12 kW chademo charging

[DonDakin]

I found this while surfing around. Very interesting. I guess they will have this type of solution available to purchase soon.

It would be great to stick one of these in the trunk and use 60 amp evses at almost full power.

I guess you could get 80 % in a little over an hour.



http://youtu.be/2xdSBkSUeDI

Don....

 

[siai47]

I actually charge my I-MiEV with a 12 KW charger. I removed the factory QC connector and replaced it with a 175 amp Anderson connector. I tapped into the control circuit for the QC charging relays under the back seat and installed a switch to control them on the dash. Using a Manzanita Micro PFC-50B charger on a 50 amp circuit I can charge the I-MiEV from LBW to 80% in less then 45 minutes. I set the limits on the charger to taper at 365 volts which occurs right near 80% according to CANION. No heating issues or balance issues. Because I leave the car in the "ready" position, I can even provide cold air to the pack from the A/C system if needed. If I want to complete the charge and/or enable cell balancing I finish with the standard EVSE using the internal 3.3 KW charger. Nothing weird to date and it sure gives a quick turnaround when you need it.

 

[DonDakin]

It's really amazing that you have managed hook up a 12 kW charger to the imiev. What you have done is not really a mod for everyone. But this charger with chademo control could be used by anyone and on a leaf also. Looks like a very nice solution also acts as a backup charger.

If come out at the right price point it could be very popular and help the imiev keep pace with newer ev's coming out.


Don.....

 

[siai47]

Re-reading my post, I messed up a bit---the charge from LBW to 80% is just a little over an hour, not 45 minutes. In any event, although the Chademo Adapter is great, my problem is there aren't any Chademo QC stations within driving range of my I-MiEV. However there are plenty of J1772 public stations. Most public stations will output a minimum of 30 amps with a few providing higher outputs. Even 30 amp stations will give a tad over 7 KW of input power to a charger. The big limitation on the I-MiEV is its range because of it's pack size. A further limitation is the recharge time with the 3.3 KW charger provided in the vehicle. Another problem is at most public stations, you are being charged for electricity by time and not by KHW delivered to the vehicle. So if you are not using the full output available at the public station you are being overcharged on a KWH basis for the electricity you are receiving. Although what I did to modify the I-MiEV wouldn't be for everyone, it could be a path for those who don't have Chademo near them. In my case, I already had the PFC-50 charger (along with a way to provide power to it with a J1772 connector) so the mod was really cheap to do---less then $100. Even if I didn't have a car with the Chademo QC option, I could still tap into the battery pack and do the same thing. This is not really a cost effective thing to do but was a fun exercise. Now if someone could do a Tesla Supercharger to Chademo----That would be fun as there is one of those 20 miles from my house :lol:

 

[jray3]

You go siai47! I too have a Manzanita Micro charger, but just an old 20 amp version, so not worth the ChAdeMO hack unless I could get it to charge at the same time as the onboard charger. However, my PFC20 is a beta testing unit for Manzanita. We tested with their J1772 "Smart Box" prototype, and it will next be testing their fully integrated J1772 interface. Whether that can translate into 'dual chargers' as offered on Tesla and done with Brusa chargers on some LEAFs remains to be seen.

Re: a Supercharger adaptor. I trolled that across the Seattle EVA list, and got absolutely attacked by one of the way-too-serious Microsofty Tesla drivers.
Apparently one needs a brain transplant from a Model S for supercharging, not just the pilot signal. Otmar's Stretchla project will be doing this, with a quiet nod from Tesla, as he purchased the salvage Model S that had pre-paid for supercharger access. http://cafeelectric.com/stretchla/

 

[JoeS]

siai47, thank you for your posts. I'm a bit concerned with your 365v, as my Canion shows exatly 360vdc at 100% SoC. Your 365v translates to 4.091v/cell. 365v would be getting it up to 4.148v/cell. Doesn't really matter, as you shut down before then and use the built-in iMiEV BMS for topping up, anyway.

I'm doing something similar with my Sparrow and its EnerDel lithiums (NMC): to increase charging rate (for the few very rare times that I need to), I simply parallel a few of my 120vac and 240vac Zivans - have stuffed over 40A at 140vdc into the pack with no temperature rise at all. At 5C max charging, my 62Ah EnerDel pack should be good for over 300A steady-state if I want to… NOT!

Now, I'm interested in putting an Anderson connector onto our i-MiEV pack so I can try out a range-extender concept as well as a parallel charger, but I don't have CHAdeMO: where would you suggest is the best/easiest place to tap into the HV? What I was thinking of doing is adding a pigtail and bringing it up behind the little panel door in the right rear, although alternately I could put a small hatch onto the left rear cover in the CHAdeMO input area.

For my battery-powered range-extender I was looking at having it diode-isolated and kick in when the main pack started getting below about 345v-350v. Even though I have enough EnerDels to get up to that voltage in series, I prefer limiting everything that's exposed to 48vdc. Still looking for a 48v-->350v dc-dc converter with an output of over a kilowatt.

 

[siai47]

I initially connected the charger at the battery terminals located in the drive inverter. You take the little cover off and you see the two battery cable ends and the three drive motor connecters. Using a right angled ring terminal I attached a pair of #6 leads to a Anderson connecter to test it out. In this configuration, you must have the car in the "ready" position to close the main contactor and to allow the BMS to record the charging data so your SOC remains correct. At the time, the pack I had in the car was the original so I didn't have access to a chademo connecter to butcher until I replaced the pack with the one from the wreck. For a more permanent solution, you can remove the top from the inverter and use regular ring terminals and run them out of the side of the case. The lid to the inverter is sealed with a grey sealant. After you remove the screws you will find a threaded hole in one corner of the cover. Inserting a cover screw into that hole and tightening it carefully will lift the corner and break the seal allowing removal. After you put your cable in, you need to reseal the cover with "Yamabond" which is used in motorcycle crankcases and can be purchased from a Yamaha dealer.

I seem to recall that the parallel charger method held in for a short period of time before I fully ramped up the PFC-50. There might be some lower level that the software in the I-MiEV will accept before terminating the charge. However you must be careful as the battery circuit will open leaving the charger on a open circuit and none of the PFC chargers like that. As to the 365 volts, if you go for 360 you won't get near the 80% SOC you want. Unless you have a badly out of balance battery you won't exceed 4.2 volts which is the max charge voltage for the cells in our cars. The voltage drops quickly back to 4.1 volts after the charge terminates. The PFC charger also backs off and starts a shutdown timer that ramps the current down for the next 10 minutes before shutting off completely. The chademo QC is putting energy at a higher level than I am so a similar voltage must be reached to get to 80% when using QC. Stay safe and have fun with this stuff

 

[JoeS]

siai47, thank you very much for the details. All it takes is time...

Stay safe...

Point well made and worth repeating to everyone: the high voltage we are talking about is lethal. Please do not mess with this unless you know EXACTLY what you're doing!

 

[PV1]

Siai47, does tapping into the battery connectors in the drive inverter require any permanent modifications to the car? I would like to do this for a gas range-extender, but I'm wondering what it will do to my warranty. Is there a way to squeeze 10 AWG wire back through the same holes as the incoming battery wires?

UPDATE. Nevermind. I looked today and there doesn't seem to be a way. What I did notice, though, is the high voltage connection between the drive inverter and charger has a disconnect in it. Could I make a Y cable and run one leg to the generator? Obviously the car has to be in READY.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dhzxyop1pu68xo8/dPpX2BkfSJ

 

[bennelson]

Hi Folks!

A while back, I was talking with JoeS about iMiEV and solar and other things, and he mentioned that he knew of somebody on the forum who did some manual control to the CHAdeMO connection.

I believe he was referring to what siai47 has mentioned in this thread.

I have a 6.24K solar system on my house and am interested in doing some power backup work from the car. (My solar is grid-tie, no batteries.)

It seems to me that most Solar Inverters have a range of voltage input VERY SIMILAR to electric car battery voltages. What I'm interested in doing is to MANUALLY activate the connection from the battery pack to the CHAdeMO connector, and then use that connection to hook the car's traction battery to a stand-along solar series-string inverter, and be able to make 120V/240VAC power from the car for emergency power backup situations.

Siai47, do you have some details (especially photographic or video) on how you "tapped into the control circuit for the QC charging relays under the back seat and installed a switch to control them on the dash"?

If you posted in detail about it in some other thread or forum, could you direct me there?
Thanks!
-Ben Nelson

 

[kiev]

Howdy Ben,

i posted some info about that in the solar charging thread:

Remove the dcqc relay and connect a jumper between position 2 and 1 at relay connector, and jumper pin 3 and 10 at the chademo port to cause pack relays to close and reveal pack voltage at chademo port, positive voltage is on the right.

And here are some pitchers:

[edit oct. 2023, just realized this linked back to the long ago blogs that were supported by the myev site, blogs were cancelled by new management]

this is a picture of the chademo port with terminals identified from my blob site,
http://fsamw.myevblog.com/i-miev-technical-stuff/dc-quick-charge-notes/

 

[bennelson]

Thank you!

 

[JoeS]

BACKGROUND
Even though this topic started out as a direct-dc charging thread, the first step of this puzzle is to access the i-MiEV's high voltage (easiest/safest being through the CHAdeMO connector) and then enable the relay which connects the i-MiEV battery HV to this port. Just did that, and thank you siai47 for your groundbreaking work and kiev for the follow-up details.

Now, having access to this high voltage, here's what we can do with it -

1) Use a high voltage external charger to directly charge the i-MiEV. This allows us to charge our i-MiEV at home at a rate much faster than using the i-MiEV's built-in 3.3kW charger. This is what this thread started out being, with siai47 successfully demonstrating this.

2) Use this high voltage to feed an inverter to produce 240vac/120vac - this is what Ben is now attempting utilizing a solar inverter

3) Use solar panels directly to charge the i-MiEV battery (through a regulator)

4) Utilize external power sources to extend the range of the i-MiEV (e.g., batteries through a dc-dc or a gen set with a controlled dc hv output).

CAUTION: It goes without saying that we're dealing with high voltages which can deliver very high currents. This a a lethal combination and will kill you. Do not mess with this unless you know exactly what you're doing and taking adequate protective measures.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All right, with that out of the way, let's focus on Ben's project - that of utilizing the i-MiEV's high voltage to feed an inverter to provide 240vac/120vac backup power.

First questions for Ben as I'm trying to remember our discussions:

1) Does your solar inverter have a stand-alone operation capability in addition to being grid-tied?
2) Does this inverter have any input-current-limiting capability, recognizing that the i-MiEV battery can produce hundreds of amps?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As an aside, this topic is allied to previous attempts to make a range extender for the i-MiEV as well as direct solar charging. For example, check out this thread on the Australian i-MiEV forum:
http://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=4383&p=58467

The solar charging topic kiev is referring to is -
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3673

Edit: I just noticed that Ben is tackling this area as well:
http://myimiev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2917&start=190#p35098

 

[bennelson]

Hi Joe!

In my case, my PV solar array uses grid-tie micro-inverters. There are many advantages to the system, including the fact that it's one of the simplest/safest types for a DIY'er to install (and thus save lots of money!)

The biggest DISADVANTAGE from a hobbyist's point of view is that it's completely unusable in an off-grid/blackout situation. I'm fine with that, as we have a great publicly owned power utility, nice steady power, and I'm just outside of a small city, rather than in a northwoods cabin somewhere. It just means we won't be using MY system as one to experiment with CHARGING an iMiEV from direct solar.

I am primarily interested in drawing power from the car for emergency backup power or for even something like powering an event somewhere that electricity isn't available. (Power a concert in a park, run something somewhere that a generator would be a nuisance, etc.)

For my idea, I would simply be using a Solar inverter to draw power from the car (at probably no more than 10 amps) and convert it to 120/240VAC. This inverter would be separate from any solar. (Although we could certainly design it so that other people doing the same type of project could be already set for adding their own solar.)

 

[JoeS]

Hi Ben, and apologies as I had forgotten that you were using microinverters.

The problem with traditional off-grid solar systems is that they are designed to power a battery bank and then use that battery bank to feed an inverter. Example is -
https://www.sma.de/en/home-systems/solar-system-off-grid.html

So, the question on the table is what inverter can use the 320vdc-360vdc input range of the i-MiEV battery pack and produce 240vac/120vac without having to sync up to an external 60Hz source?

 

[JoeS]

So, the question on the table is what inverter can use the 320vdc-360vdc input range of the i-MiEV battery pack and produce 240vac/120vac without having to sync up to an external 60Hz source?

I came across this thing in my saved links and couldn't help but wonder if it might not be suitable, but I couldn't determine if it can be used in an off-grid application? (It's specs mention 60Hz grid, so I'm afraid it's probably limited to that)
http://www.electriccarpartscompany.com/2.8kW-GW-Inverter

 

[jray3]

360 VDC input is pretty common in the solar inverter world, with maximum ratings of 420 VDC on both of my string inverters. A regular string inverter may be able to be tricked into starting up via a small pure sine wave inverter such as a UPS, which would have to continue running as a reference signal, otherwise the PV string inverter would think the grid went down and disconnect.

BUT, Sunny Boy TL series will provide battery-free solar AC power during an outage (limited to a small emergency circuit) and their Sunny Island series is compatible with high voltage batteries.
https://www.sma-america.com/products/battery-inverters/sunny-boy-storage-38-us-50-us-60-us.html

 

[JoeS]

360 VDC input is pretty common in the solar inverter world, with maximum ratings of 420 VDC on both of my string inverters. A regular string inverter may be able to be tricked into starting up via a small pure sine wave inverter such as a UPS, which would have to continue running as a reference signal, otherwise the PV string inverter would think the grid went down and disconnect.
BUT, Sunny Boy TL series will provide battery-free solar AC power during an outage (limited to a small emergency circuit) and their Sunny Island series is compatible with high voltage batteries.
https://www.sma-america.com/products/battery-inverters/sunny-boy-storage-38-us-50-us-60-us.html

1. Regarding an inverter providing a reference signal, I guess one would first fire up such an inverter, then attach the large solar inverter to it, and then apply the load, in that sequence. So, still need a small stand-alone inverter running off 360vdc.

2. I had looked at Sunny Island previously, but it's designed around 48vdc battery storage.

 

[bennelson]

I still think it would be best to NOT need a secondary inverter to "trick" the primary one on.
I'm sure that if we look around, we could find an appropriate inverter which can run off 360VDC WITHOUT needing a grid-tie connection.

 

[jray3]

Yes Joe, the Sunny Island was based on 48V, but the new model will support packs anywhere between actual voltages of 100 and 600 VDC. Our 360V pack is right in the middle.
Here's the spec sheet.
http://files.sma.de/dl/30859/SBS3.8-5.0-6.0-US-DUS173415W.pdf