240V Charging and Extension cables (Amazing-E)

[bradleydavidgood777]

Found this interesting thing. Not for me but maybe for someone else:
https://www.amazon.com/AC-WORKS-S10...0797YH3N8/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

 

[JoeS]

bradleydavidgood777, a lot of ideas running around in the last few days. Leave you to your own devices with perhaps a few thought -

1. Not having a well-grounded input panel is disconcerting. I'd be inclined to have the electrician have a look at this as there must have been a ground there somewhere in the past.

2. While the electrician is there, discuss your scheme for disconnecting the A/C and utilizing those wires for car charging. He may offer some suggestions which would allow you to be code-compliant, as well as offer some other new ideas.

3. If you do setup a 20A 240v circuit for charging the car, I'd be inclined to go with an L6-20 outlet and same for extension cord. Dunno about code compliance.

4. If you disconnect the A/C will your power company sense this and send someone out there to check? You risk losing $80/year and maybe getting dobbed in for messing with the wiring?

5. Regarding your future hot-water heating, I'd look at Heat Pump Water Heaters rather than the on-demand units. Do the math first.

6. Consider PV solar in the future? Maybe there are some cost incentives that might partially pay for a new input panel and wiring upgrades? Anyway, amortization would be a function of how long you plan on owning this house.

7. Bear in mind that many of us on this forum offer all sorts of suggestions, many of which may or may not result in code-compliant installations. The monkey is on your back to determine what's right for you.

Have fun!

 

[Don]

Bear in mind that many of us on this forum offer all sorts of suggestions, many of which may or may not result in code-compliant installations

I stand guilty as charged! :lol:

As one example, I have Romex stapled all over in my garage which really should be in conduit . . . . but I don't have an extension cord laying on a public sidewalk

Don

 

[JoeS]

. . . . but I don't have an extension cord laying on a public sidewalk.

Aaah yes, but I think he does a nice job of covering that cord crossing the sidewalk. I carry these collapsible cones in my cars and do occasionally use them on unprotected charging cables.
https://www.harborfreight.com/collapsible-reflective-emergency-cone-94111.html

 

[jray3]

I've been using one of these flexible cable curbings across my garage since 2012, with no premature wear issues, but it mainly sees foot traffic, not cars. I'd consider an upgrade to stiffer protection if rolling a vehicle over the cable protector regularly.

https://www.discountramps.com/cable...m2&ppcstrkid=1069721600&ppcsu=xhg7f5djqlusist

In fact, the gas water heater is 9 years old. A good brand (Bradford White) but near end of life for sure. I've been considering electric instant hot water instead.

Don't count on that hot water tank going bad anytime soon- my AO Smith tank from 1995 is going strong. The original plastic dip tube disintegrated around 2010, but that and a replacement anode rod gave it a new lease on life, and though I have a low-hours salvage instantaneous gas, solar collectors and storage tank awaiting installation, just that marginal cost makes payback too long to raise the priority. I'll probably run this one until the water gets rusty or it springs a leak (it's in my garage, which is at a lower elevation and drains to the outside).

 

[bradleydavidgood777]

https://youtu.be/yNTyNjYAK1Q

 

[JoeS]

Cool, now you can cut off that Neutral pin and use your Amazing E in either 14-30 or 14-50 (or 14-60 if you ever see one). That's what this one does:
https://www.evseadapters.com/collections/ev-chargers-and-evses/products/16-30a-adjustable-120-240v-charger-evse

 

[bradleydavidgood777]

bradleydavidgood777, a lot of ideas running around in the last few days. Leave you to your own devices with perhaps a few thought -

1. Not having a well-grounded input panel is disconcerting. I'd be inclined to have the electrician have a look at this as there must have been a ground there somewhere in the past.

2. While the electrician is there, discuss your scheme for disconnecting the A/C and utilizing those wires for car charging. He may offer some suggestions which would allow you to be code-compliant, as well as offer some other new ideas.

3. If you do setup a 20A 240v circuit for charging the car, I'd be inclined to go with an L6-20 outlet and same for extension cord. Dunno about code compliance.

4. If you disconnect the A/C will your power company sense this and send someone out there to check? You risk losing $80/year and maybe getting dobbed in for messing with the wiring?

5. Regarding your future hot-water heating, I'd look at Heat Pump Water Heaters rather than the on-demand units. Do the math first.

6. Consider PV solar in the future? Maybe there are some cost incentives that might partially pay for a new input panel and wiring upgrades? Anyway, amortization would be a function of how long you plan on owning this house.

7. Bear in mind that many of us on this forum offer all sorts of suggestions, many of which may or may not result in code-compliant installations. The monkey is on your back to determine what's right for you.

Have fun!

Hey Joe,

Thanks for all of this. Good things to think about.
The ground - I did a bit of research and found that older houses commonly were grounded thru the water pipe. A second ground to a rod was required later. I'm grandfathered in. One post said that the water ground was much more solid than the rod. I'm getting two grounds right now. One to the water pipe, and one to the utility. The 3 prong tester I have is registering ground and the Amazing-E likes it too, so I think I'm leaving this one alone until I upgrade the panel, at which point code will require the earth rod.

I'm not concerned with codes. I feel very safe with the 20A breakers on this line which is all 10 gauge. I'm going to take the flexible conduit off the A/C unit, remove the wires in it, and replace the connection that outdoor switch box with the 50 foot 10 gauge extension cord. Hard wired to the box. I don't need it to be removable and don't need to take that cord elsewhere. Then make the flex conduit go straight down under the rocks, and lay the 50 foot cord under the rocks until after the fence. No one will even notice it.

The power company thing runs a separate flex conduit to the A/C unit and this works as a switch. I'm sure that this is connected separately, but have not confirmed that yet....doing that today. That thing is just going to think that I never turn on my A/C, which is what it has been seeing. There should be no red flag there. And no safety issue. I have rewired every wire in my house myself. Only help was with the main box. And only got shocked a couple of times! I get the basics of electricity and have even done some more complicated things, like wiring up the whole house fan with a relay and thermostat.

Solar - I've had 3 companies come out in the past and all of them said no way because of the huge red oak on the west side of my house with huge branches hanging over the house. That tree gives me great shade and keeps my house cool. And it is the city's tree so I can't remove it and would not want to. I love it. I possibly could put a small array on the back lower roof but its really not that big and I don't like the idea of a battery bank and the gasses from it in the house. Plus I just have too many other house projects right now I'd rather get done and don't want the distraction although I have been tempted and have played around with it.

Thanks

 

[bradleydavidgood777]

. . . . but I don't have an extension cord laying on a public sidewalk.

Aaah yes, but I think he does a nice job of covering that cord crossing the sidewalk. I carry these collapsible cones in my cars and do occasionally use them on unprotected charging cables.
https://www.harborfreight.com/collapsible-reflective-emergency-cone-94111.html

Those cones are nice! So nice I bet they may not last out on the street. Even tho not many things disappear here ever. I've got a full size one behind the fence. They took down the big tree yesterday because it was dying and that was my blocker for foot traffic so I may take the full size one and put it near the EVSE, or even hang the EVSE from it to keep it off the ground.

 

[bradleydavidgood777]

Bear in mind that many of us on this forum offer all sorts of suggestions, many of which may or may not result in code-compliant installations

I stand guilty as charged! :lol:

As one example, I have Romex stapled all over in my garage which really should be in conduit . . . . but I don't have an extension cord laying on a public sidewalk

Don

Me too. I tend to try to keep it safe but don't comply with everything in life. No fun that way.

 

[bradleydavidgood777]

I've been using one of these flexible cable curbings across my garage since 2012, with no premature wear issues, but it mainly sees foot traffic, not cars. I'd consider an upgrade to stiffer protection if rolling a vehicle over the cable protector regularly.

https://www.discountramps.com/cable...m2&ppcstrkid=1069721600&ppcsu=xhg7f5djqlusist

In fact, the gas water heater is 9 years old. A good brand (Bradford White) but near end of life for sure. I've been considering electric instant hot water instead.

Don't count on that hot water tank going bad anytime soon- my AO Smith tank from 1995 is going strong. The original plastic dip tube disintegrated around 2010, but that and a replacement anode rod gave it a new lease on life, and though I have a low-hours salvage instantaneous gas, solar collectors and storage tank awaiting installation, just that marginal cost makes payback too long to raise the priority. I'll probably run this one until the water gets rusty or it springs a leak (it's in my garage, which is at a lower elevation and drains to the outside).

Cool, good to know. I had one from Home Depot go bad in 3 years. I think it was GE. Had a 7 year warranty but it was prorated and you had to buy another one from them and get it installed by them. What a racket. That's when I called the local plumber and got this one. I have lots of minerals in the water. Kitchen and bathroom spigots have had holes in them in the matter of a few years. A large tank whole house charcoal filter is on my list for this year.

 

[bradleydavidgood777]

Cool, now you can cut off that Neutral pin and use your Amazing E in either 14-30 or 14-50 (or 14-60 if you ever see one). That's what this one does:
https://www.evseadapters.com/collections/ev-chargers-and-evses/products/16-30a-adjustable-120-240v-charger-evse

Yup, doing that today. Went to Lowes and got the double 20A breaker - $35! $20 on Amazon. I may order the Amazon one and take it back to Lowes.
Installed it in the panel and hooked up to the A/C wire. And now I have one extra open 20A breaker in there which is nice.
Put my stuff in an Amazon cart and about to hit buy soon. Then going outside to work at the A/C unit and wire up that 50 foot cord. On the EVSE end of the cord I'm going to do the L6-20R and P connection then a short wire to a 14-50R. Each morning I can just unlock the 6-20, hang it off the ground thru the fence like I do now with the 120, and go on my way.

Amazon cart:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000PDBLP0/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00002NAT2/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00192QB9M/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
Larger channel in this cord cover:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013LMU6C/ref=ox_sc_act_title_7?smid=A38Z015AJ7I755&psc=1

 

[bradleydavidgood777]

121 Jiggawatts!

https://youtu.be/g1hLUgmy8pk

https://youtu.be/I5cYgRnfFDA

 

[bradleydavidgood777]

Almost there! Please help me understand this last thing. Thanks!

https://youtu.be/pZYwCI9vaks

https://youtu.be/tGfVJs3Xow8

 

[Don]

On the first video (with the yellow plug) you keep saying "I've got 120 here and 120 there" . . . . you shouldn't have 120 anywhere - It's a 240 volt circuit with a ground and no neutral . . . . right? If you have 240 at the big pins on the yellow socket and a ground on the round pin your Amazing E should work

I think you probably put the 3rd wire from the small plug to the big neutral pin of the yellow connector. That's how you got 120 on the yellow connector. That's not going to work - That's the neutral pin and your Amazing E needs a ground, not a neutral, and that ground must show up on the round pin

Don

 

[bradleydavidgood777]

On the first video (with the yellow plug) you keep saying "I've got 120 here and 120 there" . . . . you shouldn't have 120 anywhere - It's a 240 volt circuit with a ground and no neutral . . . . right? If you have 240 at the big pins on the yellow socket and a ground on the round pin your Amazing E should work
I think you probably put the 3rd wire from the small plug to the big neutral pin of the yellow connector. That's how you got 120 on the yellow connector. That's not going to work - That's the neutral pin and your Amazing E needs a ground, not a neutral, and that ground must show up on the round pin
Don

Thanks Don,

I was measuring ground and one hot at a time. Was getting 122. I was afraid to measure the two hots because I didn't know if that would fry the meter. Go ahead and laugh at the inexperienced electrician!
When I measured the two hots, I got 245. This was with the wire in the panel jumped to the other side (2nd video).
Then I moved it back to the tandem breaker in the panel so that both hots were in the same tandem breaker. Went back out and measured and got nothing on the two hots. But when I measured ground and one hot, got 122.
So I went back to the panel and moved the tandem breaker on the right side of the panel and moved a single 20A breaker to the left side. Put both hots in separate single 20A breakers on the left side and everything is good.
Car is charging now.
So lesson learned is that you can't use one tandem 20A breaker to do this.

By the way, while I was working on this, before I plugged the car in, I figured I'd run it down to zero.
I had the car on with everything I could think of turned on and it quickly lost 4 bars and then went into turtle and stayed there still fan and defrost blasting, seats on, lights on...for a really long time after going to zero bars. I could hardly believe it. Maybe it was draining the starter battery? I think turtle finally went away and battery light came on. I figured I better not drain that starter battery all the way and plugged in.

Now we get to see how Amazing this thing is!

 

[Don]

Most power panels are designed so that wherever you put a tandem breaker, you automatically get both phases. You may be using a tandem not designed for your panel if both of the legs are on the same phase . . . . or maybe you're actually using a half size double breaker, in which case both hots would be the same phase

Congrats that you finally got it working! I would paint that rubber protector you have laying on the sidewalk red or bright yellow - You wouldn't want anyone to trip and fall because they didn't see it :shock:

Don

 

[bradleydavidgood777]

Most power panels are designed so that wherever you put a tandem breaker, you automatically get both phases. You may be using a tandem not designed for your panel if both of the legs are on the same phase . . . . or maybe you're actually using a half size double breaker, in which case both hots would be the same phase
Congrats that you finally got it working! I would paint that rubber protector you have laying on the sidewalk red or bright yellow - You wouldn't want anyone to trip and fall because they didn't see it :shock:
Don

Yes it was a half size double breaker...lowes calls it tandem on their website. And I think it is correct for my panel. Siemens panel. I got the wrong one first and it didn't seat in the panel because it has a stop and is designed for the other type panel. So went back and got this one and it seats properly. So it's the phase thing I guess. But I thought you had to use a breaker on the other side of the panel to get different phases. I don't get that. I have both hots on the same side of the panel and it's working fine.
Yes, good idea about painting the protector. I'm getting a new one that has a larger channel because this one doesn't sit down all of the way because of the large cable. Yellow spray paint added to my amazon cart!
Also the nice thing is they took down that tree and I was able to hatchet away some of the trunk and create a channel for water and now the cord and protector fit in that lower slot and are lower than the next slab of concrete - works nicely. I'll take another video once I get everything done.

Thanks!

 

[bradleydavidgood777]

Question about the L6-20 connector:

When I plug it in and twist, it twists about an eighth of an inch and seems kind of loose to me. I guess I was thinking it would be tighter - requiring more force to twist and would hold tight. I kept trying to force it farther but I guess that's how it works.... correct?

 

[Don]

Correct - If you look at the pins, you'll see that it can't twist very far . . . . just far enough to lock it so it won't pull apart

Don