240V Charging and Extension cables (Amazing-E)

[bradleydavidgood777]

Hi,

I have a 2017 i-miev and usually charge for free at the work lot and at home using 120V.

I purchased the Amazing-e EVSE because I wanted to be able to charge faster at times at home and at other people's homes who may have different types of dryer recepticles. I also want to be able to charge at RV recepticles.

What I am trying to figure out is what to buy next and how to set it all up and I think I have a plan but want the opinion and ideas of those who have done this.

My dryer currently is 3 prong. I can't reach to the car in the back lot without a long extension cord.

I think 240V extension cords are normally sold for RVs so they would be a NEMA 14-50 connection.

So I think to start I would buy an RV extention cord (NEMA 14-50) on both ends, then buy or make an adapter to use from that to the 3 prong dryer outlet (NEMA 10-30). This way I have what I need for my home and old dryer connections at other homes. For this set up I would also need an adapter from the extension cord (NEMA 14-50) to the Amazing e EVSE which is 4 prong dryer male (NEMA 14-30).

Once I got that working then I would probably update my dryer recepticle from 3 prong to 4 prong so that I don't need to use that adapter. But would keep that adapter for use on the road.

Before I proceed I just wanted to see if anyone had any other ideas and that I am thinking about this correctly.

Also I am looking for places to buy the extension cord and adapters or websites on how to make your own adapters and any other advice.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Aivar]

Extending high amperage is dangerous and you need to make sure you have what it needs. Look for cables that have good size AWG wire and are not damaged. The longer the cable the smaller the AWG number. Most codes will give you minimum but I say get one to make sure you don't fail. Like 6 AWG copper for 50f cable. Keep in mind that 50amp extension cords will cost hundreds of dollars so finding the shortest option is worth the money.

 

[jray3]

Extending the cables is not dangerous if basic precautions are taken, especially since our cars only charge at 16 amps . My EVSE has been on a homebuilt extension cord (10 GA 3-wire) since 2011.
On this forum, JoeS has got to be the adaptor king. Take a look at his collection.
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1497&p=9497&hilit=plug+adaptors#p9497

 

[iwatson]

BradleyDavidGood777,

You are correct. The RV extension cord you refer to is designed to handle a 50 amp load. These are for Large motorhomes that have two air conditioners as well as all the other power used by the motorhome and they are not cheap. They are not the extension cords you use to run a string of christmas lights. The amperage they are designed to handle is far greater than your little i-miev will pull.

 

[Don]

For sure he doesn't need a very expensive 50 amp RV extension cord to charge his car which cannot draw any more than 16 amps - That would be a huge waste of money!

Better to build your own custom cord using 10 gauge wire as jray3 suggested and put the ends you need on that wire. 10 gauge wire is rated to handle 30 amps. Much cheaper than an RV cord

Actually, if the cord is 50 feet or less, buying a standard 50 foot 12 gauge cord, cutting the ends off it and putting your own connectors on it would also work just fine and be cheaper yet. 12 gauge wire is rated to handle 20 amps. If you need a cord longer than 50 feet though, I would stick with 10 gauge wire

Don

 

[Aerowhatt]

Done this . . . You can use 12 gauge extension cord if you do it right. It's easy to carry and much less expensive.

The key is to have a circuit breaker at the power source end that matches your long cables capacity. I went with an outdoor conduit pull box and mounted a couple of din rails in it to mount two 20 amp circuit breakers inside it for the two hot 120 volt legs.

So from the high amp plug you have a short section (2 ft or less) of 30 amp cable with whatever receptacle you like. Then your fabricated box with breakers. Then the 50 ft of quality 12 gauge extension cord to run to your car and connected to the EVSE with whatever connector it comes with. Everything needs to be waterproof. It was easier than it sounds to put it together. In use, if anything happens to the cord after your added breakers then you don't have an out of control heating element wrapped in flammable materials with only the 30 amp or 50 amp breaker protection of the source circuit. They won't trip and it will start a fire!

It's the only way to do it right . . . except to run 6 Ga cable the whole run. Bye bye trunk space and don't forget the gym membership to stay in shape to lug it around.

Aerowhatt

 

[ChrisEV]

Thought it was a bad idea to use the dryer outlet for charging. Something about those outlets not designed to be plugged/unplugged very frequently.

My dryer is in the basement I’d need to run a really long cord.

 

[jray3]

Yes, you certainly want to avoid running a long extension cord through the house or landscaping. My cord is just to enable the EVSE to be positioned on a post central to four parking spaces (two in the garage, two outside). It runs under a protective curb.
However, setting up your EVSE to be plug-connected is a big plus for portability. I installed a NEMA 14-50 outlet very close to the breaker box in the garage (easy DIY, no in-wall studs to drill through), and run the extension cord from there. It only gets disconnected a few times per year, but the electrical components don't wear out from regular use- there's just a lot of insertion effort required for a 14-50, many of the plugs aren't very ergonomic, and some of the outlet boxes are not well secured, so will loosen up (plastic box nailed to a single stud and clamped to drywall by the cover plate).
Now that public EVSE is reasonably easy to find around the Puget Sound, I rarely carry the L2 EVSE, but did so frequently in 2012-14. If I was living someplace with less infrastructure, I'd certainly want a portable L1/L2 EVSE with variable amperage settings. My SPX (now Bosch Power Express) was the first such unit, though better options are out there now, like the dual-voltage TurboCord and the cheaper DoStar.

http://store.evsolutions.com/turboc...kHBT_RTBvm8ASrprBYq7ruEcryi6Yw3IaAk6AEALw_wcB.

 

[bradleydavidgood777]

Thanks for all of the replies. I have studied the home made adapters pages on the web.

My first step has been that I purchased a 50' and a 100' 10 gauge 120v extension cables. I installed these at my home running them to my front parking spot and also my back parking spot (both are needed depending on what's open).

These have 120 3 prong connectors and I am currently using the stock charger.

Next I want to build custom cables from new extension cables that I order (after cutting off the 3 prong 110).

I am getting an electrician at some point to upgrade my dryer from 3 to 4 prong but currently have 3 prong and would like to make a custom adapter from 3 to 4 prong. I understand from someone else's video that the ground is not used in the amazing-e so no need for it to be hooked up.

I cannot find the 4 prong dryer receptacle (female) (NEMA 14-30) that attaches to a cord. I can only find the ones for the wall. Ideally I was thinking of building an adapter from a 3 prong dryer cord to a 4 prong. Then on the extension cable, put 4 prong dryer connectors on both ends (can't find these either). But if I could build this, I would have a cable I could use at home and then have one for away and it could be used in both 3 and 4 prong dryer locations...and would be good to go when I get mine upgraded.

I just can't find all of the parts and see how its all going to come together nicely. Also, another option is to wait and have the electrician install some new 240 outlet outside of my house thru the wall near my dryer since he is going to get into that wall anyway for the new dryer cable....or everything may be run outside of the walls with metal flex or something if available. Just not sure what i want to do....need help with my options and parts locations...

Thanks

 

[Don]

As Aerowhatt mentioned earlier, if you want to charge from a dryer outlet using a 10 or 12 gauge extension cord, you must employ a properly rated fuse or circuit breaker very near the dryer outlet you're plugging into - Your dryer outlet is probably breakered at 40 or 50 amps and your 10 or 12 gauge cord cannot handle that current should you have a short circuit somewhere . . . . you could start a fire when the extension cord overheats and melts

You could buy a small box, mount a pair of 20 amp fuses in it, buy a standard dryer plug and cord and run that into your box and run your 10 or 12 gauge extension cord out of the box and to your EVSE plug. This way, you're 100% safe (and legal) and if something happens, you'll blow the fuses rather than melting the cord

Don

 

[bradleydavidgood777]

Genious Don! Thank you. That is an awesome idea. I guess I could ground the box to a copper grounding rod 6 feet into the ground outside - which I am going to install for the solar panels and inverter system anyway. That way the 4th wire of the EVSE receptacle (female) in the box would be grounded to the box and to the rod in the ground....so then I am protected by the fuses and the grounding. I am not sure abou that but grounding sounds like a good idea to me just in case anything gets in contact with any of the 240v at some point. And in the solar/turbine system that I'm hooking up too....which is 24v...and it says to ground it on the positive side of that system. And to run grounds to the housing of each panel. So all of that would have to be connected to the ground rod eventually. I think I'll run all of this by the electrician before I turn it on and maybe just continue with the 120v for now. If I'm going to install a box for EV charging, maybe I just want that to be done by an electrician - with your suggestion in mind. Would be a good first step working with the electrician.

First step would be to upgrade my dryer plug to 4 prong receptacle (with new wire from main utility panel) and also install a separate EV breaker box with the fuses and ground the whole thing. I could also get my 100 amp main box replaced with a 200 amp box because I need to do that anyway and that would take care of all of my main big wires and the major upgrades. The I could do the other stuff later with the solar/turbine/battery bank and also the conversion from gas hot water to instant electric water.

I think you really helped me get to my next steps. Thank you!!! If anyone has any other ideas based upon hearing the other factors I just mentioned let me know!

Thanks for your help!

 

[JoeS]

Dryers are usually plugged into 30A circuits. Old dryer outlets were NEMA 10-30 and new dryer outlets are now NEMA 14-30.

Ovens and RVs nowadays utilize NEMA 14-50, which is the outlet I would install for EV use if at all possible.

I once tried to install 14-50 in a garage and made the mistake of telling the inspector it was for a dryer and thus had to subsequently back off and put in a 30A circuit breaker and 14-30 outlet.

The 14-50 and 14-30 Ground and Neutral are tied together at the circuit breaker panel, which is then supposed to be properly 'grounded'. bradleydavidgood777, if you utilize an electrician s/he will hopefully be up to speed regarding the latest codes and appropriate grounding (which are ever-changing, especially in the world of renewable energy). As an aside, HomePower magazine has an informative discussion of code updates and implementation in every issue.

Many years ago I standardized my collection of adapters using NEMA L6-30 which was far more than adequate for the i-MiEV.http://www.katiekat.net/Vehicles/Mitsi/EVSEAdaptersJoeS.pdf
Now, with modern EV chargers drawing 32A, I find that my collection is obsolete and I keep adding more.

Looking to the future, although I'm comfortably running my Tesla HPWC at 40A on the three-prong 6-50 welder circuit for now, I can program my Tesla with dual chargers to draw 80A so I'm contemplating hardwiring the HPWC into my presently-unused furnace 100A circuit if I want to run any higher. Why unused? - I burned wood for 20 years, but now understand the carcinogenic and greenhouse gas error of my ways and still don't use the darn thing and simply have space heaters scattered throughout my all-electric house. :roll:

 

[bradleydavidgood777]

Thanks JoeS. The amazing e plug is 4 prong dryer 14-30. So that's why I was thinking of upgrading the dryer outlet and then I could plug into that. However, that would not work because the amazing e cord is not long enough to reach my car. So I think your idea would be good. Install the 14-50 as a second outlet with proper safety and codes and then use a 14-50 RV extension cord and then an adapter from 14-50 to 14-30 so that the amazing e can plug into the 14-30. Sound like a plan?

 

[bradleydavidgood777]

I'm going to revive this old thread. Since I'm having issues with my stock EVSE, I'm thinking about this AmazingE EVSE I have laying around. It would be nice to have this as an option because it would then allow me to charge at 16A instead of the 12A I charge at now. Does anyone know how long it takes to charge fully from zero on 16A? If I could do that in 10-12 hours then it would really make this option attractive and maybe worth paying an electrician to do this work and get it all done right somehow.

I've given up on the idea of using my dryer outlet because it is in the back of the house and I would want to charge in front of the house. So I'm thinking that I would need to get a new circuit run to an outdoor waterproof box in the front of the house so that I can plug in outside with a NEMA 14-50 extension cord going to the car (35-40 feet). From there I would still need an adapter from the 14-50 to the AmazingE which is 14-30. Unless I just cut that 14-30 off the AmazingE and put a 14-50 plug on it (if that would be safe to do for the outdoor connection in the weather).

My 100Amp main box is full so I would need a sub box or a new 200Amp box which I know is expensive.

So assuming I do a sub box off the main, a new circuit from that thru the basement 35 feet, thru thick stone foundation to the outside to mount an outside waterproof 14-50 receptacle with it all up to code and safe. Then buy an RV cable 14-50 on both ends, and replace the AmazingE plug with a 14-50 plug (outdoor).

What do you guys think of that plan? Does it make sense and what price range would you think I would be in for an electrician to do that job? I am just trying to make a plan and understand how much it would cost and if it would be worth it to get to 16A. And that has to do with how fast I can get the car charged on 16A. If I can charge the car fully in 12 hours that means I come home on fumes, plug in, wake up and go do it again the next day, which is attractive to me because there is a possibility that I can't get into my spot at work some days and come home empty.

 

[wmcbrine]

From there I would still need an adapter from the 14-50 to the AmazingE which is 14-30. Unless I just cut that 14-30 off the AmazingE and put a 14-50 plug on it (if that would be safe to do for the outdoor connection in the weather).

If you remove the neutral prong from a 14-30 plug, it will fit into either a 14-30 or 14-50 receptacle, as well as into the rarely-seen 14-60. Most EVSEs don't use the neutral at all, so this is pretty safe. I dunno about the AmazingE.

I'm not sure what you're asking about the charging times. A Level 2 (240V) charge, on the i-MiEV, maxes out at 13.75A (not 16), and takes about 6 hours, as it says in the i-MiEV's manual. If you're thinking of a Level 1 (120V) charge at 16A, well, that wouldn't involve NEMA 14-* plugs...

 

[Don]

Yes, the difference between charging with 12 amps and 16 is pretty minimal, since the car won't draw much more than 13. I've been charging at 12 for 6 years. Recently bought a 16 amp EVSE for my Volt and installed it much like you are thinking of doing

My wife's ceramic kiln has it's own dedicated outlet in the garage which she makes use of about twice a year. It's on a 40 amp breaker, so I made a 12/3 pigtail to plug into that. The pigtail runs to a pair of ceramic fuse sockets I mounted near the ceiling with 20 amp cartridge fuses and from there I ran 12/3 wire to my new outlet, which is an L6-20 Twist Lock mounted on a pole close to the car. I installed an L6-20 plug on my new EVSE and the Volt charges at the max it's capable of, drawing just shy of 16 amps

http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4018

Don

 

[bradleydavidgood777]

From there I would still need an adapter from the 14-50 to the AmazingE which is 14-30. Unless I just cut that 14-30 off the AmazingE and put a 14-50 plug on it (if that would be safe to do for the outdoor connection in the weather).

If you remove the neutral prong from a 14-30 plug, it will fit into either a 14-30 or 14-50 receptacle, as well as into the rarely-seen 14-60. Most EVSEs don't use the neutral at all, so this is pretty safe. I dunno about the AmazingE.

I'm not sure what you're asking about the charging times. A Level 2 (240V) charge, on the i-MiEV, maxes out at 13.75A (not 16), and takes about 6 hours, as it says in the i-MiEV's manual. If you're thinking of a Level 1 (120V) charge at 16A, well, that wouldn't involve NEMA 14-* plugs...

Thanks wmcbrine,

That's a good idea about removing the ground. However, the AmazingE manual indicates that a fault will occur if proper grounding is not present. (Page 10 of the manual https://amazing-e.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/AmazingE-User-Manual-20170602.pdf)

Also, there is this on their website:
Q: I have an older home that has a 3-wire 240V receptacle vice the 14-30, 4 wire that your product uses. Do you make a 3 prong 240V charger?
A: The 3 prong dryer outlet is an older style dryer outlet that was replaced with the 4 prong outlet in the early 90s. The 3 prong outlet is called the NEMA 10-30 and we do not offer the AmazingE with the matching plug type because the corresponding outlet for this plug type is typically wired with a neutral wire as opposed to an earth ground and the AmazingE will require an earth ground connection in order to operate properly. Additionally, when charging a vehicle the ground is passed through to the vehicle from the station for safety earth grounding during charging. If a neutral is used instead of a ground the neutral could generate a charge on the vehicle chassis, creating a potential safety hazard upon contact with the vehicle during or after charging. If you find a charging station available with the NEMA 10-30 plug it is likely not safety certified. It would be recommended to have your outlet repurposed into the NEMA 14-30 outlet to match the plug type that comes with the AmazingE.

So I actually think I may need to have an earth ground installed (grounding rod). Unless the jump to the copper water pipe that I have is a sufficient "earth ground".

What I'm asking about charging time is what I could expect from the AmazingE. Time to charge the i-Miev from totally empty to full. Their documentation says that it will deliver 11 miles per hour at 16A. And I someone stated earlier in this thread that the i-miev charges at 16A. So that's where I got that from. User manual page 24 is where it says maximum current 16A. I don't see the charge times in the i-miev manual but 6 hours sounds great. The AmazingE is level 2 (240V).

 

[bradleydavidgood777]

Yes, the difference between charging with 12 amps and 16 is pretty minimal, since the car won't draw much more than 13. I've been charging at 12 for 6 years. Recently bought a 16 amp EVSE for my Volt and installed it much like you are thinking of doing

My wife's ceramic kiln has it's own dedicated outlet in the garage which she makes use of about twice a year. It's on a 40 amp breaker, so I made a 12/3 pigtail to plug into that. The pigtail runs to a pair of ceramic fuse sockets I mounted near the ceiling with 20 amp cartridge fuses and from there I ran 12/3 wire to my new outlet, which is an L6-20 Twist Lock mounted on a pole close to the car. I installed an L6-20 plug on my new EVSE and the Volt charges at the max it's capable of, drawing just shy of 16 amps

http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4018

Don

Thanks Don,

I am currently charging at 12A level 1 (120V). So I'm thinking that the upgrade to the AmazingE level 2 240V would be about 3 times faster which would be like wmcbrine said - about 6 hours.

I'm just trying to figure out what to tell the electrician that I want and what cords I'm going to use from the new outdoor socket to the car and adapters...

 

[JoeS]

My 100Amp main box is full so I would need a sub box or a new 200Amp box which I know is expensive.

Code will probably not allow an additional sub-box. If you upgrade your main panel to 200A, then go ahead and run the conduit and put in a NEMA 14-50 outlet, as this will future-proof you for your next EV. The increase in hardware cost over a 14-30 should be minimal, and the labor is the same.

Without getting into a grounding discussion, just note that Neutral and Ground are tied together at your house power input panel. EVSEs typically do not use Neutral or Ground for carrying any current.

The i-MiEV does NOT draw 16A at 240vac, no matter what the EVSE is capable of. I think the most I ever saw was 13A using my 40A E-Motor Werks EVSE with my i-MiEV.

If you're going for low cost, then the EVSE Don bought for his Volt for under $200 would be my preference; nevertheless, I'd be inclined to buy something that could provide 24A or 32A or even higher for your next EV. I talked my brother-in-law into getting this 32A (adjustable and 120vac/240vac) EVSE for his BoltEV, and it will handle just about any situation on the road:
https://www.evseadapters.com/collec.../products/16-30a-adjustable-120-240v-charger-evse

 

[Don]

Without getting into a grounding discussion, just note that Neutral and Ground are tied together at your house power input panel. EVSEs typically do not use Neutral or Ground for carrying any current.

Not only are they tied together, they are also tied to an 8 foot copper clad ground rod driven into the ground just below the power panel where utility power enters your house, so whenever you tie to either neutral or ground, you're getting an earth ground. The neutral wire is also grounded at most power (telephone) poles, which is why it can be an uninsulated wire coming to your house - Neutral *is* grounded in so many places

Don