Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fuel

[jsantala]

At least some LEAF models have liquid heat, so it should be possible, but I don't know if the Soul has liquid heat. Does it?

 

[jaraczs]

I have got 2015 Leaf and it does not have liquid heater. Furthermore, it has much better insulated cabin vs. iMiEV and perhaps better than first production years Leafs. I would still prefer combustion heater for any EV. Unfortunately, the after market technical execution of this idea is only getting more difficult for newer EVs.

 

[sandange]

Thanks for your input.

So I would be guessing here but - the Leaf equipped with the heat pump heating system does not have the liquid circulating heating system and therefore you can not use the diesel heater for these models.
What year did they switch or was it an option for the more expensive trims?

 

[DonDakin]

Hi all,

I remember watching this a while back.

http://youtu.be/6saRb8Fh2gE

Don......

I think 2013 was the switch to heat pump for the leaf Not sure if it was model dependant.

 

[sandange]

Thanks for sharing DonD ,
Passing it on to someone who asked on the AVEQ forum.

 

[jaraczs]

Yes, 2013 LEAF and newer got heat pump but only for mid and high trim. The base trim does not have it but there is no liquid heater, it is air heater.

 

[sandange]

I received a follow up letter from JP Parking heater , parking heaters which are similar with webasto and Eberspaecher.
Their site has a nice description of the unit and parts pictures for those interested...

http://www.jp-parkingheater.com/product/html/?19.html

 

[mixmike6]

I received a follow up letter from JP Parking heater , parking heaters which are similar with webasto and Eberspaecher.
Their site has a nice description of the unit and parts pictures for those interested...

http://www.jp-parkingheater.com/product/html/?19.html

Hey Sandange - I would really like to upgrade the heating system. I don't feel comfortable tinkering with the system though. Do you know anyone in the greater Montreal area that could do it for me?

 

[sandange]

Hi Mike
Sorry don't know anyone in the greater Montreal area to do the install.
I did talk with a local independent garage in St Jerome about the heater and having it installed and he was keen to do the work.
That was last year and St Jerome is kind of out of your way.
This was a garage that sells and installs different accessories, remote starters , radios, wind shield replacement etc. is there anyplace like that near you?
These heaters are often used in campers, buses, 18 wheelers.
If you have any kind of local garage that works on those you might find some one who will do the install
Just a reminder that (if you order the heater) it took almost a month to receive it from china (slow boat from china syndrome)

 

[Don]

So I would be guessing here but - the Leaf equipped with the heat pump heating system does not have the liquid circulating heating system and therefore you can not use the diesel heater for these models.

In addition to the liquid parking heaters which are used in applications such as ours, they also make diesel air parking heaters which are used where there is no liquid to heat - You duct the hot air directly into the cabin. I suspect it wouldn't be too difficult to install one of those in later model Leafs

http://www.amazon.com/Gasoline-Parking-Certify-Standard-configuration/dp/B00WQSYRLW

http://www.parkingheaterproducts.com/product/snugger-2kw-air-heater-7800-btu/

Don

 

[mixmike6]

Hi Mike
Sorry don't know anyone in the greater Montreal area to do the install.
I did talk with a local independent garage in St Jerome about the heater and having it installed and he was keen to do the work.
That was last year and St Jerome is kind of out of your way.
This was a garage that sells and installs different accessories, remote starters , radios, wind shield replacement etc. is there anyplace like that near you?
These heaters are often used in campers, buses, 18 wheelers.
If you have any kind of local garage that works on those you might find some one who will do the install
Just a reminder that (if you order the heater) it took almost a month to receive it from china (slow boat from china syndrome)

Ok thanks for the info Sandage.
In your experience is it worth the trouble to have it installed? I am concerned that if anything goes wrong with the car afterwards, Mitsubishi will blame the installation of the heater and not cover whatever repairs I may have to do.. Any thoughts ?

 

[sandange]

Ok thanks for the info Sandage.
In your experience is it worth the trouble to have it installed? I am concerned that if anything goes wrong with the car afterwards, Mitsubishi will blame the installation of the heater and not cover whatever repairs I may have to do.. Any thoughts ?

The unit is independent of the rest of the car other than using some 12v power to drive the fuel/circulating pump, control unit, and glow plug.

If you install it the way Dond, myself , and some others here have......
The install does not remove or alter the original equipment and is easily reversible.

It certainly makes a HUGE difference in the ev WINTER drive.
If you have gone through a winter up here in your EV using only the original heater & compare them. It is completely a different experience in the winter.

The complete cabin is warm so ALL of the passengers are comfortable.
Should you get caught in a bumper to bumper freezing rain conditions where you have to keep your wipers & heater on full just to keep it from icing over, you will appreciate this heater, as well as not worrying how much power you have left.

You will also appreciate that your range will not be drastically reduced if you have a longer trip planned.
I personally don't think I could go back to only the original heater unless there was a fast charger at every other corner. -
Even then the expense and extra time required for fast charging in the winter is very costly compared to the summer.
In my opinion - It is an investment to install but worth it for our climate conditions.

 

[jsantala]

In these vehicles in my opinion a fuel based heater is the difference between usable and unusable in the winter, if you have any.

 

[DonDakin]

I thought I would post some canion reading on coolant temp from the diesel and conventional heater.

The CANION image first section is from the electric heat on highest temp, the Second section was from another day with similar outdoor temps (3 Deg C) using the diesel heater.

It looks like the the electic heater on high brings the coolant up initially to 70 Deg C and does a good job of controlling
heater activation to keep the temp at 60 Deg C.

The diesel heater brings the temp up to 80 Deg C and controls to between 70 AND 80 Deg C much more loosely.

This puts some numbers on something that you can perceive in the cabin about the heat being hotter with the diesel heater.

http://imgur.com/YMagAaM

BTW I was also quick charging while I took the print screen.....

Don.....

 

[sandange]

Great info DonD
Thanks for sharing. Now there are some stats to refer to for the diesel heat performance.
I did include a photo of the diesel liquid heater kit From JP parking heaters in my slide show.
It's very clear and helps to visualize, the different components.

http://s211.photobucket.com/user/Sandange/slideshow/miev/Diesel Heater
I guess the idea is catching on
There is an EV auto dealer offering sales & installations of a diesel AIR heater for LEAF owners in Quebec,
for about $ 2,000 CAD.
he is a little out of the way , in Richmond, Estrie Quebec.

http://boutique.jnauto.com/Chaufferette-kerosene.php

 

[jsantala]

Not that I care much, but just to keep everyone aware of what they're buying - that chinese heater is actually a rip-off of an Eberspächer:

Anyhow, here's some temperature readings from my car with the Russian Binar 5C heater running on bioethanol (from biowaste):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByvQr0xaz6XOa3pMbFgzZk1mNTA/view

When CaniOn shows 50-60˚C the heater's own display shows 70-80˚C. It probably looses some heat on it's way to the electric heater. Especially since it's connected before the water tank, which probably is pretty good in radiating heat. I really should put some insulation on it.

The lower fluctuating value is when the electric heater is running at the first position up from neutral. Actually I usually keep it there most of the time and just start up the ethanol heater when I need more or I need to conserve all available electricity for driving.

 

[DonDakin]

Thanks for the link Sandy,

I knew someone would offer a fuel heater at one point.

I do find it really expensive and it looks like the "airtop" heater which heats and circulates air. It about 2 KW which is worst then the OEM heater. Our iMiev water heater is 5 KW on high.

I think if you installed an Airtop in our climate you would really be disappointed in the winter. But compared to no heat it's an improvement that's for sure. Makes me think that the coolant based heating in the imiev is a really fantastic solution. You have all the functionality of the OEM heater in terms of directing heat and you can even heat your battery as you cruise.

I don't have a screen shot but I think the OEM electric heater will heat the coolant (heatant) to 80 Deg C on L2 during preheat. So that's good.

Since the OEM heater sucks so much power when it's really cold I guess Mitsubishi set the high heat limit to 60 Deg C to kind of limit the range drop.

As an aside I have a second Imiev now and that one is completely stock as far as the heater is concerned. No diesel heater and no insulation of the heater unit below.

I use this car for the work commute of 25Km round trip. With the heat on full and the car preheated in the garage in the mornings. So far no heat issues. I even have a bonus of free workplace charging (for three years government program) this year which makes heating a non issue for this commute.

That being said I would not really want to drive this iMiev on any "adventures" in the winter. I reserve the one with the diesel heater for longer trips.


BTW jsantala I could not see your link. Maybe the problem is on my end....

You right that the Chinese heater is a copy of the Eberspächer it is however 1/3 the price and has been doing a good job so far.

Don......

 

[Don]

I think if you installed an Airtop in our climate you would really be disappointed in the winter. But compared to no heat it's an improvement that's for sure. Makes me think that the coolant based heating in the imiev is a really fantastic solution. You have all the functionality of the OEM heater in terms of directing heat and you can even heat your battery as you cruise.

I think the AirTop is your only choice for a Leaf - They don't have the heated water set-up like the iMiEV has. If you want/need a fuel heater, the OEM set-up in our cars makes it a really practical and easy conversion to do

Don

 

[DonDakin]

Hey Don,

I thought at least the early leafs had hot water heaters and even the newer ones that have a heat pump I believe have a second method to heat the car for temps below -10 deg C where Heat pumps kind of stop working. But I'm not a Leaf expert.

In any case it would suck to have an airtop with only 2 KW of heat up here. Perhaps farther south it's an option and in the end better then nothing. Maybe I'm just spoiled now....

Cheers

Don......

 

[jsantala]

I think the very first Leafs only had PTC air heater in place of the heater core, then some models had hot water heating, then it became heat pumps. I don't now what the base model now has. Apparently the e-NV200 version van doesn't have the heat pump at all. Edit: They only have direct air heating with PTC, so liquid heaters are not an option.

I'm sorta looking at cheap Leafs and I'd really want one with the liquid heat, so I could put an ethanol heater on it.