Another wont go to ready MIEV

[MickeyS70]

Now that, in the last day I have figured out how to use Hobdrive I may get one of those cheap options that work with Hobdrive.

The dongles I have are Vgate Icar pro and Veepeak obd2 scan tool. Neither will read the OBD codes using Car Scanner or Hobdrive in either IMEV but are all fine in newer cars eg Our BYD Atto and Ora.

My Vgate works with HobDrive (paid version), setup isn’t intuitiv, follow @Rational ’s video for guidance (post #6 above).

It can also be used with OBDZero but no joy with CarScanner/Canion..

 

[davidhayesnz]

I'm new to this group. Thanks so much for all the great information I have found already.

I have two MIEVs
Car A. This had a few problems including the air conditioner didn't work, air bag issues and some more. However it had a good 10.5KW battery, charged and drove just fine.
I then purchased another;
Car B with a 16Kw battery that had problems charging including it stopped charging when showing at about 60% charged and it wouldn't charge from a granny charger but it would sometimes charge with a 16amp slow charger. The battery status on the dash would also go blank at random times and then the car would not drive though it would recover from this after a variable amount of time. Otherwise the car was in in very good condition. It alos wouldnt consistently charge on a fast charger . It would keep stopping and would go about about 60% as shown on the dash.

So ....

I swapped the 10.5 Kw battery and BMU into Car B from Car A. Perhaps I was lucky doing this but Car B now with the 10.5KW battery has no issues at all so I have ended up with one very good car.

I then tried putting the 16Kw battery and BMU into Car A but it has the following issues.

Battery wont charge at all
ODB readings show all cells at either 4.01 or 4 volts. I think that means the battery is actually fully charged right? even though its showing at about 60% charged on the dash
Car wont go to ready but with turn on and has the fault light on. The lead battery will then slowly drain as the only power being supplied in the car. For a while after the 16Kw traction battery was installed the car would go to ready for about a second and then go back to not ready. That no longer happens. It just doesn't go to ready at all.

My thoughts
Good readings on all cells suggests the battery cells are OK?
At least one problem must be in the battery pack cells or the CMUs or the BMU (from under the back seat) from Car B as these were the only things swapped between cars.
So excluding the possibility of new issues the onboard charger and motor controller wiring and lead battery should be fine. - They were all working fine before the good battery was swapped out of Car A to Car B. I have tried another good small battery with no change in the problems

I have removed the traction battery and all battery packs measure at about 32volts. So this matches with ODB reading of 4 or 4.01 volts for each battery cells

Thoughts on this please. Should I try getting a replacement BMU and see what that does or is it also very possible that some of the CMUs are the problem. How might I narrow down where the problem is? Otherwise I may just keep the car for parts and breakdown the battery for use in other applications but curious to see if I can resolve this.

Many thanks for any ideas

OK finally got some error codes for Car B with the transplanted 16Kw battery. Sorry its taken so long!
These obtained using a paid version of Car Scanner and an ICar pro dongle
The car has done 65000 Kms. The battery came from a car that had done 99000 kms

Car Scanner ELM OBD2
Version: 1.112.9/401129/GP
DTC report
Connection profile: Mitsubishi i-MiEVDate: 18/11/2024 11:01:28 a.m.
============================
OBD-IIOBD-II
DTCs: 1
----------------------------
P1A44 [0x1A44] Archive (inactive)
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory
============================
Engine control unit
No DTC found.
============================
Transmission control unit
No DTC found.
============================
ABS control unit #1
No DTC found.
============================
ABS control unit #2ABS control unit #2
DTCs: 3
----------------------------
U111B [0xD11B] Archive (inactive)
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory
----------------------------
U1100 [0xD100] Archive (inactive)
SCP (J1850) Invalid or Missing Data for Primary Id; Engine CAN timeout
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory
----------------------------
U1207 [0xD207] Archive (inactive)
SCP (J1850) Invalid or Missing Data for Primary Id
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory
============================
AWC 4WD #1
No DTC found.
============================
AWC 4WD #2
No DTC found.
============================
SRS airbag #1
No DTC found.
============================
SRS Airbag #2
No DTC found.
============================
Dashboard/Meter #2Dashboard/Meter #2
DTCs: 1
----------------------------
U1116 [0xD116]
SCP (J1850) Invalid or Missing Data for Electrical Energy Management; KOS CAN timeout/Not equipped
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory, Validated fault present at time of request
============================
TPMS
No DTC found.
============================
ACC/FCM
No DTC found.
============================
Lane assistance
No DTC found.
============================
Compressor
No DTC found.
============================
DC/DC converter
No DTC found.
============================
EV
No DTC found.
============================
KOS/OSS/Immobilizer
No DTC found.
============================
ABS/ASC/ASTC/WSS
No DTC found.
============================
Immobilizer
No DTC found.
============================
BCM/ETACS #1
No DTC found.
============================
BCM/ETACS #2BCM/ETACS #2
DTCs: 1
----------------------------
U1111 [0xD111]
SCP (J1850) Invalid or Missing Data for Primary Id; Display CAN timeout/Not equipped
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory, Validated fault present at time of request
============================
Multifunction display
No DTC found.
============================
A/C), climate), heater #1
No DTC found.
============================
A/C), climate), heater #2A/C), climate), heater #2
DTCs: 2
----------------------------
B1105 [0x9105]
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory, Validated fault present at time of request
----------------------------
U111C [0xD11C] Archive (inactive)
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory
============================
AYC/ACD
No DTC found.
============================
BMU
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #1
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #2
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #3
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #4
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #5
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #6
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #7
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #8
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #9
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #10
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #11
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #12
No DTC found.
============================
E/V ECU
No DTC found.
============================
MCU
No DTC found.
============================
Other unit #1
No DTC found.
============================
Dashboard/Meter #3
No DTC found.
============================
Dashboard/Meter #1
No DTC found.
============================
A/C), climate), heater #3
No DTC found.
============================
TPMS #2
No DTC found.

 

[MickeyS70]

P1A44 is a ground fault and is usually caused by water/condensation in the AC compressor, but this seems to be an old (archived) fault. However B1105 is also AC compressor related and appears to be currently active.

Best try a clear the faults first, then follow @kiev ’s advice in post below:

https://myimiev.com/threads/fault-codes-and-charging.5506/

 

[davidhayesnz]

P1A44 is a ground fault and is usually caused by water/condensation in the AC compressor, but this seems to be an old (archived) fault. However B1105 is also AC compressor related and appears to be currently active.

Best try a clear the faults first, then follow @kiev ’s advice in post below:

https://myimiev.com/threads/fault-codes-and-charging.5506/

Thanks. The air conditioner has a broken high pressure line and been like that for 12 months. Car was going fine otherwise but did have a seat belt warning light on. Vehicle is used off roads only. These presumably unrelated to current issues of not starting

 

[davidhayesnz]

OK finally got some error codes for Car B with the transplanted 16Kw battery. Sorry its taken so long!
These obtained using a paid version of Car Scanner and an ICar pro dongle
The car has done 65000 Kms. The battery came from a car that had done 99000 kms

Car Scanner ELM OBD2
Version: 1.112.9/401129/GP
DTC report
Connection profile: Mitsubishi i-MiEVDate: 18/11/2024 11:01:28 a.m.
============================
OBD-IIOBD-II
DTCs: 1
----------------------------
P1A44 [0x1A44] Archive (inactive)
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory
============================
Engine control unit
No DTC found.
============================
Transmission control unit
No DTC found.
============================
ABS control unit #1
No DTC found.
============================
ABS control unit #2ABS control unit #2
DTCs: 3
----------------------------
U111B [0xD11B] Archive (inactive)
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory
----------------------------
U1100 [0xD100] Archive (inactive)
SCP (J1850) Invalid or Missing Data for Primary Id; Engine CAN timeout
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory
----------------------------
U1207 [0xD207] Archive (inactive)
SCP (J1850) Invalid or Missing Data for Primary Id
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory
============================
AWC 4WD #1
No DTC found.
============================
AWC 4WD #2
No DTC found.
============================
SRS airbag #1
No DTC found.
============================
SRS Airbag #2
No DTC found.
============================
Dashboard/Meter #2Dashboard/Meter #2
DTCs: 1
----------------------------
U1116 [0xD116]
SCP (J1850) Invalid or Missing Data for Electrical Energy Management; KOS CAN timeout/Not equipped
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory, Validated fault present at time of request
============================
TPMS
No DTC found.
============================
ACC/FCM
No DTC found.
============================
Lane assistance
No DTC found.
============================
Compressor
No DTC found.
============================
DC/DC converter
No DTC found.
============================
EV
No DTC found.
============================
KOS/OSS/Immobilizer
No DTC found.
============================
ABS/ASC/ASTC/WSS
No DTC found.
============================
Immobilizer
No DTC found.
============================
BCM/ETACS #1
No DTC found.
============================
BCM/ETACS #2BCM/ETACS #2
DTCs: 1
----------------------------
U1111 [0xD111]
SCP (J1850) Invalid or Missing Data for Primary Id; Display CAN timeout/Not equipped
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory, Validated fault present at time of request
============================
Multifunction display
No DTC found.
============================
A/C), climate), heater #1
No DTC found.
============================
A/C), climate), heater #2A/C), climate), heater #2
DTCs: 2
----------------------------
B1105 [0x9105]
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory, Validated fault present at time of request
----------------------------
U111C [0xD11C] Archive (inactive)
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory
============================
AYC/ACD
No DTC found.
============================
BMU
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #1
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #2
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #3
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #4
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #5
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #6
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #7
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #8
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #9
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #10
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #11
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #12
No DTC found.
============================
E/V ECU
No DTC found.
============================
MCU
No DTC found.
============================
Other unit #1
No DTC found.
============================
Dashboard/Meter #3
No DTC found.
============================
Dashboard/Meter #1
No DTC found.
============================
A/C), climate), heater #3
No DTC found.
============================
TPMS #2
No DTC found.

So I cleared the codes and ran it again after disconnecting the DC to Air con and heater

Car Scanner ELM OBD2
Version: 1.112.9/401129/GP
DTC report
Connection profile: Mitsubishi i-MiEVDate: 18/11/2024 3:44:07 p.m.
============================
OBD-II
No DTC found.
============================
ABS control unit #2ABS control unit #2
DTCs: 3
----------------------------
U111B [0xD11B] Archive (inactive)
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory
----------------------------
U1100 [0xD100] Archive (inactive)
SCP (J1850) Invalid or Missing Data for Primary Id; Engine CAN timeout
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory
----------------------------
U1207 [0xD207] Archive (inactive)
SCP (J1850) Invalid or Missing Data for Primary Id
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory
============================
Dashboard/Meter #2Dashboard/Meter #2
DTCs: 1
----------------------------
U1116 [0xD116]
SCP (J1850) Invalid or Missing Data for Electrical Energy Management; KOS CAN timeout/Not equipped
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory, Validated fault present at time of request
============================
BCM/ETACS #2BCM/ETACS #2
DTCs: 1
----------------------------
U1111 [0xD111]
SCP (J1850) Invalid or Missing Data for Primary Id; Display CAN timeout/Not equipped
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory, Validated fault present at time of request
============================
A/C), climate), heater #2A/C), climate), heater #2
DTCs: 1
----------------------------
B1105 [0x9105]
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory, Validated fault present at time of request
============================
BMU
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #1
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #2
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #3
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #4
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #5
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #6
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #7
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #8
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #9
No DTC found.
============================
CMU #10
No DTC found.
============================
E/V ECUE/V ECU
DTCs: 2
----------------------------
P1B30 [0x1B30]
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory, Validated fault present at time of request, Validated fault has been present during this drive cycle
----------------------------
U1113 [0xD113]
SCP (J1850) Invalid or Missing Data for Primary Id; Display CAN timeout/Not equipped
Status: Validated and stored in non volatile memory, Validated fault present at time of request
============================
MCU
No DTC found.

 

[MickeyS70]

The current problem seems to be P1B30 (Battery cell status signals transmitted via CAN differs between the EV-ECU and the BMU).

Makes sense, as the EV-ECU doesn’t know you swapped the battery, strange though, that it worked the other way around, maybe the firmware is happy if there are more cells than expected, but not less?

A few possible ways to fix this:
- change the configuration of the EV-ECU (no idea how though)
- use a CAN bridge to intercept and change the relevant PID
- swap the EV-ECUs between cars (VIN change required?)

 

[hjdlsnbc]

Based on what @MickeyS70 told i think i realized what happened and why its not working.

In short: You forgot to swap the BMU between the cars. You just swapped the batteries but not the BMU's. Think about your two cars as the BMU is sort of part of the batteries but that part is outside of the battery itself.
Take a look at https://myimiev.com/threads/zipped-i-miev-ion-c-zero-2012-workshop-manual.4393/post-51229
Page 5 show the position of the BMU, Page 26 for further understanding.


And now in longer:
As we know the BMU is the part that configure the settings for the battery. When you upgrade the cells for higher capacity ones, then you also want to reconfigure the firmware of the BMU so that the BMU does not behave wrong.

maybe the firmware is happy if there are more cells than expected, but not less?

This is already tested wrong by inserting a 80Cell LEV50N battery into a car that had before a 88Cell LEV50. Neither the BMU nor the EV-ECU seem to care about the amount of cells build in the battery. This have been tested few times here in the forum and proven that it do not care about the amount of cells in the battery.

In the first post its written:

I have removed the traction battery and all battery packs measure at about 32volts. So this matches with ODB reading of 4 or 4.01 volts for each battery cells

And now read the Wikipedia page about the LTO cells: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-titanate_battery

The BMU configured by Mitsubishi for LTO cells is set to create a complete critical error and do not drive when 4Volts are measured on cells that have nominal voltage of 2.3Volts. Of course it should be like that. You can really break the LTO cells when you overcharge them to 4Volts. Did you had a turtle symbol when you first start the car with the LTO battery inside that had before the LEV50?

And now i hope you realize: I SHOULD ASAP SWAP THE BMU's . Because you have now a really, really critical situation created. The BMU that want to charge up to 4.1Volts (Yuasa LEV50 cells) is connected to Toshiba SCiB LTO cells that have nominal voltage of 2.3Volts.
I do not know how they are exactly connected in the battery and what the CMU's are doing but you for sure want to also swap the BMU's as soon as possible when you already have both correct BMU's from both cars there!

The reason why the critical error of the BMU is stored in EV-ECU you can see in the PDF page 26 section 5-3. It seems that the BMU can not store errors on its own.

Side note: It would be a benefit for the community if you could read out the BMU firmware from the LTO cells of the car and upload it to the forum here. About everyone around the world with a i-miev have the firmware inside their BMU for LEV50(N) cells but nearly noone have the BMU firmware for the LTO cells. If someone would get a LTO cell but was not able to get the BMU that belong to that LTO cell battery, then the person would have to somehow start to modify the binary firmware file of the BMU. @kolyandex have already did this reasearch but have not shared the knowledge how that can be done and want to earn money out of this knowledge.

What you could also do is not to swap the BMU themself but use the payed software from kolyandex to read out the firmware of both BMU's and cross flash the firmware files to the cars.

 

[kiev]

In short: You forgot to swap the BMU between the cars. You just swapped the batteries but not the BMU's.

Car B is going great with its transplanted battery and BMU)

Somebody didn't read the thread carefully.

 

[hjdlsnbc]

Thanks for pointing me wrong about thinking BMU have not been swapped.

- swap the EV-ECUs between cars (VIN change required?)

https://mitsubishitechinfo.com/data/RE/2019/00/HTML/M100101140122601USA.htm
You need MUT-3 SE for example with OpenPort 2.0 to change the VIN of the ECU's.

 

[davidhayesnz]

Based on what @MickeyS70 told i think i realized what happened and why its not working.

In short: You forgot to swap the BMU between the cars. You just swapped the batteries but not the BMU's. Think about your two cars as the BMU is sort of part of the batteries but that part is outside of the battery itself.
Take a look at https://myimiev.com/threads/zipped-i-miev-ion-c-zero-2012-workshop-manual.4393/post-51229
Page 5 show the position of the BMU, Page 26 for further understanding.


And now in longer:
As we know the BMU is the part that configure the settings for the battery. When you upgrade the cells for higher capacity ones, then you also want to reconfigure the firmware of the BMU so that the BMU does not behave wrong.

This is already tested wrong by inserting a 80Cell LEV50N battery into a car that had before a 88Cell LEV50. Neither the BMU nor the EV-ECU seem to care about the amount of cells build in the battery. This have been tested few times here in the forum and proven that it do not care about the amount of cells in the battery.

In the first post its written:

And now read the Wikipedia page about the LTO cells: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-titanate_battery

The BMU configured by Mitsubishi for LTO cells is set to create a complete critical error and do not drive when 4Volts are measured on cells that have nominal voltage of 2.3Volts. Of course it should be like that. You can really break the LTO cells when you overcharge them to 4Volts. Did you had a turtle symbol when you first start the car with the LTO battery inside that had before the LEV50?

And now i hope you realize: I SHOULD ASAP SWAP THE BMU's . Because you have now a really, really critical situation created. The BMU that want to charge up to 4.1Volts (Yuasa LEV50 cells) is connected to Toshiba SCiB LTO cells that have nominal voltage of 2.3Volts.
I do not know how they are exactly connected in the battery and what the CMU's are doing but you for sure want to also swap the BMU's as soon as possible when you already have both correct BMU's from both cars there!

The reason why the critical error of the BMU is stored in EV-ECU you can see in the PDF page 26 section 5-3. It seems that the BMU can not store errors on its own.

Side note: It would be a benefit for the community if you could read out the BMU firmware from the LTO cells of the car and upload it to the forum here. About everyone around the world with a i-miev have the firmware inside their BMU for LEV50(N) cells but nearly noone have the BMU firmware for the LTO cells. If someone would get a LTO cell but was not able to get the BMU that belong to that LTO cell battery, then the person would have to somehow start to modify the binary firmware file of the BMU. @kolyandex have already did this reasearch but have not shared the knowledge how that can be done and want to earn money out of this knowledge.

What you could also do is not to swap the BMU themself but use the payed software from kolyandex to read out the firmware of both BMU's and cross flash the firmware files to the cars.

Hey thanks for all the great information which Im still digesting. I did swap the BMUs however. Am I mis understanding?
I will try and get the readout of the BMU firmware. The BMU modules do have different parts codes on the outside. Does that help? Remember the car with the 16.5 KW battery originally had faults. Wouldn't charge sometimes and sometimes display no charge status and not drive

 

[davidhayesnz]

Thanks for pointing me wrong about thinking BMU have not been swapped.


https://mitsubishitechinfo.com/data/RE/2019/00/HTML/M100101140122601USA.htm
You need MUT-3 SE for example with OpenPort 2.0 to change the VIN of the ECU's.

Great thanks. That will be a "Learning opportunity" figuring out how to get that done but keen. Will be a week or two before I can get back to that.

 

[davidhayesnz]

Great thanks. That will be a "Learning opportunity" figuring out how to get that done but keen. Will be a week or two before I can get back to that.

Hey the link in your post doesnt work for me. Can you direct me to where it is? thanks

 

[hjdlsnbc]

Yes, i missed the information about BMU not been swapped.

When the 16kWh battery combined with its BMU was the one with the errors maybe try out the battery in a fully working 16kWh car. If someone would like for example to get the car audio upgraded, offer this quick upgrade for free to the person if you are allowed to test out your battery on that car. When doing this you can then also tell the person if the mounting of the battery is still in good condition (something you maybe would like to check every few years).
If you cant find out a different car to try your 16kWh battery with a known good LEV50 configured BMU, then of course you can get a used BMU online and hope it was the BMU that had a fault.

Hey the link in your post doesnt work for me. Can you direct me to where it is? thanks

I think they filter for US-based IP addresses or things like this. I also had struggled for a moment to get access to the page.
You can access the website for example by using this web proxy and choosing one of the US servers: https://www.proxysite.com/

 

[kiev]

Hey the link in your post doesnt work for me. Can you direct me to where it is? thanks

Here is a pdf from that link.

 

[MickeyS70]

This is already tested wrong by inserting a 80Cell LEV50N battery into a car that had before a 88Cell LEV50. Neither the BMU nor the EV-ECU seem to care about the amount of cells build in the battery. This have been tested few times here in the forum and proven that it do not care about the amount of cells in the battery.

P1B30 actually means “Mismatch in the number of cells EV-ECU and BMU detect”

It’s therefore highly probable that the presence of this DTC prevents the high voltage circuit to go active, (hence car won’t go READY) and not any potential issues (CMU faults) with the 16kWh pack.

​

 

[MickeyS70]

When the 16kWh battery combined with its BMU was the one with the errors maybe try out the battery in a fully working 16kWh car. If someone would like for example to get the car audio upgraded, offer this quick upgrade for free to the person if you are allowed to test out your battery on that car. When doing this you can then also tell the person if the mounting of the battery is still in good condition (something you maybe would like to check every few years).

Just curious, have you actually ever done a HV battery swap on a triplet?