Upgrading the heating system to bioethanol or Diesel fuel

[sandange]

Thanks Stan -
Yes it's a 2014 - spoke to the heater vendor and they are sending a new timer switch in the mail.

nice installation! It'll be interested to hear your perspective once winter hits. Presumably the GHG emissions of that heater are still less than an ICE vehicle. :mrgreen:

Since we kept the original heater for everyday use...
The diesel heater will be used only in the extreme cold on my extended trips (95km each way, about once a week)
I imagine about 3 - 4 hours a week November through March.
The low setting uses .2 L of fuel per hour x 4 hrs = .8 Liters (about a quart) of diesel per week.


Just added a link to photo slide show for complete install.. - for those interested

http://s211.photobucket.com/user/Sandange/slideshow/miev/Diesel Heater

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[DonDakin]

Hey sandange

Good job on the install. I like the fuel tank.

My mini timer was defective also. They sent a new one but it took a month.

You can fire up the heater using the yellow and red control wires that goto the mini remote timer. If you short the yellow to the red wire in the bundle that normally plugs into the mini remote timer that will start the heater. As long as they are shorted the heater will run.

Don.....

 

[sandange]

Hey
If you short the yellow to the red wire in the bundle that normally plugs into the mini remote timer that will start the heater. As long as they are shorted the heater will run.

Don.....

Thanks DonD - I'll be able to give it a test run.

 

[sandange]

Houston we have ignition -

Thanks DonD - Got it fired up and running for about 5 minutes -all looks well.

Did you wire your timer to the ignition switch power - or battery direct - so it can run while parked & charging while preheating.

In the past I've been caught just short on range, sitting in the car, waiting in the cold (-20C) while charging.
Using the remote control OEM heater to preheat slows down the charging process considerably.

If wired independently - does the timer switch ( LED display) or heater unit, use any power - or does it time out and shut down?

 

[PV1]

Sandange, you could probably wire it to get power from the ignition. The i-MiEV allows you to have the key on and run items like the radio and fan, but no electric heat or AC. To use the remote, the key has to be off. So, if you are charging and want heat, you could fire up the fuel heater and run the fan with the key on. As long as the heater can circulate the water, you'll have heat. Just make sure to turn the temperature knob into the red before putting it on the green dot. There's a diverter in the air system so that air is directed to the AC evaporator if the knob was in the blue last, or to the heater core if it was in the red last.

On our coldest day last winter, I parked the car in the heated garage at work and left the fan on full, pushing warm ambient air into the battery while leaving the front doors open slightly so the entire car would warm up, all while charging.

Remote preheating, how were you planning to accomplish that?

 

[sandange]

If while charging & sitting in the car, I use the remote control to activate defrost the - OEM heater kicks in and the rear window/ mirror defrost are activated - while this is in progress - if I turn the key to accessories - all heating & defrost shuts down.

Now if all this is in progress and I use the diesel heater to heat the glycol ( Powered from the battery direct without turning on the accessories switch)
Hopefully the rest will still operate and the OEM heater's thermostat should shut down the oem heating element once it senses the glycol temperature is hot enough.

 

[PV1]

If you're sitting in the car, you wouldn't have to mess with the remote, since you can run the fan with the controls on the dash while charging. The key will be on to do this, so the diesel heater will have power no matter how it's wired. You can even listen to the radio!

If you are preheating the car before going out to it, the car would most likely have a full charge, so using electric preheat wouldn't run it down if you use level 2.

It would make sense that the electric heat is turned down (or off) as long as the loop is warm enough.

 

[sandange]

My line of though was not to have the car in the on position ( where all the warning lights light up) Never checked if the car still charges or how much power it uses when in that position.

In the accessories position (first click where the radio works) the OEM heater fan does not go on.

I think I would prefer to have the Diesel heater with an independent electrical tie in system.
The diesel heater does have an option to wire up to the OEM heater blower control but that could get complicated. Might consider this in the future.

My main concern is keeping warm & charging as fast as possible, putting all the power to charging.
Where I've been in a situation -(usually late at night on the way home running short of range)
Where I am at a charge station that has no other facilities (restaurant , coffee shop near by for me to warm up in) or late at night where they are already closed and I need 1/2- 3/4hr charge to get home)

 

[jaraczs]

Sandange,
PV1 is right. When you charge and turn the key, the power consumption by the system is very low so you are not making significant compromise. The important thing is that you can operate the blower.
Now, when you wire your diesel heater, it has to be permanently connected to your 12V battery, which I think you did. The switch (or minitimer) has its own wires that are not meant to be connected to ignition switch. So, when you need to turn the heater on, you connect the yellow and red as DonD adviced. The minitimer (when you get replacement) will do it for you as well. And you can run the heater independently of your ignition key position. You do not need that key at all. The problem is - if you do not release the heat from the heater core, the system will shut down in as early as 4 minutes, depending on initial temperature. That is why you need to turn the ignition key and operate the fan.

Btw, I would like to figure your concept of the valve behind the reservoire. Is it preventing the fluid to enter diesel heater when you operate the PTC heater?

Thanks, Stan

 

[PV1]

When you charge and turn the key, the power consumption by the system is very low so you are not making significant compromise.

Agreed. I doubt having the key on vs. off when charging will even make a difference. The major 12 volt draws are engaged either way when charging (contactors, DC-DC converter, coolant pump). The key would only light up the gauges and power the radio and fan.

 

[sandange]

Yes agreed
So there are 2 options to extract the heat and activate the blower while charging
With the key in the on position
activating the preheat/defrost function with the remote.

As for Powering the diesel heater
I have wire up the heater as the instructions have shown
Fuse box direct to battery.
Since the timer switch is defective I jumped the yellow and red wires to test it, & have some questions as to how it functions.
Does the LCD screen display stay on 24/7 or does it time out?

My question about powering the heater from the ignition switch was a saftey concern.
My granddaughter was playing in our car and afterward I found all the controls had been moved and the emergency lights were on.
How easy is it to turn on the heater with the mini timer?

 

[DonDakin]

Hi guys,

I concur with last few posts you guys got the details right.

Sandange congrats of getting the unit fired up. Just in time for the change of weather.

The mini timer has a clock in it but it goes dark after a short timeout. I did not measure the current draw of the unit but I guess it's pretty small. I'll pit it on my to do list.

I think having a way to disable the heater with a master 12 v switch is a good idea. I don't have that now but it could guard against accidental activation.

Th startup/shutdown ~5 minute sequence is kind of long compared to the instant electric heat. So you need the unit powered for while after you start shutdown.

For sure if a child gets in there and presses buttons they would likely start the heater. Worst case would be that happening in the garage.... I would set the default heater time to 1 minute to guard against that easy to do in the setup but a valid concern.

I don't think it's a good idea to put it on the ignition switch. Another dedicated switch in the cabin or perhaps one just beside the positive battery post might do the trick.

Sandange how well does the one way valve work ? Can you do a test ? Start the electric heat and see if the diesel heater warms up. I did not put mine in but it's a good idea if it works well.

Don.....

 

[sandange]

Thanks DonD for the timers details


Yes my thoughts too - to add a secondary switch to the timer for safety hidden away elsewhere

I haven't had a chance to evaluate how well this plumbing set up works but will soon do some more testing.

Here is how I plumbed the supplied 1 way valve -
see the one way valve photo
the idea is that with the diesel heater off -
Flow is the path of least resistance for the stock heater -by passes the diesel heater

http://s211.photobucket.com/user/Sandange/slideshow/miev/Diesel Heater

With the diesel heater On
The more powerful circulating pump creates suction on the in pipe
and more pressure on the out pipe activating the one way valve and feeding on to the reservoir.

 

[sandange]

New timer Arrived
It's now installed and all seems to function correctly.
I did wire in a secondary switch tied in to the yellow wire for the timer.

I located the switch down in front of the shifter where they have a couple of slots to accommodate switches.
Since I have a 2014 model one of the slots has the passenger side seat heater switch. I went to Mitsubishi to price a switch but at $ 85 -no thanks.
I went to the local electronic supply house and got one that fits in the slot for $2

Observation of the 1 way valve

I ran the original heater only from a cold start for 7-8 minutes on max.

After 3 minutes
I felt the temperature of the return pipe where it enters at the back of the reservoir and it was hot.
The deisel heater return and feed pipes were cool

After 7-8 minutes
The temperature of the return pipe where it enters at the back of the reservoir was very hot.
The deisel heater return and feed pipes were warmer the closer you got to the double T junction and cooler the further you went away from it.

This makes me think that there is little if any circulation through the Deisel heater but there certainly is heat transfer within the liquid glycol.

 

[jaraczs]

I felt the temperature of the return pipe where it enters at the back of the reservoir and it was hot.
The diesel heater return and feed pipes were cool.

This is a great news and helps to evolve the heating system modification for our cars.
Could you please share the details where you got the 1-way valve (brand/part #) and the brand/part # of the $2 switch?

The partial heat exchange into the diesel heater after 7-8 minutes is OK in my opinion. You would have to implement more valves to fix it and it would not be worth it. After all, the PTC heater in this setup is good for preheating only and for use in enclosed areas.

 

[sandange]

The double T with the one way valve assembly was part of the Diesel heater kit

The switch was from our local electronic supplies , Made in China, he had a bin full of them,
I removed the switch slot cover and brought it with me to size up a switch.

 

[jaraczs]

Thanks, Sandange, for the images. I did not have the one way valve assembly in my heater kit.

 

[DonDakin]

Well I installed the one way valve with kind of disappointing results.

When I run the electric heat the diesel heater does warm up a lot. I guess there is less heat transfer with the valve in place then when both heaters are in series which was the case before adding the valve but it's still not optimal and I wonder if it's worth the added plumbing and complexity, it's a tight area to jam the T value into.

Well it's done at least. I guess I will think about adding a valve to completely control the flow a little later on. My goal would be to bypass the diesel heater loop with an electric valve and switch or a Manual valve and a cable to the interior of the car.


I posted some numbers of heater consumption somewhere on the forum for last winter. I'll try to compare with this winter to see if I can quantify how much less efficient the electric heater is with it's big brother diesel heater installed alongside.

Don.....

 

[sandange]

Hi DonDakin
How long did you run the heater?
I shut down before it heat up full.
I was trying to trace how the heat would travel - and establish if there was circulation through the diesel heater.
Eventually there is heat transfer through the fluid , - circulation or not.

When I tested, I found the heat was working its way from the T connectors and moving towards the Diesel heater unit on both feed and return pipes - (cooler as you got closer to the diesel heater core), and
did not heat up in the order of active circulation - up the in pipe and work its way out the exit pipe.
I guess that's as good as it gets with out major investing.
After a stretch of heating with the electric heater on, all would certainly get hot.

 

[DonDakin]

Hi sandy,

I ran the electric heat for about 10 min or so on high with the fan on max. Loads of heat coming to in the car but the diesel heater did also heat up.

Not a big deal I guess. Like I said maybe if I get motivated I will add another valve In there since I started down this road.....


Funny that we both have heaters and the weather is amazing eh ?


Don....