12 kW chademo charging

[nuggetgalore]

...
Re the P1A14 , so what would happen if I connected the QC relay with jumpers and added a switched 12 V into pos 1. Obviously without the 12 V into pos 1 the car would see nothing different until pin 10 is to ground in the chademo port. But would there be a problem when the QC contactors close but the QC relay is not on?
The other option would be to get a relay to take pos 4 to ground, that closes the QC relay and have a relay that connects pin 3 with pin 10.

What is it that you are trying to do--i don't understand this mess, it doesn't make any sense to me. For all we know the Orange wire gets powered from the EV-ECU similar to how the EV Control Relay is powered. Your car has modifications from the FSM with an unknown additional black box...?

Sorry for the mess.
What I have achieved so far is to close the QC contactors with the QC relay disconnected, charge normally and drive the car. But disconnecting the relay causes the HV warning light to come on and sets DTC P1A14 (CODE No. P1A14 QUICK CHARGE CONTACTOR CIRCUIT LOW).
I am contemplating to experimentally connect a second pack via the chademo port to get an idea of how that pack behaves under load. For this I would like to have the HV warning light off and possibly see if and when another error is created.
My question is what problems could I run into if I have the QC relay connected (the HV warning light off) and at the same time (artificially) close the QC contactors, I don't see a problem but I'm not confident.
Anyway, that experiment is several weeks away as I have to wait for the covid 19 restriction to end before continuing the pack assembly.

 

[kiev]

The DCQC relay bypass trick was only intended to allow access to the HV of a stationary pack, such as for an emergency backup power supply for home, or for diy DC charging without using the CHAdeMO protocol.

Normally the car won't go to READY with the DCQC contactors energized, but i think maybe a couple of guys on here have tried to do something like what you are talking about. i've seen the videos of at least 3 laef guys who tried adding a 2nd pack, 2 totally burned, and 1 totally bricked.

https://youtu.be/2cIo95W-vfE

https://youtu.be/8PUG-ldjD48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zivzvh9Bx0

 

[nuggetgalore]

The DCQC relay bypass trick was only intended to allow access to the HV of a stationary pack, such as for an emergency backup power supply for home, or for diy DC charging without using the CHAdeMO protocol.

Normally the car won't go to READY with the DCQC contactors energized, but i think maybe a couple of guys on here have tried to do something like what you are talking about. i've seen the videos of at least 3 laef guys who tried adding a 2nd pack, 2 totally burned, and 1 totally bricked.

Thanks for reminding me to be extremely careful and conscious of the dangers of high voltage and high power. As I posted in the AEVA aftermarket battery upgrade thread, my intentions were to test the 60AH cell pack with the car blocked up, not on the road. But maybe that is not a good idea either.

 

[bennelson]

Hey Folks!

I've been working on a CHAdeMO project to draw power out through the CHAdeMO port, take it through an inverter, and convert it to 120/240VAC 60 Hz for emergency home backup power.

I had a friend 3D print for me the physical components you can find at: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:121581

I then used some brass components to make signal pins, and some 9 mm copper rod to make the main power pins.

I got some 600V-rated SOOW jacketed cable with (3) 12 AWG conductors. I built a 500VDC fuse directly inside the CHAdeMO handle.

I used some networking cable to connect up the signal pins, and terminated the opposite ends of those wires to ground, or whatever else their appropriate use would be. For Pin 10 on the CHAdeMO, I ran that through a switch and then to ground. That gives me a manual control over activating that pin.

In the back of the car, under the seat, I've jumpered pins 1 & 2 together as has been talked about earlier in this thread.

If I plug the 3D printed CHAdeMO handle into the car, turn the car on (activates power at the QC relay) and turn on the switch for CHAdeMO pin 10 (grounds it) then I get my 360VDC at the output of the cable.

Next, I have to get the hybrid solar inverter (in the mail right now) and a few other things going, such as a precharge circuit to the inverter.

Here's a quick video showing some of what I've done so far.
https://youtu.be/Cw-SMRmZjNI

I also plan to seal/coat the 3D printed parts, so there's no concern about it being too fragile, or water getting in there, etc. I've heard good things about UV activated resins, and am thinking about getting something like this to brush on the outside. https://amzn.to/3qbGzb8
I can also seal the seam with 100% silicone caulk. I'll probably finish covering any exposed conductor inside the handle with Kapton tape.

 

[kiev]

Wow, great job Ben. i really like how you Nickel plated the pin, that was awesome.

How long do you figure you can run the V2H from Full to the Empty?

 

[bennelson]

Runtime would be dependent on the car's battery pack capacity and the AC load put on it by the house.

My car has never had a great battery. I only get about 40 miles on it nowadays.

I imagine using this as an emergency backup. As such, I would try to minimize how much power was drawn out of the pack. I'd have it just run my fridge/freezer, a light or two, charge some phones, furnace blower fan in the winter - just the basics.

My solar array uses grid-tie micro-inverters. Those do NOT run in a grid-down situation, but I think that I could kick them on using a hybrid inverter.

I just got a SolarCity H6 inverter in the mail the other day. The battery input on it uses high voltage, but it's a little HIGHER than what the iMiEV pack puts out. I think I can run the battery in to the solar input by adding a fuse and pre-charge circuit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFLXikXjxY4

 

[bennelson]

Here's what I did for hacking the High Voltage relay.
Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBV9CIVN0fs

 

[jray3]

Bravo, Ben!
Siai47 started us down this path years ago, but a video is worth a million words.
Why are you setting it up for ignition-on operation only?
Since the ignition key must be off to commence a DCFC, I expect that the BMS will be energized whenever the relay is closed, and that the main thing you'll be missing out on is interpreting the BMS output to shut it down in the EVent of over-discharge or overcharge- should the same handle be used for solar charging or DIY DCFC using an offboard charger such as the Manzanita Micro PFC-50.

I have a CHAdeMO handle-in-waiting, and hope to replicate your efforts, once proven.
I'm just interested in having the contactor switch on the CHAdeMO handle using the original activation pins.
Keep up the good work.
-Jay

 

[bennelson]

I guess the main thing is that just going straight analog lets me get going in the project and then test the solar inverter part of it.
How and which solar inverters can handle the 360VDC on the PV input is the big question that I really haven't seen others tackle yet.

There's no reason why I can't still use CAN with the CHAdeMO protocols, but I need to learn some more about communications, purchase a micro-controller with CAN connections, and find out what the actual commands would be.

Most of the info I've been able to find about DIY CHAdeMO is on the car side - such as adding a CHAdeMO input to a DIY electric vehicle.

 

[pbui19]

I just got a SolarCity H6 inverter in the mail the other day. The battery input on it uses high voltage, but it's a little HIGHER than what the iMiEV pack puts out. I think I can run the battery in to the solar input by adding a fuse and pre-charge circuit.

Ben - i don't think you can do that, connecting the battery to the PV input. PVs are inherent a current source and battery has infinite current, it's going to blow.

But this is the first inverter i've seen with such a high battery voltage spec. What is the iMiev pack voltage again ? haven't look at Canion nor the other one for over a year.

 

[bennelson]

Remember though, CURRENT is about how much is DRAWN through a circuit.

There is a maximum that solar can provide. There is a much HIGHER current that a battery can supply. However, it depends on how much the inverter draws.

For an off-grid inverter, only as much current is drawn as is needed for the AC output the inverter creates, plus the inverter overhead and inefficiencies.

It shouldn't matter whether the current is drawn in through PV input or the BATTERY input in that they are both about the same range. (iMiEV battery is 360VDC fully charged)

One difference I did see is that the battery input has fuses on it, while the solar input does not. I'll just need to add fusing on the PV in.
If something bad happens, it's the fuses that will blow.

 

[JoeS]

..I'll just need to add fusing on the PV in. If something bad happens, it's the fuses that will blow.

Ben, it may be too late if the fuses blow. I would start off by sticking a resistor in series with that input to limit the current. And please do be careful, as those voltages are lethal!

 

[bennelson]

Experimenting so far is at a lower voltage and a source OTHER than the car.
Yes, I'm making sure to take care around high-voltage.
The fuses that I'm using are the exact same ones as are on the BATTERY INPUT of the inverter. I also installed a "semi-conductor fuse" in the handle of the CHAdeMO connector for when I eventually get to connecting the car to the inverter. Semi-conductor fuses are supposed to be fast enough to protect MOSFETS and the like.

 

[pbui19]

Remember though, CURRENT is about how much is DRAWN through a circuit.

There is a maximum that solar can provide. There is a much HIGHER current that a battery can supply. However, it depends on how much the inverter draws.

For an off-grid inverter, only as much current is drawn as is needed for the AC output the inverter creates, plus the inverter overhead and inefficiencies.

It shouldn't matter whether the current is drawn in through PV input or the BATTERY input in that they are both about the same range. (iMiEV battery is 360VDC fully charged)

glad to hear that you're careful and aware of the situation. Am not entirely sure how the MPP circuitry works, but it may pull max current while watching for Vpv to drop to determine that max-point. If only we put in a max current limiter in series.

One problem with connecting the iMiev pack to the solar input is the preclusion of charging the iMiev pack. But you're in baby-stepping phase.

Where did you purchase the SolarCity H6 ? ebay has it for $400 but with no-warranty. The spec doesn't state whether it's pure sinewave AC output, but I would assume so given the UL certification.

 

[bennelson]

I bought the inverter on eBay. None of those will have a warranty. They are orphaned. It's true sine wave with 120/240 split-phase 60 hz output.

At this point, I'm not trying to CHARGE the car through the CHAdeMO, just draw power out. I plan to use the standard AC charger for recharging.

The car could be recharged from wall power after a blackout.

I have grid-tie solar, using micro-inverters. Of course those need an AC signal to lock on to. There's some possibility that I could use the H6 inverter to kick those on and then draw power from the AC side of things when it's sunny.

But baby steps. Just making sure not to blow up the inverter first.

I did a test of powering on the inverter with some DC power supplies and pre-charging with a light-bulb.

https://youtu.be/mFcz4uzscx4

 

[pbui19]

got an idea to run by folks: how about fabricating an external pack of 15-16 in series of the iMiev cell (L50N ?) , connect to the iMiev pack in series via the Chamedo port, then the H6 can see the 400vdc effectively. Probably 16S is better given available BMS. Just have to be crazy careful and fuse properly, that 400vdc can kill.

very much appreciate the video Ben. What is/are your grid-tie inverter/s ? micro-Enphase ? M250/iQ6-7 ? or ?

May have to get one of these H6s.

Thanks

 

[bennelson]

I'm using Enphase M15 micro-inverters with 250 watt PV panels. 26 of them total.

Adding additional cells in series to an iMiEV pack probably wouldn't be very useful. Even if it was high enough voltage for the battery input on the H6 inverter, the H6 still requires communications to the battery pack. The inverter was really designed for just ONE particular battery pack - a high-voltage DC Tesla Powerwall unit.

 

[pbui19]

I'm using Enphase M15 micro-inverters with 250 watt PV panels. 26 of them total.

Adding additional cells in series to an iMiEV pack probably wouldn't be very useful. Even if it was high enough voltage for the battery input on the H6 inverter, the H6 still requires communications to the battery pack. The inverter was really designed for just ONE particular battery pack - a high-voltage DC Tesla Powerwall unit.

The MeanWell power supply in series remind me of the grid-charger I built for the Insight. Joes probably has one too. It was a decent way to "current limit". Is it conceivable to put one in series with the iMiev 360vdc as a current limiter ?

looking forward to find out if you can AC-couple the M215 Enphase micros, though that would be after the iMiev step.

Do you have any link/info about that communication protocols/messages between the H6 & Tesla Powerwall-1 ? probably a CAN bus of some sort, and probably for BMS purpose.

 

[bennelson]

No. I haven't found any information about the data connection between the H6 inverter and original Powerwall battery.

I did run the inverter from my electric motorcycle. That seemed to work well.
I have a short video about that on vimeo
https://vimeo.com/661523307/fe9c910296

 

[pbui19]

any update on accessing the iMiev main pack for V2H ?

My 2007 Fronius ig3000 grid-tie is on its last leg, so I have been browsing around looking for replacement, and ran into this hybrid grid-tie inverter series with 400vdc nominal battery input, Growatt MIN 3000-76000TL-X-US. That battery voltage range is right up the iMiev pack range.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gnkF2jHLPj-9UMKlsQrQXx5Hj6b6NCDB/preview

Please take a look and let me know your thoughts. It even has UL certificate and approved for grid-tie. TBD is the battery interface details, as the MIN xx may require some serial communication