PV1]

Sorry to hear of your trouble.

It sounds to me like you may be suffering from a failed cell in the battery pack. Did you happen to notice the car not having a full charge the next morning or rapidly decreasing charge bars or Range Remaining?

The low 12 volt battery is enough to trigger this light (which is referred to as the MCU warning light or EV warning light). I had this happen to one of my cars last January after leaving the lights on. But, as for the car not being able to start, it sounds like a bad cell in the battery pack.

The good news is that if it is indeed a failed cell, you will get a new battery pack under warranty, which should not cost you anything.

For the future, here are some tips for storing the i-MiEV:

1. Park the car with 4-6 bars of charge on the gauge and leave it unplugged. There is very little self-discharge.
2. Depending on how long the car will be stored, place a float charger on the 12 volt battery or use an automotive solar panel with a rating of 5 watts or lower. I'd say if you will be leaving the car for more than 2 weeks, use a float charger or solar panel.
3. Park the car where it is sheltered from the environment if possible.

 

[fresnomiev]

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll wait and see what they say at the dealer. I did not notice anything different about the main battery performance that would suggest a problem - it started at 72 miles to empty and was down to about 40 at the end of a regular day of errands/driving. When I stored it before leaving town I did have it inside a garage, and had charged up the traction battery (and then disconnected the charger), but did not leave a float charger on the 12V battery as suggested. The fact that the car did start (after running a trickle charger) and run for a day before the error light made me wonder if the problem was the 12V battery, as I assume it would not have even gotten to 'ready' the first time.

 

[Aerowhatt]

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll wait and see what they say at the dealer. I did not notice anything different about the main battery performance that would suggest a problem - it started at 72 miles to empty and was down to about 40 at the end of a regular day of errands/driving. When I stored it before leaving town I did have it inside a garage, and had charged up the traction battery (and then disconnected the charger), but did not leave a float charger on the 12V battery as suggested. The fact that the car did start (after running a trickle charger) and run for a day before the error light made me wonder if the problem was the 12V battery, as I assume it would not have even gotten to 'ready' the first time.

My money is on a new 12V battery fixing the issue. An outside chance that the DC to DC converter isn't charging it when you drove/charged. But more likely the 12V battery has a failed cell and won't take a charge properly.

Aerowhatt

 

[fresnomiev]

Interesting. I just spoke to the service manager and he says that now, two days after they got the car, they still don't know what is wrong. They are contacting Mitsubishi headquarters to ask them... ? He says they have not seen this error before (he didn't tell me the error number or name). Still waiting....

 

[JoeS]

fresnomiev, thank you for your posts which many of us are following with great interest. Please do continue keeping us informed of your progress and, especially, the eventual solution... enquiring minds want to know

No matter what turns out to be the problem, in your hot summer climate (I assume you're in Fresno, CA?) I would be hesitant to fully charge the battery pack unless I were to take off immediately on a longer trip.

 

[fresnomiev]

Almost three weeks later and it appears I am now just at the start of this journey! I got a call a few days ago from the Fresno Mitsubishi service desk - they said that they finally found the problem. They said that in going back and forth with the national Mitsu center they have determined that it is my onboard charger that is the problem. That sort of makes sense, as all the clicking noises that usually accompany plugging in the car did not happen when I last plugged it in. Two things that make we worried/very frustrated. He said that I had 67,000 miles on the car. Hmmm. I have 17,000 miles on it. That took him aback, as I think he was going to try to get out of some of the warranty - he claimed that the charger unit has a 5 year, 50,000 mile warranty. I thought it was 8 year, 80,000 mile on everything related to the battery/electric system. Anyway, he took his words back and said he would double check the mileage. The second thing he said, however, was that there were no spares of this part in the U.S. so he would have to order the part from Japan and 'that will take several months.' :evil: :evil: Huh??? If I were quick on the reply I should have told him there was this new invention called the airplane that delivers things faster than a boat. Or that just a few months ago I ordered a transmission from Holland for a VW and it was here in 72 hours. But I was just flabbergasted. There is no plan for a car to replace mine while it sits at the dealer for months. I asked him to text me when he had the part ordered and to give me an estimate on the arrival date - he said he would but has not; it's been 3 days now since we talked.

Fortunately I have a spare car so I can survive but if I did not I would not be thinking about keeping my Mitsu right now! Before this I had the feeling that dealers are quite incompetent - this only confirmed and clarified this feeling. It took three weeks to simply identify the problem and now it will take several months to get the part. I will likely go in and talk to the supervisor.

 

[tigger19687]

Wow, I would have called right back and talked to a supervisor. Find out why he said all those things and what is going to be done about it.
I would also make sure that the supervisor is the one who talks to you from now on.
Also search on the inter-webs and see if there are any other complaints about this dealer. There may be some and some people will write how they got things done.

GL @@

 

[databeestje]

Just replace the 12 volt battery for a hundred, it's not that expensive and not covered by the warranty anyway. These things fail regularly and 5 years souns about right. A 30Ah isn't too expensive.

Since a charger doesn't contain hazardous materials, nor does it weigh 200kg, then can just air freight it. The traction battery is something like 200kg, those are shipped by boat from Japan, and yes, that takes 2 months.

 

[kiev]

+1 on replacing the 12V battery. It's probably 4 years old and has many cycles--it is at or nearly at the end of useful life, and is the most likely cause in my analysis.

A trickle charger is not sufficient to fully charge a drained battery overnight.

The dealer probably fully charged it on a real charger and it has held up the voltage, hence the long delay in determining an issue.

If the 12V battery is old or weak then it won't be able to hold up and the troubleshooting chart pointed to a faulty on-board charger/dc-dc converter unit as the culprit. But even a weak lead acid can indicate 12V with a meter while having no guts when under load. It's easy to assume the 12V battery is okay and blame it on the next item in the flowchart.

just my 2¢,

 

[John]

Contact Mitsubishi direct as dealers like this give them a bad name. They can surely ship a replacement faster than that.

 

[Aerowhatt]

I vote with the other tech savvy here on the forum. The odds of the charger failing with the scenario you originally laid out are more than slim. The charger won't work if it doesn't "see" the Traction battery. The 12 volt boots up the system and pulls in the contactors which connect the Traction battery to the charger etc.

As Kiev said a 12V lead Acid can look OK on charging and standing voltage. But with a load added it craters almost instantly. Remove the load and it will pop back up to the voltage one would expect for a charged 12V.

Aerowhatt

 

[HParkEV]

Keep after them, make sure they diagnose the problem and give you a loaner car while they are waiting for the parts. I was just through a similar problem (warning light with the exclamation mark), and it took six months to get it sorted out. Details in this thread:
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2809

 

[fresnomiev]

O.k. so now it has been almost two months that the iMiev is at the dealer's shop. I was swamped with work and also with a death in the family so I have not had time to follow up very much. But I called the service guy today; surprisingly he said that the charger arrived yesterday and they put it in and .... it did nothing. Just as someone on this forum said would happen. He said they had tested the 12V battery and it looks fine (I know this is different than getting a new battery and I told him this but he seems to think the 12V battery is o.k.). So now the are 'going back and forth' between the dealer and the service headquarters. I figure your educated and experienced guess is at least as good as the dealer's guess with a machine or two. So what do you think? bad cell in the main battery? bad 12V battery? bad connection in the wiring? Again, the car sat for a few weeks while I was out of town; the 12V battery was dead (but not the large one, which I charged prior to leaving); I trickle charged the 12V battery overnight and the car started right up. I drove it for a day with no problems, no lights. I plugged it in. It charged the main battery overnight. The next morning it would not start and gave the error light with a car and the exclamation point. It's sad not to have my iMiev!

 

[kiev]

My bet is still on the 12V battery being too weak. There are tests for a lead-acid battery to determine it's condition, e.g. electrolyte specific gravity measurement, voltage sag under heavy load, etc. Just charging it up and measuring the resting voltage is not a valid test.

But have them give you the list of codes that show up from the MUT and you can post them here, then we can see what the troubleshooting flowchart indicates and you can go back and ask questions. Just hooking up the MUT and clearing the codes is not a valid method to fix a car.

 

[tigger19687]

Geesh, I would tall them to just put a new one in, if it doesn't fix it then no one is out anything but 10 min.

 

[fresnomiev]

I'll tell em again. The dealer seems to prefer to spends hundreds if not thousands of dollars chasing down ratholes.

 

[fresnomiev]

I'm finally back after a long delay (on my part and on the dealer's). I tried calling the service guy I had been talking with regarding my iMiev and found out that he.... left the dealership for the Toyota service down the road. Fortunately they do seem to keep records of things and the new tech guy seemed to know at least what the issues were. I finally got a call from the tech supervisor, who seemed more informed and aware of things. Not sure why he didn't call me a month ago... They have been working on my car (on and off) for six weeks now. He said they changed the 12V battery early on and that did nothing. They also tested my 12V battery on another Miev and it started up that car fine. According to the tech manager they now have two levels of engineers at corporate Mitsubishi working on trying to diagnose the car. Apparently there is a 'Dave' at the national office who is the best guy they have at diagnosing these things. It has a P18A15 code (I think I heard that correctly), which, he said, was a pretty generic code so it doesn't pin-point a specific component that has failed. ??? -what?? I don't see anything on the web for this one that tells me much but maybe I'm looking in the wrong places. They also finally mentioned the traction battery today. The tech supervisor said that they cannot change it out yet because the error code does not point in that direction; because the corporate headquarters is footing the bill for the warranty work they have to have factory authorization to change components like that. So far they can't go there. I said it sounded to me like we were getting to a dead end. He didn't exactly disagree but said to wait and see what Dave comes up with. I'm waiting.

 

[kiev]

Howdy fresno,
Was the error code P1A15? If the result of Step 7 (reading the correct capacitor voltage) is Yes, then they replace the drive inverter (motor control unit); if No, then the solution is to replace the main battery pack, but there is plenty to check before reaching that point.

If i were troubleshooting without a MUT and out of warranty then i might measure the voltage with a handheld voltmeter. More later gotta head to the rink.

------------------------------------------------
DIAGNOSIS CODE SET CONDITIONS
If the charging time of the smooth condenser in the EMCU reaches the specified time or more, the diagnosis code No. P1A15 will be set.

PROBABLE CAUSES
Damaged wiring harness or connector(s)
Malfunction of the high-voltage fuse No.1 (Main, 280A) (main battery assembly)
Malfunction of the main battery assembly
Malfunction of the EMCU

DIAGNOSIS PROCEDURE
STEP 1. M.U.T.-III CAN bus diagnosis
Use the M.U.T.-III to diagnose the CAN bus lines.
Q. Is the check result normal?
Y Go to Step 3.

N Repair the CAN bus line. (Refer to GROUP 54C - Troubleshooting .) Then go to Step 2.

STEP 2. Diagnosis code recheck after resetting CAN bus lines

Check again if the diagnosis code No. P1A15 is set to the EV-ECU.
(1)Erase the stored diagnosis code.
(2)Set the electric motor switch from the "LOCK" (OFF) position to the "ON" position.
(3)Set the electric motor switch to the "START" position, and start the electric motor unit.
(4)Check if the diagnosis code is set.

Q. Is the diagnosis code set?
Y Go to Step 3.

N This diagnosis is complete.


STEP 3. High-voltage fuse No.1 (Main,280A) (main battery assembly) check

Check the high-voltage fuse No.1 (Main, 280A). (Refer to .)

Q. Is the check result normal?
Go to Step 4.

N Replace the high-voltage fuse No.1 (Main, 280A).


STEP 4. Connector check: G-18, G-19 main battery connector, G-05, G-06 inverter connector

danger When servicing the high voltage system parts, always shut off the high voltage by removing the service plug (refer to ).

danger Be sure to wear the specified protective equipment when removing the service plug.

Q. Is the check result normal?
Go to Step 5.

Replace the wiring harness.


STEP 5. Check the wiring harness between G-05, G-06 inverter connector terminal and G-18, G-19 main battery connector terminal.


danger When servicing the high voltage system parts, always shut off the high voltage by removing the service plug (refer to ).

danger Be sure to wear the specified protective equipment when removing the service plug.
Check the high-voltage line for open circuit.

Q. Is the check result normal?
Go to Step 6.

Replace the wiring harness.


STEP 6. Diagnosis code recheck

Check again if the diagnosis code is set to the EV-ECU.
(1)Erase the stored diagnosis code.
(2)Set the electric motor switch from the "LOCK" (OFF) position to the "ON" position.
(3)Set the electric motor switch to the "START" position, and start the electric motor unit.
(4)Check if the diagnosis code is set.

Q. Is the diagnosis code set?
Go to Step 7.

Intermittent malfunction (Refer to GROUP 00 - How to Use Troubleshooting/Inspection Service Points - How to Cope with Intermittent Malfunction .)


STEP 7. M.U.T.-III freeze frame (FFD) data

Check the freeze frame data.
Freeze frame data

Item No. 15 : EMCU: Condenser voltage

OK: 220 V or more

Q. Is the check result normal?
Y Replace the inverter. (Refer to .) Then go to Step 8.

N Replace the main battery assembly. (Refer to .) Then go to Step 8.


STEP 8. Diagnosis code recheck

Check again if the diagnosis code is set to the EV-ECU.
(1)Erase the stored diagnosis code.
(2)Set the electric motor switch from the "LOCK" (OFF) position to the "ON" position.
(3)Set the electric motor switch to the "START" position, and start the electric motor unit.
(4)Check if the diagnosis code is set.

Q. Is the diagnosis code set?
Y Return to Step 1.

N The diagnosis is complete.

 

[fresnomiev]

Thanks very much for all of that info. I'll see what I can get out of the dealer...
Kenny, I PM'd you; I'd like to talk to you directly so that I can talk more intelligently to the dealer. Hopefully we can shorten the learning curve for the dealer.... (even though it is supposed to be a iMiev capable dealership).
Ken