Electric Vehicle Charging Etiquette

[Cacti]

While charging at a ChargePoint station close to the new Plainridge Park Casino in Plainville, MA I decided to check out the casino. I asked if they had any EV charging stations and they stated there were 20 L2 stations in the enclosed parking garage. I walked to the parking garage and the 20 parking spaces with the EV charging stations were all iced!

Cacti

 

[jray3]

Hmm, wondering if it's just plain ignorant or rude casino patrons, or contributing factors like placement of EVSE close to an entrance, poor designation, short supply of parking, etc.. I've seen a lot of poorly-planned installations EVen here in WA where we have largely been ahead of the EV adoption curve and good guidance was issued early on.

 

[fjpod]

sigh.....which is why I am not much of a believer in public charging.

I believe only in home charging or chargers at filling stations (you know, where people go to fuel up their cars).

There is no such thing as etiquette anymore, nor should an alternate form of transportation be based on it.

 

[JoeS]

sigh.....which is why I am not much of a believer in public charging.
I believe only in home charging or chargers at filling stations (you know, where people go to fuel up their cars).
There is no such thing as etiquette anymore, nor should an alternate form of transportation be based on it.

Oooh, fjpod, have to agree/disagree with you -
As someone who primarily charges at home, I agree that this is preferable, by far.
I abhor liquid fuel filling stations; I went to one yesterday (for the first time in many months) to fill up my wife's parents' Prius. What a horrible experience! :twisted: - heck, we could have all gone out for a great dinner for the cost of that dino juice! Nevertheless, I agree that filling stations would be logical places to locate DCQC on major highways.
Charging etiquette is pretty well observed around here, and I haven't been ICEd in a couple of years. All public EVSEs have excellent signage. The biggest pain is that inflicted by PHEVs, but since so many EVSE owners have started charging for charging this has diminished a bit. Many of us leave notes - for example, we went to the theater last Sunday and I needed only about three bars (one hour) so I left a note saying it was ok to unplug me after a certain time, and when I came back a Leaf was using the EVSE (thoughtfully, this single EVSE had been strategically located so it could service four parking spots).

 

[JoeS]

While charging at a ChargePoint station close to the new Plainridge Park Casino in Plainville, MA I decided to check out the casino. I asked if they had any EV charging stations and they stated there were 20 L2 stations in the enclosed parking garage. I walked to the parking garage and the 20 parking spaces with the EV charging stations were all iced!

Cacti, I've been thinking a bit about this one today. First off, you didn't mention whether they have EV-ONLY signage.

Secondly, it would be interesting to know if these charging stations were put in simply to comply with some green initiative, or was it done of their own volition?

Now, the installation cost them a few pennies, so the CEO and CFO or Comptroller or whatever they're called is tuned in to the fact that they spent money on these charging stations. Not only that, if they're using ChargePoint or some other cell-connected EVSE then they're incurring a monthly fee that is not insignificant for 20 stations. Somewhere along the line that management is going to ask for some statistics, and you can imagine their response when it shows negligible use!

So, I submit, this is an opportunity to educate the casino management. Find out who the facilities manager is and try to talk to him/her directly, or else shoot an email to that manager and cc whoever the financial mucky-muck is in the organization. Point out that you so welcomed their progressive thinking by providing charging stations, but unfortunately you were unable to avail yourself...(you fill in the rest)... and end up by pointing out that you had to go elsewhere to charge your vehicle so you could get home instead of spending a few hours at their casino. Maybe end up by asking them to initially enforce the availability of at least a couple of those charging stations at all times. At the parking structure close to Monterey Bay Aquarium, what the security staff does is simply put cones in front of the EV parking spots.

Even though we have EV-awareness in certain parts of this country, I'm afraid it's still early-adoption and education time elsewhere.

 

[Phximiev]

As a reflection, here in Phoenix, we have: (1) posted charging stations with statute citations and warnings that ICE vehicles violate the law by parking in a posted spot (similar to disabled parking), and (2) un-posted charging stations where ICE car can park without violating the law.

When I see an ICE in a posted spot, the recourse is to inform security (assuming security exists for the building) and have the security folks compel the ICE car to move. This has worked well in the several posted spots that I have seen.

Otherwise, its an exercise in frustration.

 

[fjpod]

Sorry folks. I don't get it. Why do some EV owners feel they should be able to fuel their cars anywhere but at home, or at a fueling station?

If EVs catch on, there will never be enough chargers in parking lots and malls, and the grid would not be able to support Everybody charging during high demand daylight hours.

Could you imagine Everybody trying to get gasoline in their parking spots?

As distasteful as it sounds, fuel is sold at a profit, just like the car was sold at a profit. The most convenient locations for fueling are already established.... and they sell lotto tickets, cigarettes, and beer.

Why do EV owners think they deserve anything more? If the success of the E V is going to be based on courtesy and privilege, it is doomed. It's got to be based on common sense, profit and loss, and convenience.

I get the clean energy thing, but the whole picture had to make sense.

 

[wmcbrine]

fjpod, gas stations for the most part don't want our business, so far. We don't really fit their model. Superficially, yeah, plugging in a J1772 looks a lot like plugging in a gas nozzle -- but we take a lot longer to fill up, even on a fast charge. At the same time, we don't require nearly as much infrastructure for a charge point as they do for a gas pump.

If we imagine a future where electric cars are widespread/dominant, there might be such things as shops devoted to charging electric cars, but they'll look very different from today's gas stations. They'll be higher-density -- like a parking lot, with a charge point for every space, rather than a few islands of pumps, with queues -- and they'll need a nice lounge for drivers to hang out in while they charge.

Which brings us to the places that actually make sense to put in EVSEs today: Places where people already want to hang out for a bit. Restaurants. Shops. And, especially, all-day parking lots.

There's no reason that any of these places couldn't require money for a charge, although some like to provide charging for free as an incentive to customers of their main business. But think parking meters, not gas stations.

I'd also disagree with you about the existence of etiquette. Consider Jon Stewart's "You go, then I go" speech -- sure, he was using it as a metaphor, but he was also describing the literal behavior of drivers in real life. There are lots of violations of etiquette in driving, and often those are the moments that stand out in our minds, but if you really think about it, cooperation is a lot more common. Otherwise we'd get nowhere.

 

[PV1]

I was about to say nearly the same thing, but you said better than I could've, wmcbrine. There's no reason our current way of doing things can't continue and be sustainable. Many shops put in charging stations to attract business. Often, when an EV is at a charging station and charging, the owner is usually visiting and spending money at that establishment, making the charging stations an investment with an ROI. In the future, they may need to tack on a usage fee, and when that happens, we will see a drop in opportunity charging and instead see people that need to charge using the stations. With that, every plug-in driver (and ICE drivers as well) need to treat them like handicapped reserved parking spaces. Unless you are actually charging, do not park in front of a charging station, the same as if you are not handicapped, you don't park in a handicapped space.

I also agree about the lounge-type charging 'lots'. That would be the best thing for quick charging locations. A lounge with a TV, a sandwich bar, maybe some pizza. I could see these being quite popular. The next generation of rest areas along the highway.

 

[Cacti]

While charging at a ChargePoint station close to the new Plainridge Park Casino in Plainville, MA I decided to check out the casino. I asked if they had any EV charging stations and they stated there were 20 L2 stations in the enclosed parking garage. I walked to the parking garage and the 20 parking spaces with the EV charging stations were all iced!

Cacti, I've been thinking a bit about this one today. First off, you didn't mention whether they have EV-ONLY signage.

Secondly, it would be interesting to know if these charging stations were put in simply to comply with some green initiative, or was it done of their own volition?

Now, the installation cost them a few pennies, so the CEO and CFO or Comptroller or whatever they're called is tuned in to the fact that they spent money on these charging stations. Not only that, if they're using ChargePoint or some other cell-connected EVSE then they're incurring a monthly fee that is not insignificant for 20 stations. Somewhere along the line that management is going to ask for some statistics, and you can imagine their response when it shows negligible use!

So, I submit, this is an opportunity to educate the casino management. Find out who the facilities manager is and try to talk to him/her directly, or else shoot an email to that manager and cc whoever the financial mucky-muck is in the organization. Point out that you so welcomed their progressive thinking by providing charging stations, but unfortunately you were unable to avail yourself...(you fill in the rest)... and end up by pointing out that you had to go elsewhere to charge your vehicle so you could get home instead of spending a few hours at their casino. Maybe end up by asking them to initially enforce the availability of at least a couple of those charging stations at all times. At the parking structure close to Monterey Bay Aquarium, what the security staff does is simply put cones in front of the EV parking spots.

Even though we have EV-awareness in certain parts of this country, I'm afraid it's still early-adoption and education time elsewhere.

Joes,

Went back this morning (6:00 am) to check out the EV-ONLY charging signage. Only four of the 20 parking spaces had signs. None of the spaces had any painted signage on the pavement. The charging nozzles (J1772) dropped down from the ceiling of the garage; no charging equipment was visible except for the J1772 nozzle and cables that were hanging from the ceiling and the small sheet metal box that contained the cable. I will have to bring a small step ladder to read the manufacturer’s name on the sheet metal box that contained the cable. This casino just opened Wednesday so maybe they are still finishing up with the signage (?). I did speak with one representative but he did not know much regarding the charging stations and signage.
Cacti

 

[dniemeyer99]

As we all know in the EV world ( the chicken and the egg) about charging stations. We need more drivers but are handicap in convincing new drivers because we need more public stations.

The other issue is the business model that prevents companies like Chargepoint from expanding as the investment cost for a charging location. The good locations are expensive to build and therefore have a low ROI. They are then forced to have high priced charging that discourage EV driver from using them.

My preference would be to get the fast food companies involved. Especially for DC fast chargers. And because the DC chargers are that much more expensive, sell their gift cards as part of the transaction. What I mean is that they do not sell a charging session but rather a 25 dollar gift card that allows you to charge for free. The size of the gift card is not what important and could be whatever the fast food change feels is reasonable. The EV driver would feel they get a free charge and the fast food company sells x dollars worth of their product.

This adds to the point that others have post on this site. Most of the charging would be done at home, but there are times when it would be really nice to get a quick charge when they are around and about or in an emergency. It is the biggest concerns that I here from most non-ev drivers. What if I run low of charge and where can I fill-up. It would be great to just say at the near by McD.

Dave

 

[JoeS]

Back in this thread: Public Charging Station Customers, seven public charging station customer categories were identified for L2 EVSEs to be installed in a local town. Interesting how often this still comes up in discussions.

1. Local EV/NEV driver with short range who NEEDS to charge to get home.
2. Local EV commuter who takes family out for shopping/dinner in town after work and has a follow-on appointment and NEEDS to charge while in town.
3. Long-distance driver on a nearby Interstate who NEEDS to stop and charge, and, e.g., has a meal while waiting.
4. Long-distance driver for whom the town is a destination; e.g., a meeting. This person NEEDS to charge.
5. Employees of businesses within the town who are EV commuters and NEED to charge to get home.
6. A local resident coming home from a long trip and running on 'empty' and NEEDS to charge in order to get home.
7. A local resident not having the option of charging at home (e.g., multi-unit dwelling) and thus NEEDS to charge

Going further off-topic, with great fanfare this last week a local high school installed four L1 outlets for their EV-commuting teachers. This was a tiny part of a much-larger energy-storage project (complementing their existing huge solar PV installation) which will pay for itself by eliminating the peak-demand power charges by the utility.

Back on-topic, fjpod, is there a significant cultural difference between our respective parts of this country? "Why do some EV owners feel they should be able to fuel their cars anywhere but at home, or at a fueling station?". Although some EV owners try to save money by charging for free at their workplace, I think we all cherish the convenience of charging at home. The "fueling station" you're referring to is a publicly-accessible EVSE. Whether or not the "fuel" is free is decided by the charging station owner (not the installer/provider like ChargePoint). With upcoming longer-range EVs, it will be interesting to see whether L2 EVSEs will continue to proliferate.

Unfortunately, IMO, a major push for public EVSEs is to enhance first-time EV purchases because those EVSEs cater to the innumerate populace's perceptions... just remember the first question that is invariably asked when someone approaches us about our EV.

 

[Don]

I think there will always be a lack of courtesy when it comes to EV/PHEV charging *until* there is a charge by the hour to be parked there *and* a penalty for not moving your car in a timely manner . . . . and that's fine with me

I think eventually, cel phone app technology will rule the roost for EV charging. Plug in, pay via the app, have the app let you know when your session is over and that an automatic penalty will be added in 5 or 10 minutes of you don't move your car - Then you'll finally see charge points which can serve the maximum number of users because we won't be dependent on the 'courtesy' of the previous user to move his/her car

Don

 

[justidutch]

...My preference would be to get the fast food companies involved….

Yes, let's all get sick and fat while we 'save' the rest of the planet??? :?

 

[PV1]

Yes, let's all get sick and fat while we 'save' the rest of the planet??? :?

Careful, guys. Let's try to avoid another argument about this same topic. I know we can have strong, usually opposing, opinions on fast food restaurants. I know putting charging stations at fast food locations conveys the impression that we encourage unhealthy food choices, but they are logistically fantastic locations. They are close to the highways, offer food and beverage, and are a place to sit down and relax for 20-30 minutes while your car charges. Plus, they have the capital and infrastructure to support a network of quick chargers.

It's a tough situation.

 

[Don]

Not all 'fast food' is unhealthy, so we shouldn't condemn them all with the same brush. Subway can get you a pretty healthy meal pretty quickly and a charger out front would be popular with many of us

Don

 

[tigger19687]

Maybe places like Starbucks ?
Internet Cafe's? Not sure where they are located.

 

[fjpod]

Maybe gas stations.

 

[rkarl89203]

One of our best charging experiences was outside a Starbucks near Chicago. Good food, but overpriced coffee. Nice relaxing place though. Friendly too.

 

[JoeS]

One of our best charging experiences was outside a Starbucks near Chicago. Good food, but overpriced coffee. Nice relaxing place though. Friendly too.

... and free Internet, just like McDonalds. Turns out, most places have WiFi but may not publicize it - just ask, and they'll usually provide the password. I don't think there are any "Internet Cafes" left, except for the gamers. Amazing how quickly time goes by when one is online, which is great if the car is charging at the same time. :shock: