Battery only charging halfway

[FiddlerJohn]

A brief status update. ... a huge open crate with a brand-new battery pack and my car up in the air with its pack already removed ... everything had been approved and I should have my car back in the next couple of days. Yes, I'm happy.

Me too:

- Bad News: My traction battery only charges halfway.
-Good News: My Dealership has the new battery and is replacing my bad battery TOMORROW! September 28, 2015

Purchased new 3/12/2012 driven 45000 happy miles.
A few months ago I started getting RR of 70 miles instead of my typical 80 or more miles. Canion said cell #39 was weak. Six weeks ago I scheduled a dealership appointment for 31 August 2015. For the 14 mile drive to the dealer the car would only charge to 8 bars, RR 35 miles and the Electric Motor Warning light activated seven miles from the dealer. I arrived with RR=9 miles.

After a week my Annapolis, Md, Fitzgerald dealer said they first needed to replace the $300 12 Volt battery, before they could test the traction battery. We argued about that for a couple weeks until I caved in and allowed them to replace my working, but 42 month old 12 Volt battery. I have burned an extra $300 worth of gas this past month. I miss my MiEV.

I was worried that my homemade trailer hitch might void the warranty, but no. They did ask me for towing details.

Feel free to move this post.

 

[JoeS]

FiddlerJohn, congratulations and hope the new battery installation goes smoothly. Being forearmed with CaniOn is such an advantage! So far, Mitsubishi has been very good about standing behind the traction battery warranty, giving us confidence going forward.

...After a week my Annapolis, Md, Fitzgerald dealer said they first needed to replace the $300 12 Volt battery, before they could test the traction battery. We argued about that for a couple weeks until I caved in and allowed them to replace my working, but 42 month old 12 Volt battery...

This, on the other hand, is a simple ripoff by the local dealer. What did they do - drain that 12v battery and leave it discharged and murdered it? Be sure to hang onto that original 12v battery and after your main pack is replaced as surely there must be some avenue for challenging this replacement. Can't believe that 12v battery price, either.

 

[sandange]

FiddlerJohn - Sorry and happy for you about your battery issues.

On the one hand I know how you feel loosing your car for an extended time and having to pay for gas feels like a insult on top of that.

Then again glad you have a fresh traction battery - kind of like getting 1/2 a new car
As far as the 12v battery - well its age was pretty well up there and changing it was probably a better option- but the cost is outrageous.
One question -
How did you treat your failed battery as far as charging goes- did you religiously charge using L1 , L2 , ? Did you use L3 and how often?

Curious minds want to know

 

[kiev]

The price of lead has trippled over the past 10 years--and the price of lead acid batteries has followed that trend also. What used to cost $50 for a battery is now 150-200, ouch!

 

[Malm]

And me, with only 6 months of warranty remaining (4 years and 6 months of age), 52000 miles in this moment, and no sign of a cell with a major problem, all them go to 4,1V, some to 4,105V. But with only 35 Ah of the initial 48 Ah. If in seven months my battery begins only charging a few bars, I will fill like the unluckiest i-MiEV owner in the all world. Not receiving a new battery after a capacity loss of around 30%, neither because a faulty cell. After April 2016, I can only pray for all that my 88 cells continuing to charge the same. Or that I can find someone that can replace just one faulty cell.

 

[FiddlerJohn]

... charge using L1 , L2 ? Did you use L3 and how often? ...

Mostly L2 at home (99% ?), but several times per year I would travel over 200 mile in a day. On these long trips I would use L3 up to four times in one day using hypermiling most of the way. I suspect that these long L3 trips accelerated the issue.

Since slow L1 is good for balancing the pack, I would try to L1 charge every month. The problem with 8 Ampere L1 balancing is it takes over 20 hours to finish, and I rarely have a day I don't plan to drive. Many of my L1 balancing days would get interrupted by unplanned trips.

I don't like burning gas.

 

[jray3]

Since slow L1 is good for balancing the pack, I would try to L1 charge every month. The problem with 8 Ampere L1 balancing is it takes over 20 hours to finish, and I rarely have a day I don't plan to drive. Many of my L1 balancing days would get interrupted by unplanned trips.

I'm feeling lucky in this regard, as MR BEAN normally gets two full L1 recharges per week while my wife works a 16 hr graveyard shift. As she's chained to the clinic for that duration, she won't EVen agree to picking up a 12a L1 EVSE for $200- doesn't see a need. Thusly, the BEAN is very well balanced (probly moreso than his prime driver).

I don't like burning gas.

We neither!

 

[Malm]

... charge using L1 , L2 ? Did you use L3 and how often? ...

Mostly L2 at home (99% ?), but several times per year I would travel over 200 mile in a day. On these long trips I would use L3 up to four times in one day using hypermiling most of the way. I suspect that these long L3 trips accelerated the issue.

Well, I do some long trips too, going from Tábua to Lisbon, more then 400 miles in one day, with L3 two times each stop to go to 97% SoC, so 8 L3 and plus one L2 in the destiny, and all cells behave very similar above 20/25% of SoC. I can´t see any way of damaging only one cell in the next one or two months. But easy to see the battery current capacity dropping fast, something like 10% in one month, keeping the battery as hot as possible, with the air of the heater going directly to the battery, if necessary. Maybe avoiding very low temperatures is the answer to not have single cell failures, because here in Portugal I had never seen my cells under 0º C, and I don´t know of any single cell failure here in Portugal. And I think they are very uncommon in Australia too. But maybe is just a question of luck.

 

[wmcbrine]

Since slow L1 is good for balancing the pack

Is it really? I don't think I'd heard that before.

 

[jray3]

Is it really? I don't think I'd heard that before.

IIRC, since L1 at 8 amps is such a slow recharge, the battery pack spends much more time in the balancing phase before charging shuts down. Like so much about the inner workings of lithium traction batteries, I think that this extended balancing has not been conclusively proven to make a difference, but the logic seems sound.
That extended balancing time consumes more energy and makes more heat than the short balancing period of an L2 recharge, so it's posited to be a good thing in moderation, rather than for every single recharge. (But could be a good way to keep the pack comfy warm during winter.) Conveniently, our batteries prefer room temperature.

 

[Carsten]

Malm,
My battery status from this morning looks very similar to yours:

In April 2015 it looked quite different:

How can I find out, what percentage of the original capacity I have lost?
Should I be worried?
Regards,

 

[JoeS]

Carsten, the battery status shown on your CaniOn screenshots looks just great to me. I see nothing to be worried about.

How can I find out, what percentage of the original capacity I have lost?

Perhaps the capacity discussion would be better continued elsewhere, as there are a number of threads on battery capacity; for example, -

Battery Capacity Testing: http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2386

Battery Capacity Depletion: http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2665

Simple Battery Capacity Calculation: http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2816

As well as a whole bunch of threads about battery degradation in this Battery subforum.

Perhaps we might have this thread continued primarily for outright battery/cell failures, where inability to completely charge the battery is a giveaway symptom of a cell failure.